Plumbing Problem - Septic System

[battler]

2. Installed new leach drains

Bob, it appears the leach drains have been replaced in the last 12 months, so these should be ok.

I reckon it's got a "crust" across the top blocking the outlet....needs pumping out.

Minx, can you speed them along a bit please.......I'm REEEEAAALY bustin!

 

[Minxdamanx]

Just a quick update...

Plumber did go yesterday to unblock toilet, but no report as yet as he has not dropped his job card into the office. I've left a message for them to give me a call.

Plumbers' board can't help - not their role - 'madam, this is a maintenance issue, call your plumber'. Well duh!

PM who was ringing another plumber for their advice hasn't done so yet (too busy) so no help there as yet either.

We shall see

 

[battler]

Bit of info here, I think it's refering to sewer, but basically the same up to the tank.


http://www.renovateforum.com/f78/sewage-blocked-again-75309/

 

[Minxdamanx]

Thank you for the link.

That forum looks interesting for all sorts of reasons!

 

[RumpledElf]

My place came with a HIA (improvement order) for substandard housing. One of the (many) issues was the toilet was backing up and the septic tank was a health hazard or something equally scarey sounding. The current order has no such scariness on it.

Dunno exactly what they did between that first order and the current one but the line from the house to the septic tank has been completely replaced with new pipe, new inspection points etc, and we have zero issues now. You might need to do the same thing.

What is most annoying is we have to dig up this perfectly working, brand new septic tank and move it 2 @#$*ing metres to the left because the pipes are 20cm over our proposed new boundary

On the upside, because it was so recent, trenching down to the existing pipes is very easy ... the soil is nice and soft.

 

[Minxdamanx]

Another update.

I have spoken to the senior plumber who has reviewed the job p) done yesterday.

1) tank good. No need to pump.
2) roots - no, pipe has all been replaced. No terracotta sections left - all PVC with no roots.
3) Air isn't a problem, new pipe was installed when they replaced all the other pipe.
4) Toilet fine, no issue there. Flush volume sufficient.
5) Problem (in his opinion) - is the tenant - too much paper - only flushing periodically. System clogged with paper.

So I am back to square one. Tenant has already been sent a letter about this as this was what the plumber said last time.

So .... don't know what to do - still. Will ask PM to reiterate to tenant, but I'm sure I'll get another phone call in another few weeks.

 

[Minxdamanx]

Dunno exactly what they did between that first order and the current one but the line from the house to the septic tank has been completely replaced with new pipe, new inspection points etc, and we have zero issues now. You might need to do the same thing.

Thanks Elf, but aleady have done this.

 

[battler]

5) Problem (in his opinion) - is the tenant - too much paper - only flushing periodically. System clogged with paper.

So I am back to square one. Tenant has already been sent a letter about this as this was what the plumber said last time.

I would get a written report from the plumber stating that the system is in good working condition, including what work has been done and his opinion of what is causing the problem.

I would have the agent give this to the tenant and educate them in the use of an internal toilet and that they will have to pay for any further repairs to this system caused by operator error.

Jeepas, do we have to hold their hand?

 

[Minxdamanx]

I would get a written report from the plumber stating that the system is in good working condition, including what work has been done and his opinion of what is causing the problem.

I would have the agent give this to the tenant and educate them in the use of an internal toilet and that they will have to pay for any further repairs to this system caused by operator error.

Jeepas, do we have to hold their hand?

Battler, tenant had a letter from the PM last month stating just that, they objected strenuously and threatened to take the PM/me to court for umm, actually I don't know what for....making them feel stupid perhaps.

But... that's a great idea about a report from the plumber. I'll organise this when I can speak to him on Monday and make sure a copy goes to the tenant.

God knows where we stand legally on this.

Dazz are you out there? Anyone?

You have no idea how sick I am of this problem - as I'm sure is everyone else!

 

[craigb]

the fall has been checked from one end has this been done over the entire pipe, if it has the correct fall start end and has droped /fallen in the center, depending on the length, this would hold 6 wks worth of efluent, then its cleaned out, and untill somthing stops the flow, and dries it starts again, ???
just guessing here? good luck.

 

[AlmostBob]

Tenant...
Should have guessed the problem from the start

Dumb is the standard

 

[Minxdamanx]

the fall has been checked from one end has this been done over the entire pipe, if it has the correct fall start end and has droped /fallen in the center, depending on the length, this would hold 6 wks worth of efluent, then its cleaned out, and untill somthing stops the flow, and dries it starts again, ???
just guessing here? good luck.

Thanks Craig,

The plumber says that all piping has been replaced and the fall re-gauged. I have decided to get another (last, hopefully) plumber out to review the work done and give me his opinion. I will wait though until the next problem, I think as there is no point spending more money if I don't have to.

