Please help ... with dodgy seller

[RedApple]

Hi,

I've just purchased a property in WA due to settle now. After building inspection we found a few items that need to be fixed and the vendor agreed in writing that he'll get them rectified by settlement. Also on the contract we both signed that all appliances are to be fully functional at settlement.

Now the vendor is saying he's not giong to fix them. Smoke alarm, rdc and air cond are all torn\broken, incomplete paint jobs etc yet he's saying take it as it is or he'll charge interest if we don't settle. Property price in the area has gone up since we signed the contract and he's beeing trying to get me to pull out of the contract. (I paid market price at the time, not the best deal but didn't have much choice then.)

We've tried to negociate holding a bit of money back to pay for trades people to fix up the defects but he says NO. Even the sales agent thinks that the vendor is being very dodgy, not just to me but also to another buyer that he's selling another property to.

Please help. What to do in this case ?? I want to settle but also claim back the repair cost that I'll have to hire trades people to fix the stuff he was supposed to do.


Thanks!!!

 

[thatbum]

Firstly what does your settlement agent or lawyer say? I'm hoping its a lawyer.

Interesting claim from the seller that they will charge you interest when it is actually them in default under the sale contract.

Anyway, check with your lawyer hopefully, who actually has the sale paperwork - but I imagine your options are to settle and sue for the cost to fix the things promised by the seller later - or to refuse to settle and give them reasonable time to fix the problems.

 

[Bats]

The vendor certifies that the property will be fitted with RCD's and smoke alarms at settlement and he/she can be prosecuted should they settle without complying (I think by FESA).
Your settlement agent/lawyer should be on top on this.
As regards to the other matters, have your settlement agent/lawyer serve notice that the defects need to be rectified prior to the settlement or you will be charging them penalty interest (after the 3 day period of grace).

Please let us know what transpires.

 

[RedApple]

Hi thatbum, my conveyancer isn't a lawyer and she can't give me legal advises. I've been offering them time to fix the problems (even with no interest charged for the delay) but he's adament that he's not going to fix them or pay for the cost.

His settlement agent asked my property manager for the repair quotes to subtract from the settlement amount but he instructed them not to pay for anything.

The sales agent is trying to speak to his boss about this as this vendor is doing the dodgy thing to 2 buyers (I'm one of them)

Never met anyone so dodgy like this.

Is there any good WA property lawyers on this forum that anyone could reccomend ...please !!!!

 

[RedApple]

Hi Bats,

The sales agent and I have been speaking with the vendor about the defects and he agreed to fixing them in writing prior to the contract going unconditional. We've been tryign to follow up on this matter prior to settlement with him but his response now is a flat NO. Currently not taking any any calls or responding to text mesages from the sales agent or me.

My conveyancer says she will issue them notice that we will not settle unless they comply.
(at least with the RCD, Smoke alarm & electrical appliances etc..)

The vendor certifies that the property will be fitted with RCD's and smoke alarms at settlement and he/she can be prosecuted should they settle without complying (I think by FESA).
Your settlement agent/lawyer should be on top on this.
As regards to the other matters, have your settlement agent/lawyer serve notice that the defects need to be rectified prior to the settlement or you will be charging them penalty interest (after the 3 day period of grace).

Please let us know what transpires.

 

[thatbum]

If you're serious about this transaction, I think its time to get a lawyer in asap.

 

[Terry_w]

Hi thatbum, my conveyancer isn't a lawyer and she can't give me legal advises.

Why on earth would you have used such a person in the first place?

 

[DaveM]

Why on earth would you have used such a person in the first place?

Because people are happy to shell out hundreds of thousands on houses, but believe $1000-1500 for quality legal representation to facilitate said hundreds of thousands of dollars transaction is too expensive. After all, isnt it just "shuffling some papers" and "stamping some forms"???

 

[lizzie]

Why on earth would you have used such a person in the first place?

Because my conveyancer does nothing but property transactions every day - for the last 30+ years - and knows a heck of a lot more about such, and seen every variable possible, than any lawyer I've met.

... and he wouldn't have let it get within cooee of this situation - settlement demand would have been sent on day 1 and the process started

 

[Terry_w]

Because my conveyancer does nothing but property transactions every day - for the last 30+ years - and knows a heck of a lot more about such, and seen every variable possible, than any lawyer I've met.

... and he wouldn't have let it get within cooee of this situation - settlement demand would have been sent on day 1 and the process started

But can your conveyancer help when things go wrong? Does/can your conveyancer advise on related issues which pop up?

 

[HotRod]

By law there must be a certificate certifying that RCDs/Hard wired smoke detectors are in working order and this is done by the seller.

If he cannot provide this certification then he is at default, not you.

Also, most contracts would state something to effect that all electrical stuff (ACs, dishwashers, HWSs etc) will be in working order.

Again, this is up to the seller. If he is stating he is not doing it, again he is t default, not you.

