Please Help a Noob!

G'Day All,

My name's Ron and this is my first post in here after joining a week ago. I must say it is such a great and helpful online forum for property investors in Oz and elsewhere.

Let me introduce myself. I am a single 34yo male from Parramatta NSW, and work fultime as an architect in Sydney CBD. I am currently sharing a place with a dude for $170p/w and have racked up $200k for my first investment property.

I have read Robert Kiyosaki's fab books 'Rich Dad Poor Dad', 'Cashflow Quadrant', 'Rich Dad's Guide to Investing' and Steve Mcknight's '0-130 Properties in 3.5 Years'. So basically now my mindset has changed for the better and I now realize that to get rich I need to shift from an employee to a business person or investor. Else I remain a slave to the system as currently and as with 90%? of the global population.

I have now sort of convinced myself that property investing is what I am more in touch with from the heart and that is what I want to take up. I would say I am quite a good saver and I would like to go down the positive cashflow path with capital gains a bonus if it happens. But my focus is on cheap (for starters) +ve cashflow properties in Sydney and its outer fringes.

As I have basically have nos experience whatsoever in this game, please allow me to bombard you guys with questions..:D

I realize +ve cashflow property is next to impossible to find in Syd, hence my idea is to buy a 4 or 5 bedder with generous land space and convert that to two flats with the addition/removal of a few walls, toilet, sink etc. Then build a 1/2 bedroom granny flat at the back and rent the whole property out while I stay in my current arrangement of sharing. Is this an okay plan??

The areas I am looking at is Mt Druitt and surrounds like Rooty Hill, St Marys etc. I would like my first and subsequent properties to be close to each other and along the western train line. Now I know these aren't 'good' areas at all, but thats where I can find these kind of properties for cheap.
Any warnings / recommendations anyone? What should I look out for? Will I get okay tenants there or the rough type who will make a mess of the place and not pay rent etc. Anyone with experience?? I have also considered as my second option the Southwest corridor like Minto, Ingleburn, Macquarie Fields, I know Warwick Farm is also cheap, are these no-go zones and why?

Next is loan type - should I go Principal only or Principal plus Interest?? Is it better to invest a large 150k deposit and let the tenants pay the rest ( I am looking in the 200-300k price range , the cheaper the better as I HATE debt, never had any) OR should I pay a min deposit hence more debt and more time to pay, but it will then be positive cashflow. What is a better plan taking into account my scenario and goals of cashflow cashflow and cashflow??

Which lenders should I consider - among the cheapest interest rate (I hate the big four greedy banks), low exit fees, minimal fees, least expensive overall in long run considering all fees -- I know this is not an easy question as everyones situation is different but please just give me a few 3-5? places to choose from and I will research further..

Finally what else should I consider and is this plan ok? I'm an architect so dividing the property into flats, adding a granny flat etc should be no hassle, but I dont know how these go with the council as I havent done this sort of thing before. What are the rough costs of doing this ( I know building a gran. flat is around 50-65k for a basic 2 bedder?), but what about a rough cost for dividing a 4 bedder into 2X2 bed flats?? How are the councils with this idea, anything to watch out for etc?

I know I sound like a total noob :D, but its better to be prepared than burnt isnt it? Is my strategy ok and what other strategies should I look at?? I know theres way more chances to find better value cashflow properties in the regional areas, but let me try my Sydney plan initially as I am not confident with investing far from my location at the moment considering I have no experience, its just so hard to imagine how you guys are sitting behind the computer, clicking and buying property after property at such a rapid rate all over the country as if they were apples at woolies !! How you manage so many properties, the massive debt, tenants, headaches - all from a distant location...:eek:

Anyways I guess I have asked too many questions and am hoping some kind people will show me a bit of light. Thanks very much for reading and have a great night..
 
welcome

200 in savings is sensational

In general, after 12 years helping folks into the right loan structures

usually Interest only, and borrow the "max u can that works for you" with 100 % offset

lots of variations of course

ta
rolf
 
Your strategy seems fine as long as you buy the properties for good prices. As for the finance part of things - what rolf said above is a good general guide. Borrow as much as you can, chuck excess savings into the offset account and grow your portfolio when you get a better paying job / increase equity.
 
There are a number of threads about NSW new (2010) RTA, mean evil & complicated, and will be the rules of the game you trade in.

a recent one yesterday, http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75394 that anyone would think should be a simple thing between two cosigning consenting adults, could be nasty (to the LL the tenant has more than enuf people to look after them) due to the provisions of NSW RTA.

This link http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/maintop/view/inforce/act+42+2010+cd+0+N is the relevant NSW RTA, ya got to learn it, if you have a PM the pm got to demonstrate they know it, as the LL is still liable and responsible,

there is an assumption of malfeasance
there are unreasonable penalties for illogical offences
 
Sounds like you have your head screwed on the right way!!

One tip; you hate debt and the big banks? You'll definitely want to change those views :)

Good luck.
 
Thanks for the replies and helpful hints guys, I also have in mind that I NEED to get properties below market value if I can, now how do I do this - keep a watchful eye online on domain and realestate.com.au?? Throw offers around and wait to get lucky?? Mortgagee sales I heard are hard/impossible to find.

So why are you guys suggesting interest only and using a low deposit and higher loan as that will cost a LOT more in long run and take longer to pay/larger debt? My understanding is due to the +cashflow I'm seeking and also the extra money sitting in my offset account earns interest but never enough to counter the interest I will paying on the loan. So does it really make sense??

What about the areas I'm looking at - potential 'war zones'/ghettoes etc??
 
If you sink all your money in the one property - you will only have one or two properties!

By using interest only you have better cashflow - and the debt is tax deductible.

