PM charging us the landlord for a cracked tile due to what she thinks is movement?

Well, during a recent inspection our PM noticed a couple of damaged tiles in the kitchen. One tile was chipped so clearly damage caused by the Tenant but the 2nd tile thats damaged has a fine hairline crack through it.

This is a 4yr old property (we built from new) so its in excellent condition and never had issues with tiles but PM asked me to supply 2 replacement tiles. I told them sure, i'll organise it without thinking to ask more questions till today.

I queried who was going to pay for the tiles to be replaced and the PM said 50% tenant and 50% us (the landlords). I asked why are we paying 50% exactly and her response was that the tile with the hairline crack in it is cracked due to movement. What the?? Now I know nothing about tiles but am I right to question her decision on this?

Thoughts?:confused:
 
Found this on google for you, maybe it matches your situation;

My wall tiles seem to have hairline cracks in the glaze
Problem:
From time to time, small, hairline cracks can appear in the glazed surface of tiles. This phenomenon is referred to a "crazing." Tiles are not designed to craze, but it is a recognized inherent property that can occur with glazed tiles. A crazed tile will still perform properly and there is no reason for concern. Crazing can often be seen in old or antique pottery or chinaware. If we consider that a tile is a glass surface on a clay background and when "fired" in a kiln, the two materials bond. Crazing can occur when the glass and the clay expand or contract at different rates in an installation. The important issue is that a crazed surface is not a crack through the tile.

What can cause the problem?
As explained, crazing is an inherent property of ceramic tiles. Sometimes it just happens and can't be explained. But it is not detrimental to the performance of the tile. A heavily glazed tile that is subject to widely varying temperatures from in front and behind the tile may exhibit some crazing more easily than other tiles. The glaze and biscuit are expanding and contracting at different rates. It has been recorded that if a "high bond" adhesive is used in a thick application behind a porous biscuit tile, it can effectively bend the tile. This can cause the glaze to craze. Continuous movement of a substrate or structural wall can also cause this phenomenon.

So what can I do now?
A crazed surface will not affect the performance of the tile. Generally, most people will simply ignore the issue. If your project seems to have an extreme case, or it is personally annoying, then the only way to resolve it is to replace the tiles. We can assist in the replacement of crazed tiles. The cost to replace crazed tiles can't be charged back to anyone in particular.
 
If you want it fixed, wear it. If not, leave it as is.
If you were going to take this to the tribunal, I don't think you'd win. There is no way to tell why the tile broke. It could have been the tenant dropping something on it, it could have been movement, it could have been shoddy workmanship, etc.
In dubio pro reo.
 
Found this on google for you, maybe it matches your situation;

Hmmm....quite possibly

If you want it fixed, wear it. If not, leave it as is.
If you were going to take this to the tribunal, I don't think you'd win. There is no way to tell why the tile broke. It could have been the tenant dropping something on it, it could have been movement, it could have been shoddy workmanship, etc.
In dubio pro reo.

True, going to be hard to prove either way. No way i'd even bother thinking about taking this to tribunal...I was just sorta wondering if the PM was telling me flat out porkies thats all :rolleyes:
 
Oh great

a pm that is now a geological expert

What next? Next she,'ll be telling you the hole in the wall is due to quantum physics
 
Irrespective of what caused the damage why would you fix it whilst tenant is in place?

Tiles crack and tiles chip it's more to do with the quality of the tile (hardness) and the quality of the laying. If the crack is caused by movement then it will not be just one tile.

Cheers
 
Well, during a recent inspection our PM noticed a couple of damaged tiles in the kitchen. One tile was chipped so clearly damage caused by the Tenant but the 2nd tile thats damaged has a fine hairline crack through it.

This is a 4yr old property (we built from new) so its in excellent condition and never had issues with tiles but PM asked me to supply 2 replacement tiles. I told them sure, i'll organise it without thinking to ask more questions till today.

I queried who was going to pay for the tiles to be replaced and the PM said 50% tenant and 50% us (the landlords). I asked why are we paying 50% exactly and her response was that the tile with the hairline crack in it is cracked due to movement. What the?? Now I know nothing about tiles but am I right to question her decision on this?

Thoughts?:confused:
Sounds like something heavy has fallen on the floor where the tiles are broken,depending on the cost factor materials time it would not be big in $$$$ terms and the ATO pick up the tab,end of story or the tile lifts which they will tenant goes bellyup ends up in a wheelchair,insurance company goes back through the rental history, insurance company wipes you like a dunny rag and you end up sitting next too a person on 5k a day in a wig in a court..imho..
 
