Poor V Rich mentality?

[tubs]

Some of you guys need to get out and meet more 'Aussies'. Then again what is your definition of an 'Aussie'? Most of the ones I know are successful in business and life and don't carry on the way you guys keep going on and on and on about.

Like many of us, you probably associate with people similar to you.

But you only have to look at ACA and TT and see how much they praise the 'Aussie Battler' who could well be accused of not having done enough to improve themselves. They show this great family sitting around the barbeque drinking beer. All they want is to spend time with their family and their mates, go fishing, and watch the cricket/footy. They get treated like heroes, and make the sound hard done by when they lose their job, or lose money or if somethig goes wrong.

Politicians can't wait to get their arm around them for a photo. Let's face it, most Aussies are like that. Go to work and do the bare minimum and then go home and spend ZERO time on improving their life. Don't want to invest. Don't want to do any study. Don't want to learn anything. Just plug themselves into the idiot box until its bedtime.

And if you're not like that in this country, you're somehow wierd.

 

[john]

G'Day Tubs

Well said. I Could not agree with you more. You will probably cop a bit of flack for being so honest but that is to be expected. However, any reasonable person would have to agree that the average Aussie (living in the best bloody country in the world as we do) is pretty lazy when it comes to self education -especially financial/investing education. Most people leave school, do some form of tertiary education or get a trade or just get a job. Which is all well and good but without an education in matters financial, very few will retire self funded, even after possibly earning many millions of dollars throughout their working lives. Even some that have degrees and high paid jobs will need a full or part pension to get them through their retirement years, even with some superannuation. But as the popular Aussie saying goes - "I'm here for a good time, not a long time" Fact is ,that most of us (touch wood) are here for a long time too and living one score and maybe another ten years after retirement on the pension does not excite me too much.

 

[Player]

.....and you shall be culled to the "norm"

Like many of us, you probably associate with people similar to you.

But you only have to look at ACA and TT and see how much they praise the 'Aussie Battler' who could well be accused of not having done enough to improve themselves. They show this great family sitting around the barbeque drinking beer. All they want is to spend time with their family and their mates, go fishing, and watch the cricket/footy. They get treated like heroes, and make the sound hard done by when they lose their job, or lose money or if somethig goes wrong.

Politicians can't wait to get their arm around them for a photo. Let's face it, most Aussies are like that. Go to work and do the bare minimum and then go home and spend ZERO time on improving their life. Don't want to invest. Don't want to do any study. Don't want to learn anything. Just plug themselves into the idiot box until its bedtime.

And if you're not like that in this country, you're somehow wierd.

And there will be many who will (try to) harvest your height (and aspirations/ambitions) lest you show them up.

Whoever has heard Rick Otton speak of Warrior nations veruses Convict nations will understand this.

Australia for the most part was (aside from it's original native aboriginals) settled by convicts. If you spoke up as a convict you were quickly curtailed by your inmate cohort as everyone got the punishment not just the perpertrator

Warrior nations include the US, New Zealand and gave rise to more entrepreneurs. Interestingly, Western Australia received less convicts than the eastern sea board. No wonder most entrepreneurs come from the west

The culture here (and I am speaking in a very broad generic sense) is one of tolerance and chopping down what others have lofty ambition about. In a warrior nation enterprise is largely celebrated not stifled

Great post tubs

 

[cloudyday]

But you only have to look at ACA and TT and see how much they praise the 'Aussie Battler' who could well be accused of not having done enough to improve themselves. They show this great family sitting around the barbeque drinking beer. All they want is to spend time with their family and their mates, go fishing, and watch the cricket/footy. They get treated like heroes, and make the sound hard done by when they lose their job, or lose money or if somethig goes wrong.

100% agree! Some of that hatred even exists in this forum. In one of the threads I mentioned if people want to earn a better income, they should improve their current situation (e.g get a degree, read more, learn a new skill) and was blasted down 1-2 angry posters, apparently I was disrespectful for suggesting the obvious.

 

[BayView]

Like many of us, you probably associate with people similar to you.

But you only have to look at ACA and TT and see how much they praise the 'Aussie Battler' who could well be accused of not having done enough to improve themselves. They show this great family sitting around the barbeque drinking beer. All they want is to spend time with their family and their mates, go fishing, and watch the cricket/footy. They get treated like heroes, and make the sound hard done by when they lose their job, or lose money or if somethig goes wrong.