By having a low deposit (where you can still achieve cashflow positive/neutral assets - i.e. buy for $200k and rent for $330 p/w) you can afford to buy more properties. You will have more debt but if you are buying in areas where the property is paying for itself, paying below market value prices and in areas where there are good prospects (i.e. infrastructure spending, population growth, diversity of industry etc...) then the prices should go up over time.

You will then be exposed to say 10 properties going up in value rather than 1 or 2 - and this will mean much greater long term profits.

What you can also do after the properties go up in value is refinance the mortgage and use the equity to buy more - so it is a snowball effect.

So take the example:

1: 200k property - 100k deposit
2: 200k property - 100k deposit

Both double in 10 years for example. Now in this example you should be very positively geared - but this is not the optimal use of your money.

Net worth after 10 years = 600k (800k assets, 200k liability.)

Example 2:

Property X 10: 200k properties - 20k deposit each

After 10 years, assets = 4M and liability = 1.8M - so net assets = $2.2M

You've made a lot more money this way (and you should be able to make more than this if you choose the right areas too - and also if you continue to refinance you should have more properties by then.)

Also, they should all be positive geared by then too so you will have income coming in as well.

With buying below market value - you can make heaps of offers or watch for the houses which have been mispriced (i.e. undervalued) - then pounce!

Although there aren't too many mortgagee sales - there are lots of sellers who want out quick - this is just as good as a mortgagee sale. You've just got to look hard.

Devise a strategy you are comfortable with first though - it is no use finding a great house for a great price then putting half your money down as a deposit. This will hurt you in the long term if you are looking to build a substantial portfolio.

And although you may not like the idea of going 90-95% LVR - if you are buying 20% below market value - the effective LVR is 75% or so!

Hope I've helped,
James
 
Perhaps you might try searching the forum for posts by Skater, Bargain Hunter and Sash.

They have quite a bit of experience in the general areas that you are talking about so you might pick up a few tips there.
 
I realize +ve cashflow property is next to impossible to find in Syd, hence my idea is to buy a 4 or 5 bedder with generous land space and convert that to two flats with the addition/removal of a few walls, toilet, sink etc. Then build a 1/2 bedroom granny flat at the back and rent the whole property out while I stay in my current arrangement of sharing. Is this an okay plan??
In a word, no. While it's fine to put a Granny Flat on the back of a lot, you will probably find that Councils won't want you to do that in addition to changing a home into a couple of units.

The areas I am looking at is Mt Druitt and surrounds like Rooty Hill, St Marys etc. I would like my first and subsequent properties to be close to each other and along the western train line. Now I know these aren't 'good' areas at all, but thats where I can find these kind of properties for cheap.
Any warnings / recommendations anyone? What should I look out for? Will I get okay tenants there or the rough type who will make a mess of the place and not pay rent etc. Anyone with experience??
Go to the potential properties at different times of the day. See what the wildlife (um....little darlings) are up to. If you are looking in an area that has a lot of interesting, usually younger, people walking the streets day & night and the homes are trashed, then it's probably not a good area. By the same token, if the street you are looking in has nicely kept homes, then you shouldn't have too much trouble.

The midget minds of the area mostly don't seem to wander far from home. You can have one street that you'd want to stay away from, while the next one is fine, so look, street by street.

As for quality of tenants, well, you get good ones & you get bad ones. Have a good PM and always have Landlord Insurance. If your PM knows what they are doing, they should keep the tenants up to date with everything and let you know what is happening.
 
Perhaps you might try searching the forum for posts by Skater, Bargain Hunter and Sash.

They have quite a bit of experience in the general areas that you are talking about so you might pick up a few tips there.

Sash doesn't buy in any of those areas.

Puting your money into an offset account will give you the same interest as if you paid a higher deposit except the money is in your control.
As mentioned earlier- hating debt will not get you far in any investment game.

For cashflow the west/south west is great. Look for distressed sales or places where you can add value (eg reno).

Is the reason you want cashflow over CG the fact that you hate debt?

Sounds like you are off to a good start. Keep asking questions as you go.
 
Hi all thanks for your good suggestions...:)

I have just started reading 'Property Prosper Retire' by Kevin Young, a local.
Just reading through his completely different strategy from Steve McKnight (0-130 Properties in 3.5 Years) and Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad Poor Dad).

Kevin's Strategy:

Buy one IP every year for 7 years. (New or almost new for CG in prime good growth areas yada yada)

On the 8th year (expecting property values to almost double after 7 years - (a far-out expectation???), you withdraw equity from the first IP as a tax free loan and live a good life for a year on that equity.

On the 9th year you withdraw equity from the 2nd IP and enjoy that for a year.

And so on - till the 14th year, you withdraw from IP #7.

Then back to IP #1 on the 15th year, which will by then have doubled on the 2nd cycle.


So you basically ever increase your debts tenfold (how does it get paid, by the tenants?) but enjoy a good life each year after 7 initial years of investing - which would otherwise take far too long with the positive cashflow/multiple properties model of Steve McKnight. Too many properties to acquire a measly but guaranteed positive cashflow.

So what do you guys think of Kevin Young's model of living off equity?? I think it is dangerous when theres a prolonged crash etc.. Please start the debate of both models.

I am personally looking for an okay NET income of say $1500-2000 a week without doing anything, LESS IPs to manage, less debt of course (impossible with Kevin's model) and a mixture of +ve cashflow and capital gain.. All IPs to be in Sydney. At the moment just reading diff strategies and trying to get my somewhat empty head around where to start, what model to follow..:D

Please advise on the pros and cons of both and give suggestions if you can, would be vey much appreciated.;)
 
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