Get you settlement agent to prep a letter stating you are ready and willing to proceed to settlement subject to the outstanding matters that the seller is at default and you reserve your right to charge interest.

Do this ASAP.

 

[Tigerboy]

But can your conveyancer help when things go wrong? Does/can your conveyancer advise on related issues which pop up?

I agree with TerryW why use conveyancing clerks? They are form fillers that pass the buck when the going gets tough.

In relation to the vendor, I would say that if you do 'settle' you'll have very little recourse later. You need to sort it out prior.

 

[cu@thetop]

Because people are happy to shell out hundreds of thousands on houses, but believe $1000-1500 for quality legal representation to facilitate said hundreds of thousands of dollars transaction is too expensive. After all, isnt it just "shuffling some papers" and "stamping some forms"???

So true. In fact some clients seem annoyed that the lawyer has the temerity to ask to be paid. How many times I used to get "we want to use you but conveyancing works are cheaper...if you drop your price we will go with you".Good luck. I even get people wanting my office to witness signatures (at no charge) who use conveyancing works (to save money) but don't want to travel to the CBD and pay parking.

I agree with TerryW why use conveyancing clerks? They are form fillers that pass the buck when the going gets tough.

In relation to the vendor, I would say that if you do 'settle' you'll have very little recourse later. You need to sort it out prior.

In Qld anyway, gotta be careful trying to hold up settlement on non essential terms. Maybe settle under protest then advise agent not to release full deposit to seller as it is under dispue.

 

[Terry_w]

But the thing is that using a solicitor is often cheaper than a conveyancer, or at worst, a few hundred more.

 

[RedApple]

Thanks Thatbum, any lawyer in WA you could reccommend ?

If you're serious about this transaction, I think its time to get a lawyer in asap.

 

[RedApple]

Hi Terry,

I had no idea that such a sticky issue would be encountered. I have used both conveyancers and lawyers in the past but didn't see too many differences. The previous transactions all went smoothly where sellers honoured our contract agreements and didn't pull any dirty tricks.

Why on earth would you have used such a person in the first place?

 

[RedApple]

DaveM,

Correct. I have paid more for lawyers to do conveyancing for my previous purchases but in the end have found that the conveyancers were a tad more efficient and easier to reach when I needed them. Then again, I never encountered any sellers who lie, cheat and pull dirty tricks for their own gain at the expense of others.

I'm not alone with the bad luck. The sales agent says this vendor just did a dodgy thing with another buyer who has just pulled out prior to the contract going unconditional, demanding an extra $20k for no apparent reasons. The agent says they'd sue him to get their commisssion back if I also pull out as well and would not want anything to do with this guy again.

Because people are happy to shell out hundreds of thousands on houses, but believe $1000-1500 for quality legal representation to facilitate said hundreds of thousands of dollars transaction is too expensive. After all, isnt it just "shuffling some papers" and "stamping some forms"???

 

[RedApple]

Lizzie, is your conveyancer in WA by any chance. Would you please share her\his name so I could use their service too ?

Thanks

Because my conveyancer does nothing but property transactions every day - for the last 30+ years - and knows a heck of a lot more about such, and seen every variable possible, than any lawyer I've met.

... and he wouldn't have let it get within cooee of this situation - settlement demand would have been sent on day 1 and the process started

 

[RedApple]

oh thank you so much HotRod for the great piece of info. I've been trying to get an electrician to produce a report which confirms RCDs\smoke detectors are not functional in order to just move things forward. Didn't know it was the seller's responsibility to provide such report.

My conveyancer is OK with the conveyancing stuff but are absolute useless in this sticky situation. Can only say they await my instruction and would not even reccommend a laywer due to the risk of loosing their business to a potential competitior

I bought sight unseen from interstate hence feel so drained and desperate in this situation and just wanted to pull out to end the nightmare, which is what the seller wants

You're right on the electrical stuff. Contract annexure B has the owner's warranty that electrical devices are in working order. My property manager and the tenants confirm some items are not while the seller is saying they are from his perspective can't believe how some people could be so dreaful.

By law there must be a certificate certifying that RCDs/Hard wired smoke detectors are in working order and this is done by the seller.

If he cannot provide this certification then he is at default, not you.

Also, most contracts would state something to effect that all electrical stuff (ACs, dishwashers, HWSs etc) will be in working order.

Again, this is up to the seller. If he is stating he is not doing it, again he is t default, not you.

Get you settlement agent to prep a letter stating you are ready and willing to proceed to settlement subject to the outstanding matters that the seller is at default and you reserve your right to charge interest.

Do this ASAP.

 

[RedApple]

Hi Tigerboy, do you have any good settlement lawyers in WA that you would reccomend ?

Thank you

I agree with TerryW why use conveyancing clerks? They are form fillers that pass the buck when the going gets tough.

In relation to the vendor, I would say that if you do 'settle' you'll have very little recourse later. You need to sort it out prior.