Evand:
No Evand you are not alone. Thanks for your post.
No Evand you are not alone. Thanks for your post.
Poor V Rich mentality?
- Thread starter BayView
- Start date
evand, I don't think it's the poverty that triggered a reaction (at least not in me), but the attitude towards the landlord. That attitude would annoy me if it came from a wealthy person, too.
I know that some people on the forum show disrespect to anybody who's poor, or who doesn't share the goals or aspirations of investors, or who spend their money in certain ways. I certainly don't share that view, and I agree it's poor form. There are plenty of people who have other aspirations - spiritual, charitable, serving humanity, adventures - who may think that our investing aspirations are incomprehensible, and we're really "missing out" on the best life. Thank goodness we don't all want the same thing!
I'll never understand why anybody would want to sky-dive, for example. But my husband did it and loved it! He can like sky-diving as much he wants. But if he started criticising me for not wanting to sky-dive, then I'm highly like to react.
A "rich mentality" is pretty meaningless. If you can't walk the walk, all the hype in the world won't help.
Jodee Rich has a "rich mentality", a rich father and the drive to make and lose two multi-million dollar fortunes while still a young man, but he is unique. By comparison, many here look like "copy-cat wannabes": Faithfully following yesterday's good idea. These people you rubbish are doing much the same thing, that is, not changing with the times. Anyone who survived the war or who's parents were scarred by it will, naturally, not have the same confidence as we do (my Father was scarred BTW).
Evan and I are of an age where we can look back on the paths we have taken and with the benefit of hindsight, tell you which were fruitful and which were dry gullies. We didn't head up the dry gullies on purpose of course: It seemed right at the time. I suggest many here will find that res property is a dry gully too, if you are in it too late and undercapitalised. As the dot.com bubble had a finite life, so to has the "borrowing to grow rich" bubble come to an end. I should point out that I'm not saying that the idea of borrowing to advance a project has finished, it's just that you must be more selective about the project, there must be a reasonable projected return and risk must be controlled.
Jodee Rich has a "rich mentality", a rich father and the drive to make and lose two multi-million dollar fortunes while still a young man, but he is unique. By comparison, many here look like "copy-cat wannabes": Faithfully following yesterday's good idea. These people you rubbish are doing much the same thing, that is, not changing with the times. Anyone who survived the war or who's parents were scarred by it will, naturally, not have the same confidence as we do (my Father was scarred BTW).
Evan and I are of an age where we can look back on the paths we have taken and with the benefit of hindsight, tell you which were fruitful and which were dry gullies. We didn't head up the dry gullies on purpose of course: It seemed right at the time. I suggest many here will find that res property is a dry gully too, if you are in it too late and undercapitalised. As the dot.com bubble had a finite life, so to has the "borrowing to grow rich" bubble come to an end. I should point out that I'm not saying that the idea of borrowing to advance a project has finished, it's just that you must be more selective about the project, there must be a reasonable projected return and risk must be controlled.
*snip*Her house is right next door to the local Motel, and the house is owned by the guy who owns the Motel. She has been living in - and renting - this house for 30 years.
She proceeds to tell me that the owner is now considering bulldozing the house to put in more Motel rooms, and she is going to be forced out of her house, it's not fair; I've been living (and renting) here for thirty years, he's loaded - has 5 houses, two motels, a plane - why does he need more money? It's just unnecessary, what am I going to do?
And so on. Getting stuck into the rich, greedy Landlord in not so many words.
*snip*
The thing that irked me was her mentality towards the "rich" folk, and how she was poor.
She is about to lose her house of 30 years.
Irrespective of whether she is a renter. owner or whatever, her emotional response is understandable.