Tenant...
Should have guessed the problem from the start

Dumb is the standard

Surely Bob even the dumbest tenant knows how to use a toilet? I can't help wondering if something is being missed. I'm just not sure anymore and really don't want to be issuing notices to a tenant when there IS a problem that someone is missing.

 

[AlmostBob]

Naah, blame the tenant, especially if they didnt do it,

 

[Dazz]

Hi minx,


We had this trouble in one of our IP's about 4 years ago. It was a 1960's brick and tile house, formerly on septic tanks and leach drain. During the first Tenancy, the Tenants were continually complaining about blocked toilet etc etc. We sent plumbers out there every 4 or so weeks when the toilet was blocked, at a cost of $ 160 per turn up.


What did we do to rectify the situation ??


1. Asked the plumber the mechanism of blockage - answer - the Tenant was using too much toilet paper, and not flushing every time. That is, great wads of paper were being left after a wee, then another wee, then another wee, then finally a poo before someone pressed the button. The whole soggy stodge slowly crept down and formed a perfect barrier for other stuff - mostly tampons and more paper - to back up. Notice the "every 4 weeks".


2. We then asked how the plumber fixed the problem each time. "Too easy mate - I just got my plunger, gave it a few plunges and she came free every time....no resistance at all." We then asked did you have to use the spirally little tool - any roots perhaps. "Nope, just paper and heaps of tampons."


3. We then had a face to face meeting with the Tenants (brought the wife along for this one, me for the "Now look here" nonsense and the wife cos we were forced to discuss girly bits. We had to literally go through the motions with them.


4. Fortunately there was a big enough age gap between us that they respected our opinion and mature enough that they didn't get all ****ty and start jumping up and down and affronted.


5. We bought them a $ 6.95 plunger and instructed them on how to use it.


6. On subsequent Leases with the same Tenants, we have put a provision on the special conditions of the Lease to impose a degree of onus upon the Tenant.

Something along these lines : "The TENANT shall be responsible for repairing all minor wear and tear items during the term of the Lease. These include, but are not limited to light bulbs, tap washers and toilet blockages."


If push came to shove, and this went to tribunal, I would have zero power as none of this is covered in the RTA. It's in the Landlord's lap 100% of the way. An example of tip-toeing thru the tulips cos the Law is against you.


7. That was back in mid-2005 and we haven't heard from them since or had any trouble. The wife, on her last inspection, noted that the plunger was still there, and they still use it occassionally - every 4 weeks apparently. Apparently three quick plunges and everything is good to go. Takes them less than 10 seconds and nil cost to us.


Unfortunately Minxy, this type of asset attracts this type of problem, and sometimes to protect your cashflows, you need to swim in and amongst their very very very private lives. If they won't let you, or scream and holler that you are invading their privacy, you will be going out the back door cashflow wise....as you have noticed.


You will also note that the time of the incident was also about the time I stopped buying these types of assets. This reason above was one of about 30.


I believe you will need to get involved personally with talking with them. Your hubby and PM are useless in this regard.

 

[Pushka]

We had to literally go through the motions with them. .

Hell Dazz, that is taking it to extremes!

But all good advice!

Sounds a genuinely revolting way to live - what was the kitchen like?

 

[HiEquity]

We have a septic system in our PPOR. It started blocking up one day and we got a few different plumbers in to take a look. Opinions on the cause, cost and best method to fix varied widely. One plumber said the tank didn't need emptying - it was fine etc. Another said it was completely full and needed to be emptied ASAP. One quote was circa $5k, another was just over $2k to install all new leach drains and empty the tank (what we ended up doing which fixed the problem completely). Had to rip up the paving as well...

We are caught with the same cessation of the infill sewage program!

Ours actually had a number of new and old tanks and trees had invaded some etc so it wasn't easy to diagnose the problem. We are quite reasonable with our paper use IMO so that wasn't it...

I can only recommend getting a second opinion from a different plumbing company if you have reason to doubt them. I have discovered plumbers just haven't had enough experience with septics and it was a specific septic tank (emptying) company who knew what was really required and could do it way cheaper. We are very happy with the result anyway...

By the way, with what we have saved on deep sewage costs on this property, this cost to fix a septic once every 10 years (at worst) looks very cheap indeed!

Good luck with it...

 

[RumpledElf]

I had the septic tank cleaners out to drain and clean an underground water tank that was low and had sludge in the bottom - cost me about $90 I think, might have been a bit over $100.

But I had the advantage that they pumped the water out, their tank on the truck got full, and they dumped it in my backyard (18x100m block) and then drained the rest or I would have been up for a fortune in dumping fees as I was 35km away from the 'proper' place to dump wastewater.