Politicians can't wait to get their arm around them for a photo. Let's face it, most Aussies are like that. Go to work and do the bare minimum and then go home and spend ZERO time on improving their life. Don't want to invest. Don't want to do any study. Don't want to learn anything. Just plug themselves into the idiot box until its bedtime.

And if you're not like that in this country, you're somehow wierd.

Interesting observation here, and mostly true.

However, I associate only with people like myself, but are thrown into having to deal with everyone through my work.

This is where you see what the real pattern actually is.

The real pattern is that most of the population are "battlers' and always will be, and have a healthy disrespect for anyone who is "above" them.

Sadly, the 5% that we all (here at SS) try to emulate and become are few and far between.

 

[jingo]

And there will be many who will (try to) harvest your height (and aspirations/ambitions) lest you show them up.

So true, Player.

Have experienced this within my own family. Comments are subtle, but they are made. The underdog is celebrated, but those who are achievers are ever so subtly put down.

mmm.....

Regards Jason.

 

[RumpledElf]

Have experienced this within my own family. Comments are subtle, but they are made. The underdog is celebrated, but those who are achievers are ever so subtly put down.

We get this from one half of the family - we have one of those people who likes to complain about everything but not do anything about it. And of course, if you're doing something good yourself, there's very little interest in it. The complained-about things only stop when the situation is forced - like the half-broken cooktop that finally bit the dust. Complaining for years that no brand would fit there so it couldn't ever be replaced - of course there was one that fit perfectly, just not the brand they wanted. Now the complaints have shifted to the half-dead fridge and there is, naturally, no other fridge being manufactured anywhere that will possibly fit in the same spot as the old one.

Other half was doing it yesterday - I had rearranged the kitchen cupboards and he complained the bowls were in front of the plates not behind them. I told him to move them then. He says, tongue in cheek, "No! I need something to complain about!"

 

[Aaron Sice]

that's funny RE...!

 

[Indifference]

So true, Player.

Have experienced this within my own family. Comments are subtle, but they are made. The underdog is celebrated, but those who are achievers are ever so subtly put down.

Yep, I get it all the time from some parts of the extended family I have even given up socialising or speaking with them about professional and personal endeavours as it is seen as 'grandstanding'. They much prefer to hear, 'No, nothing really. Just getting by like everyone else.'

I really hate the work related questions because sometimes I feel like I am speaking to a 3-4 year old, but there is a grown adult looking back at me with glazed over eyes. If work related issues don't involve manual labour or get translated into monosyllabic responses, then I get 'the look' ....... I'm such an ***

 

[Y33]

I take it everyone has their own definition of what an 'aussie' is. For me it is basically as someone else mentioned a person residing in Australia and or calls it home, even if overseas (as in my situation). Most of my friends either own their own businesses or have well paying jobs either govt or private, some are third generation or more Australians and some were born overseas.

I've met a few of the so called ACA type some have referred too but I don't seem them as being the norm. Not everyone complains about not having enough and not everyone wants to be successful property investors. I have rellies that are both successful in money but their life leads a lot to be desired and there are others who are quite happy with their jobs, basic house and having the friends over for a BBQ on limited incomes.

There is nothing wrong with not choosing a life that is filled with the trappings of success. Some seem to quick here to label aussies as no hopers, lazy etc but then what are you if you are living in Oz?

 

[Indifference]

I have rellies that are both successful in money but their life leads a lot to be desired and there are others who are quite happy with their jobs, basic house and having the friends over for a BBQ on limited incomes.

I bet a lot of them pin their hopes on Lotto for a better life someday though...

There is nothing wrong with not choosing a life that is filled with the trappings of success. Some seem to quick here to label aussies as no hopers, lazy etc but then what are you if you are living in Oz?

Agreed, however, choosing to do so and being ignorant to the other paths in life are completely different.

I never feel 'above' my rellies, but I can't stomach the woe is me rhetoric, or mindless overtime to make a few dollars to buy a slightly better comfort. There are other ways to earn other than simply being an employee..... and it's not rocket science.....I know, because I have actually studied it at uni, and I know that making $ work for $ is a heck of lot easier to learn, practice and enjoy

I never begrudge another persons life decisions. Never. But I do begrudge a decision made upon a solitary choice.... because you can not 'choose' from a single option, you simply live that way because you are ignorant to any other "choice" in life. There is no free lunch, unless you are on the Dole.

 

[Y33]

I bet a lot of them pin their hopes on Lotto for a better life someday though...