Anyone want to convince me that if you spent an extended period building your portfolio and due to *insert circumstances here* I, as your banker, sold up your portfolio, a disparaging comment around banks or the certainty of my ancestry wouldn't pass your lips.
which is a shame because it was really cool when everyone was a millionaire just by asking. Now you have to consider small things such as cashflow, something that the majority of aussie resi property is notoriously bad at. I think re-assessment of risk and yield along with constrained capital will see a permanent kick up in rental returns. It will be unpopular, there will be howling, politicians will gripe...but the market will set the levels.
as i read monsoons post i felt that it was a dig at those who have or are succeeding, i get feeling that some assume that some folks are wealthy/rich well to do , because they had some type of silverspoon hand up, and this becomes there excuse of not being able to do the same, the excuse is used , like the rich get richer, and they have that stuff because their oldies are loaded, , only my family realy know what i have done , and i am sure its some of the hardest roads most here have everseen , yep i worked my guts out and i have taken some financial risks , some of the things i did building this home would be non conceviable to most , and i challange folks to do better, , so self read , self educated TWO compleated trades and a class c builders lic, and financially educating my self , through books and ss, fro having a single mum who had cronic epilepsy and raising my two brothers from the age of 12, and no dad, it builds you , and teaches you to feed your self , very early in life, hand up if you know what it feels like when your mum collapses in a shopping mall and your the only one that knows what to do , your 12, !
dont assume we are silver spooners,
sorry about the reply , silly sob story , now lets moove on,
dont assume we are silver spooners,
sorry about the reply , silly sob story , now lets moove on,
I see your point, however, I believe that some landlords hold some responsibility in helping "poor old ladies" stay poor.
The way I see it, some landlords feed off the uneducated for as long as they can and don't give two hoots what happens to the tenant when the time comes for the bulldozer to demolish the house to make way for progress.
I am all for developing and creating more wealth, however, creating win-win situations is what life is meant to be about. Isn't it?
Cheers
Mick
The way I see it, some landlords feed off the uneducated for as long as they can and don't give two hoots what happens to the tenant when the time comes for the bulldozer to demolish the house to make way for progress.
I am all for developing and creating more wealth, however, creating win-win situations is what life is meant to be about. Isn't it?
Cheers
Mick
if you are the landlord of a resi property the chances are you are making a loss. You are subsidising the lifestyle of a stranger. I think landlords deserve a lot more recognition, perhaps awards for those that lose the most in order to house others. TV shows, Australia Day thank yous etc. Thumbs up to all the resi landlords that take all the grief, wear the bills and sit back and prey it all works out, you are doing a great service for the country.
that;s a bit patronsiing ocoming form someon as intelligent as you
I certainly do not know of any resi landlords who purchased houses in order to house the poor and chuck in extr money - all for absolutley nothing. zilch. no gain / benefit at all
I have no where near the experience you have, Im guessing I m younger too, but I honestly do not know of 1 person like that of the landlords that I do know ... perhaps it's too soon, I've only been investing 5 short years, to have met them yet...
I certainly do not know of any resi landlords who purchased houses in order to house the poor and chuck in extr money - all for absolutley nothing. zilch. no gain / benefit at all
I have no where near the experience you have, Im guessing I m younger too, but I honestly do not know of 1 person like that of the landlords that I do know ... perhaps it's too soon, I've only been investing 5 short years, to have met them yet...
And 10000000 other things could ahve occured in her lfe which wiped the benefits of her doing what you say she should have done
the easiest thing is to criticise somethgin you don't understand
and the most naiive to insist you do understand when you don't
patronising to the tenants or the landlords? the comments above are serious.
however your post has made me think. true charity is giving without expecting anything in return. resi landlords are giving without really knowing. It is an important distinction and as such the awards would be inappropriate.
craig, if you red monsoon's post, she was talking about this lady not of our generation, and not those younger ones today who may not have the same reasons to have the same attitude.........
Well said. To pass judgement and make assumptions about a persons choices in life with minimal background information is precisely "bad form".
There seems to be trend recently from posters of being "holier than thou".
A little humility would go a long way.
Rooster
I also always shake my head at these comments. We don't take any grief (well.... sometimes a tiny bit of grief
), we do wear some bills and we sit back and let the tenants pay the mortgage plus put some money in our pockets. Meanwhile the value of the asset the tenant is "minding" for us just keeps on increasing, slowly but surely.If our tenant could rent our place for $500 per week or buy it with a mortgage of $1000 per week, then some folk think that we are "subsidising" the tenant's living expenses.
I see it the other way around. This particular house cost us $156K and we have spent about $30K over eleven years improving it and I reckon the tenants are subsidising our living expenses. I realise at first we had to put money in the deal, but that didn't last long until it turned positive and they started putting money in our pocket.