Sounds like something heavy has fallen on the floor where the tiles are broken,depending on the cost factor materials time it would not be big in $$$$ terms and the ATO pick up the tab,end of story or the tile lifts which they will tenant goes bellyup ends up in a wheelchair,insurance company goes back through the rental history, insurance company wipes you like a dunny rag and you end up sitting next too a person on 5k a day in a wig in a court..imho..

We are talking about a hairline crack hardly a reason to start worrying about liability issues.

Currently re-letting a unit and it looks like the tenant had dropsy, they must have dropped anything and everything on the tiled kitchen floor. Chips everywhere and a couple have hairline cracks. Clean the floor and good to go for another tenant.

All the damage is partly my fault as I used some cheap soft tiles which I had left over after giving most of this batch of tiles away because after buying them I decided that they weren't up to the job. My sister has them in her house and they are fine it's just tenants.

Cheers
 
We are talking about a hairline crack hardly a reason to start worrying about liability issues.

Currently re-letting a unit and it looks like the tenant had dropsy, they must have dropped anything and everything on the tiled kitchen floor. Chips everywhere and a couple have hairline cracks. Clean the floor and good to go for another tenant.

All the damage is partly my fault as I used some cheap soft tiles which I had left over after giving most of this batch of tiles away because after buying them I decided that they weren't up to the job. My sister has them in her house and they are fine it's just tenants.

Cheers

Just me Andy ,I always look at the worse downside then work up tiles do lift from my experience but I also know how insurance companies work and they still owe me money from my last claim about 240k,and i'm never going to see that money.
 
Just me Andy ,I always look at the worse downside then work up tiles do lift from my experience but I also know how insurance companies work and they still owe me money from my last claim about 240k,and i'm never going to see that money.


Wouldn't trust any insurance company as far as I could throw them:(

$240k - Ouch. Was this a flood claim?

Cheers
 
Wouldn't trust any insurance company as far as I could throw them:(

A suitable Douglas Adams quote:

"You know they've reintroduced the death penalty for insurance company directors?" "Really?" said Arthur. "No I didn't. For what offence?" Trillian frowned. "What do you mean, offence?"
 
Wouldn't trust any insurance company as far as I could throw them:(

$240k - Ouch. Was this a flood claim?

Cheers
Yes it was,i reckon that they would have a file on me I was never rude to anyone,but they may well use the tapes they have on me too train the new staff about when people told you are not covered even when it says in black and white flood cover,just I never knew that there where that many different types of floods..imho..
 
One tile... Just had an inspection down and EVERY lower window was broken.


Tenant told the agent it was movement...


She told them the name of a glazier.


I increased the rent.
 
One tile was chipped so clearly damage caused by the Tenant

but the 2nd tile thats damaged has a fine hairline crack through it.

Both tiles next to each other? :D

I queried who was going to pay for the tiles to be replaced and the PM said 50% tenant and 50% us (the landlords). I asked why are we paying 50% exactly and her response was that the tile with the hairline crack in it is cracked due to movement.
 
Yes it was,i reckon that they would have a file on me I was never rude to anyone,but they may well use the tapes they have on me too train the new staff about when people told you are not covered even when it says in black and white flood cover,just I never knew that there where that many different types of floods..imho..

Re Flood
Did you see that new decision in The Courier Mail, 26 July 2013 and the editorial?
 
Don't fix anything...

Hmmm....quite possibly



True, going to be hard to prove either way. No way i'd even bother thinking about taking this to tribunal...I was just sorta wondering if the PM was telling me flat out porkies thats all :rolleyes:

The PM has no idea and doesn't have the qualifications to make that kind of statement . Tell the PM that your going to get a professional reports done , cos building movement is a serious matter.
 
This will not assist your present situation, but may be useful for future renos or builds. I always keep tiles that are surplus to requirements, including bits of a decent size. One place to keep them is in the ceiling, if possible with insulation to minimise the heat and cold variations. There's usually enough spare timber to make a box.

I also have a specification sheet that details all the paints, tiles, whitegoods, and other ingredients that may need servicing or replacement. This spec sheet is filed with the sparky, plumber and other like documents. A spreadsheet of rooms with walls, windows, ceilings, doors, etc shows how much paint, carpet, lino, curtains or the like is needed.

As for being physics, it's more mathematics, calculus to be precise. You may have heard of integration in maths. What you describe appears to be disintegration.
 
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