Actually one of them did win but doesn't show it.

 

[garygoodbloke]

I saw a post here that said that the poster know many people who have the house, the BBQ, the cars, the kids, the good jobs, etc... and they're content. I don't doubt that these situations occur.

But I ask, is that enough? I mean, perhaps this is a bit existential and many people have different ideas about why we're here on the planet but for myself, I personally believe it's important to give back to the world. With all the darkness and bad stuff going on and with all those born into poverty and lacking means or opportunities to get things going (I'm talking about the deck being stacked against, say, an Indian baby born into a slum) then I personally feel that if it is possible for me to generate wealth, and I have the opportunity to do so, then I feel morally obligated to do so on behalf of those who cannot. And with the proceeds of my wealth, I should reinvest parts of it into a mechanism that creates more opportunities to help those with a strong and sincere desire to help themselves.

If on a larger scale we all fail to do this, then the imbalance will be unsustainable, globally speaking. For me it's not enough to come and go without leaving a lot behind. Not to leave it how I found it, but to leave it better than I found it and at a rate that were it to be done on a large scale it would lead to more solutions than problems in the world.

It's somewhat like Warren Buffet's perspective I suppose. I'm still in the process of fitting my own oxygen mask first (as in the analogy where the plane goes down) before I can fit the masks of others.

So, that's a judgment I've made for myself. That's my life and my journey. I don't presume to enforce my judgment upon others, there's far too much of that going on in the world. I just know that for me, it'd be disgustingly selfish for me to live driving a Ferrari I don't need in the pursuit of the approval of others when I know that the car could educate, train and otherwise assist others and help them out of poverty so that they could (like compound interest) do the same for others, and so on. Perhaps that could be my reward for helping provide the means and assisting 10,000 people just so that they have a shot at helping themselves.

But my I have several strong beliefs I hold and one is that you can't change another person. To be honest, I wouldn't even want to. If I did, there'd be a cosmic imbalance. If I was right then I'd be robbing them of the opportunity to learn and if I was wrong I'd be injuring them. At the end of the day, I don't much mind what others do, I can only think about the things I can control and I focus on those. I selfishly get joy from making helping others feel happy, but I totally understand that they created their happiness and I'm fortunate to be there to enjoy it with them.

Otherwise, if you want the rewards, get ready to do the work or you may as well save yourself a lot of time, energy and money and plug into the idiot box from the beginning...

 

[human]

you are a good bloke gary and one who does not like talking much about himself ..! 34 (I's) in your one post and I didn't even count all the (me's) ...

I saw a post here that said that the poster know many people who have the house, the BBQ, the cars, the kids, the good jobs, etc... and they're content. I don't doubt that these situations occur.

But I ask, is that enough? I mean, perhaps this is a bit existential and many people have different ideas about why we're here on the planet but for myself, I personally believe it's important to give back to the world. With all the darkness and bad stuff going on and with all those born into poverty and lacking means or opportunities to get things going (I'm talking about the deck being stacked against, say, an Indian baby born into a slum) then I personally feel that if it is possible for me to generate wealth, and I have the opportunity to do so, then I feel morally obligated to do so on behalf of those who cannot. And with the proceeds of my wealth, I should reinvest parts of it into a mechanism that creates more opportunities to help those with a strong and sincere desire to help themselves.

If on a larger scale we all fail to do this, then the imbalance will be unsustainable, globally speaking. For me it's not enough to come and go without leaving a lot behind. Not to leave it how I found it, but to leave it better than I found it and at a rate that were it to be done on a large scale it would lead to more solutions than problems in the world.

It's somewhat like Warren Buffet's perspective I suppose. I'm still in the process of fitting my own oxygen mask first (as in the analogy where the plane goes down) before I can fit the masks of others.

So, that's a judgment I've made for myself. That's my life and my journey. I don't presume to enforce my judgment upon others, there's far too much of that going on in the world. I just know that for me, it'd be disgustingly selfish for me to live driving a Ferrari I don't need in the pursuit of the approval of others when I know that the car could educate, train and otherwise assist others and help them out of poverty so that they could (like compound interest) do the same for others, and so on. Perhaps that could be my reward for helping provide the means and assisting 10,000 people just so that they have a shot at helping themselves.

