Pm Jailed for trust account breaches

[russellpeter]

have a read and would be interested to know if the punishment fits the crime?

http://www.rpmonline.com.au/news/11845-pm-jailed-for-trust-account-breaches

 

[Ausprop]

what an idiot - if the PM needed cash (assuming this is a matter of theft which the article doesn't really state?) you'd be better off just doing a home invasion, the cops can barely bother turning up for that.

 

[thatbum]

No. Too lenient.

Trust account fraud is the worst type of fraud/stealing offences, and should be penalised as such. Too many Real Estate Agents seem to get slaps on the wrist for that sort of offending, when lawyers seem to get it a lot worse for even any "abnormalities" in a trust account.

Note its a suspended sentence so she doesn't actually spend any time inside.

 

[TMNT]

what did he do with the $14k of money? if he spent it then its a fair punsihment

if he simply didnt do it the right way and was lazy about it, but the people got their money, id say a bit harsh, just a penalty would be enough

 

[chilliblue]

We gave evidence on this one.

http://www.propertyobserver.com.au/new-south-wales/harcourts-$14-million-fraudster-agents-have-prison-sentences-upheld/2013100365493

Not only defrauding the real estate's trust account, but also a separate strata company's as well.

 

[Sez]

Not enough. No wonder real estate agents have such a bad name.................

 

[skater]

We were on the receiving end of a PM with breaches. The amount we were done for was staggering & yet there were others much worse off than us.

He got off with a slap on the wrist. So not happy!!

 

[TMNT]

http://www.news.com.au/realestate/s...l-estate-licence/story-fndbawks-1226745073477


well well well

 

[Peterw]

Skater, here in QLD, any customer suffering a loss, claims that from the Fidelity Fund. Did you not do that?

In relation to licencing, I believe QLD and NSW do checks, I am not sure about other States.

There is a push for National Licencing, and I believe the tests/requirements will be lower than current in QLD.

I agree, the entry standards should be high.

 

[russellpeter]

Skater, here in QLD, any customer suffering a loss, claims that from the Fidelity Fund. Did you not do that?

In relation to licencing, I believe QLD and NSW do checks, I am not sure about other States.

There is a push for National Licencing, and I believe the tests/requirements will be lower than current in QLD.

I agree, the entry standards should be high.

The test will be lower than currently in QLD? its already a joke.

The number of properties we pick up and have found issues with the ledger works out to be close to 1 in 5. so far we have recovered around 8K in rent that agencies did not disburse to owners.

The worst is the agencies that still use XL spread sheets

 

[skater]

Skater, here in QLD, any customer suffering a loss, claims that from the Fidelity Fund. Did you not do that?

Much of my stuff wasn't claimable through the Fidelity Fund. Things like Bonds not lodged (kept) were only discovered when the Tenant vacated. Other stuff like rents received in cash with no trail. Basically all my tenants were severely in arrears, but they all told the story of the Agent driving to their home & collecting the rent in person. Basically his word against theirs. We had no idea how much the tenants had paid, no records, no proof, no evidence. Based on this, we weren't eligible to claim.

There comes a time when you have to just cut your losses & get on with it. So that is what we did. We just ended up accepting the tenants word. Our new PM was left in charge of working it all out & she handled it all really well, but some of it took a while to surface, like the Bonds thing.

 

[Ausprop]

if a PM purported to pay an expense from the rent proceeds but didn't, is that a mistake or theft??

 

[Peterw]

if a PM purported to pay an expense from the rent proceeds but didn't, is that a mistake or theft??

At a course today, we were reminded that there are 3 types of errors
1. Innocent.
2. Negligent.
3. Fraudulent.
so it probably depends on "why" the payment was not made.

 

[Peterw]

Much of my stuff wasn't claimable through the Fidelity Fund. Things like Bonds not lodged (kept) were only discovered when the Tenant vacated. Other stuff like rents received in cash with no trail. Basically all my tenants were severely in arrears, but they all told the story of the Agent driving to their home & collecting the rent in person. Basically his word against theirs. We had no idea how much the tenants had paid, no records, no proof, no evidence. Based on this, we weren't eligible to claim.

There comes a time when you have to just cut your losses & get on with it. So that is what we did. We just ended up accepting the tenants word. Our new PM was left in charge of working it all out & she handled it all really well, but some of it took a while to surface, like the Bonds thing.

Sorry, I never thought about a situation where there was no records. Lifes all about lessons.

 

[marg4000]

We had a PM go bad and defraud the trust fund by not banking cash payments.

Thankfully for us our tenant had receipts signed by the PM for the cash amount of the bond and the rent in advance, which enabled us to claim on the fidelity fund.

But we had to follow it up. We notified the Fidelity fund who said they would contact us and did not. Purely by chance I phoned 24 hours before the claims were to be finalised by the courts. Fancy footwork by DH meant we were able to lodge our claim in time and recoup our money (and the tenant their bond). No thanks to the fund as we very nearly missed out.
Marg

 

[Deltaberry]

This country takes trust account breaches (accountants, lawyers etc) very seriously.

If it had been personal fraud, he probably wouldn't have gone to jail.