Underground tanks are a PITA, I've since bought polytanks and had that one filled and it is now an "outdoor entertainment area"

(also the rumour was the tank was originally used to store dead bodies, which is enough to put you off drinking water out of there anyway)

 

[Minxdamanx]

1. Asked the plumber the mechanism of blockage - answer - the Tenant was using too much toilet paper, and not flushing every time. That is, great wads of paper were being left after a wee, then another wee, then another wee, then finally a poo before someone pressed the button. The whole soggy stodge slowly crept down and formed a perfect barrier for other stuff - mostly tampons and more paper - to back up. Notice the "every 4 weeks".

Without putting it in quite such literal terms, this is what our plumber is telling us.

2. We then asked how the plumber fixed the problem each time. "Too easy mate - I just got my plunger, gave it a few plunges and she came free every time....no resistance at all." We then asked did you have to use the spirally little tool - any roots perhaps. "Nope, just paper and heaps of tampons."

Tampons not an issue, tenants are in their late 60's. Though of course they may have younger visitors.

3. We then had a face to face meeting with the Tenants (brought the wife along for this one, me for the "Now look here" nonsense and the wife cos we were forced to discuss girly bits. We had to literally go through the motions with them.
4. Fortunately there was a big enough age gap between us that they respected our opinion and mature enough that they didn't get all ****ty and start jumping up and down and affronted.

Isn't this what I pay the damn PM for - but I get your point.

5. We bought them a $ 6.95 plunger and instructed them on how to use it.

Great idea

6. On subsequent Leases with the same Tenants, we have put a provision on the special conditions of the Lease to impose a degree of onus upon the Tenant.

Something along these lines : "The TENANT shall be responsible for repairing all minor wear and tear items during the term of the Lease. These include, but are not limited to light bulbs, tap washers and toilet blockages."


If push came to shove, and this went to tribunal, I would have zero power as none of this is covered in the RTA. It's in the Landlord's lap 100% of the way. An example of tip-toeing thru the tulips cos the Law is against you.

Thanks as I thought, but I will ask for a similar clause to be included in lease renewal.

7. That was back in mid-2005 and we haven't heard from them since or had any trouble. The wife, on her last inspection, noted that the plunger was still there, and they still use it occassionally - every 4 weeks apparently. Apparently three quick plunges and everything is good to go. Takes them less than 10 seconds and nil cost to us.


Unfortunately Minxy, this type of asset attracts this type of problem, and sometimes to protect your cashflows, you need to swim in and amongst their very very very private lives. If they won't let you, or scream and holler that you are invading their privacy, you will be going out the back door cashflow wise....as you have noticed.


You will also note that the time of the incident was also about the time I stopped buying these types of assets. This reason above was one of about 30.


I believe you will need to get involved personally with talking with them. Your hubby and PM are useless in this regard.

These people are nutters, very, very odd. I have no idea how the PM thought they would be suitable tenants, but that is a whole other story. But you are right, I'll make a time to go and see them (with plunger) and see how it goes. If they prefer to go or kick up a fuss, I will see how we go.

By the time I see them I will have
a) a written report from the plumber
b) a clarifying report from another plumber (in agreement with the first)
c) a written letter from an independent consultant confirming a and b

I guess I can't do much else to cover my $^$* than that - and if they prefer to go I won't be standing in their way.

Thank you very much for the input Dazz.

 

[willair]

1. Changed the pan from an S trap to P trap system.
2. Installed new leach drains
3. Replaced a small section of pipe with PVC and installed two inspection points
4. Replaced all pipes leading from house to leach drains
5. Have been there on numerous occasions to fix blockages "when the tenant uses too much paper" (??)

Sum total is around $6k

Today it has again backed up and the plumbers are there again.

).

I have totally lost faith in the plumbers who don't seem to know what the problem is, but I'm loathe to call in another plumber because I'm sure I'll go through the same business again (as I said I've already had 2 separate companies).

.

Any suggestions or expressions of sympathy much appreciated.

This sounds like a real problem,if all the pipework has been replaced, then there may be a problem in the way the pan is set-up,if you could post a picture of the way it is set up i may have a idea,i used to hate these sorts of jobs,because half the time the tenants don't give a stuff and ram everything down the system all bar the kitchen sink,then play dumb,and the Plumber turns up, on one side of the fence is the tenants the otherside the landlord thinking how am i going to pay for this mess,..willair..

 

[Minxdamanx]

Sorry Willair, I don't have any pics since the job was done. We haven't been in the house since these tenants moved in after which the problems started to happen. Never heard a thing with previous tenants.

Damn PM hasn't come back to me yet with the review of the other plumber. I rang twice today, but haven't had my calls returned and that really p's me off, though I suppose that just means she hasn't done it.

I HATE having things just 'hanging'. I like things done and sorted.

Thanks for the offer of assistance anyway.

Actually thanks to everyone who has offered suggestions. It is much appreciated.