But my I have several strong beliefs I hold and one is that you can't change another person. To be honest, I wouldn't even want to. If I did, there'd be a cosmic imbalance. If I was right then I'd be robbing them of the opportunity to learn and if I was wrong I'd be injuring them. At the end of the day, I don't much mind what others do, I can only think about the things I can control and I focus on those. I selfishly get joy from making helping others feel happy, but I totally understand that they created their happiness and I'm fortunate to be there to enjoy it with them.

Otherwise, if you want the rewards, get ready to do the work or you may as well save yourself a lot of time, energy and money and plug into the idiot box from the beginning...

 

[Perp]

you are a good bloke gary and one who does not like talking much about himself ..! 34 (I's) in your one post and I didn't even count all the (me's) ...

Given that he's talking about his beliefs, it seems appropriate to continually refer to himself. It would be far more arrogant to continually state "everybody should", or assert his opinions as fact.

 

[garygoodbloke]

You counted all the "I"s in my post? I(1) guess I(2)'m flattered, did you do it manually or copy and paste into a word document and then use the search function? I(3) guess not because then you could've searched for all the "me"s as well.

If you prefer then perhaps one could use one's knowledge of the first person singular as the subject and object pronoun in one's sentences to assist one's sense that one is not so pompous and to ensure one's image is in keeping with one's ideal projection of oneself. However, given the circumstances one may feel that one would be better served and creates less confusion within one's readership if one discontinued the use of the third person singular so as to be in better keeping with the register (level of formality) of the forum one chooses to participate in discussion in.

Seeing as I(4) am not of the opinion that I(5) can presume to fully understand someone else's views without running them through my perceptual filter I(6) therefore feel that discussing or commenting on their views would be misinformed.

Think of it like a goldfish looking at the light outside the bowl, and then the goldfish describes the light but asserts that not only is the light unaffected by the water but that infact, there is no water. As in, our biases and prejudices are so ingrained that we often believe they don't exist at all and like to believe that we have a handle on the truth and it's got at through logic and untarnished by our predisposed opinions (from our environment, etc...). Whereas I(7) simply assert that the water is there in my bowl and I(8) can understand it only so well, but I(9)'ll never exist outside of it, so I(10) don't try to describe the light outside objectively I(11)'m simply concerned with how I(12) perceive it and the implications that has on my decisions and existence.

In posting here, I(13)'m simply providing a "light" (not in the truthful sense of the word, but in the scientific sense for the purposes of the analogy) which others are free to interpret, dismiss, salvage, adopt, or recycle as they see fit. Hence, even if I(14) attempted to describe the outside world objectively, it would still be coloured by all my biases, and those are so far out of my control that I(15) doubt I(16)'m fully aware of them. So I(18) won't engage in such a petty and useless subterfuge and just let you know what I(19) think, take it or leave it.

And if all of this is just psuedo-intellectual gobbledy-gook, then I(20) sincerely apologise.

How many did I(21) miss?

 

[wylie]

I liked garygoodbloke's post. I didn't count the "I"s. I found it quite thought provoking (and I just noticed I have used I a fair bit in this reply ).

 

[RumpledElf]

Bloody investors. Its all "me me me". My future. My happiness. My financial security. My nice retirement. My nest egg for the kids. Sheesh

 

[Player]

The virtue of selfishness

Bloody investors. Its all "me me me". My future. My happiness. My financial security. My nice retirement. My nest egg for the kids. Sheesh

Ahh........ but one needs to make it all about "me" or "I" before one can make it about anybody else.............one cannot help the poor, sick, disempowered. etc., by becomeing one of them

There is a virtue in selfishness

Make it about oneself before making it about anybody else, akin to attaching your own oxygen mask before assisting others

 

[garygoodbloke]

There is a virtue in selfishness

Make it about oneself before making it about anybody else, akin to attaching your own oxygen mask before assisting others

I completely agree. In fact, I mentioned this in another post by Kath Russell about the AFL player cousin of hers who on one level wants helps but is unwilling to actually do anything about it.

I'd take it a step further and suggest that there is no such thing as a selfless/altruistic act. I don't see the word selfish as being exclusively negative. In the extreme example where I might sacrifice my life for that of sister's or something of this nature, the emotional pay-off I get from reinforcing my self image as a wonderful brother and humane pay-off is where the selfishness lies. The fact that it benefits my sister is far from irrelevany; it is in fact an indispensable part of the process.

So managed selfishness and delayed gratification can be wonderful forces if you harness them.

Thanks for the positive responses to my posts. And in anticipation of future points of differences others may have, I'll state now that emotions are the most addictive things we have and expand on it later.