I think it comes down to how you see things, level of risk (we wouldn't touch commercial with a barge pole) and whether you feel you have to "win" all the time.
There are probably a dozen ways we could make more money, but we are pretty lazy these days. I have seen our tenants once in twelve months, spend two minutes writing a receipt once a week and I would be very happy to "subsidise" a few more tenants if I could.
Nah ,you are not alone there,i started in the gutter myself
in the park just up from where i live maybe 20-50 people sleep along the river front every night,a quick walk there each morning brings your feet back on the ground real quick,but the interesting part is they all seem happy on sit down money, i don't look down on them,i just help a few of the older ones that i keep an eye on,very sad to see men above 65 with mental problems living in parks alone..willair..
It isn't the being 'poor' that offends my sensibilities. I have been there, done that, stared longingly at the T-shirt I couldn't afford to purchase. I understand that there are numerous reasons why someone is in bad financial circumstances, and these thing may very well be beyond their control. I strongly disagree that 'anyone' can create wealth from nothing - for alot of reasons.
What does get up my nose, is this attitude that someone is 'rich' and therefore should make concessions to the rest of the world. Firstly wealth or being 'rich' is a matter of perception. I am now 'rich' as I perceived the world as a penniless uni student - we now have a household income of between 90-100k. But now that I am here it doesn't seem so rich anymore. funny that. Yet I still resent hearing others in the same income bracket wingeing about how hard up they are financially and how they cann't 'afford' x, y, z - but i only they had more money like (insert someone's name here who earns more money) it would solve all their problems. You don't solve money problems with money, people!
Australians definitely suffer from tall poppy syndrome, and that is an attitude i have no patience for.
What does get up my nose, is this attitude that someone is 'rich' and therefore should make concessions to the rest of the world. Firstly wealth or being 'rich' is a matter of perception. I am now 'rich' as I perceived the world as a penniless uni student - we now have a household income of between 90-100k. But now that I am here it doesn't seem so rich anymore. funny that. Yet I still resent hearing others in the same income bracket wingeing about how hard up they are financially and how they cann't 'afford' x, y, z - but i only they had more money like (insert someone's name here who earns more money) it would solve all their problems. You don't solve money problems with money, people!
Australians definitely suffer from tall poppy syndrome, and that is an attitude i have no patience for.
But how can Evan judge that Marc was ridiculing her?
That's the problem with judgement. We all do it regularly and are all very good at getting it wrong.
Saying that there is a big difference between making an observation and making judgement/criticism. Marc has made some observations according to his perspective and has written up here for us to digest.
So.......
But this is the story, and I was secretly shaking my head a bit. I did feel quite sorry for her; she's a nice lady, but I also didn't if that makes sense.
Hmm - some compassion there
There could be more to it; she may have had an enormous run of terrible bad luck financially in her life, but...
Acknowledgement of possibility of bad luck.
She proceeds to tell me that the owner is now considering bulldozing the house to put in more Motel rooms, and she is going to be forced out of her house, it's not fair; I've been living (and renting) here for thirty years, he's loaded - has 5 houses, two motels, a plane - why does he need more money? It's just unnecessary, what am I going to do?
She is judging her landlord - we don't know his situation or life circumstance.
Now, I do agree with her about not needing to extend the Motel and kicking her out because it is big enough, but at certain times of the year you could rent out each room 5 times over.
Seeing things from her perspective
To me; it' all seems a bit self inflicted.
The old debate on karma/ self responsibility (you make your future from your past and current actions) or luck/fate.
She smells like an ashtray, so you know that she has probably smoked a few house purchases in her years. Looks like a "career" smoker, and about 70 years old.
Who knows how long she's been smoking?
Had she not have done these 3 simple things;
1. Bought the car brand new in 1975 (when renting)
2. Smoking like a chimney I suspect for all that time (based on her smell).
3. Didn't buy a house for 30 years (houses in Dromana 30 years ago were a song even at those days' prices.)
The result could have been far different without too much alteration to her lifestyle.
What about 4. Changed her mindset.
The thing that irked me was her mentality towards the "rich" folk, and how she was poor.
Some reaction and judgement there, perhaps.
All in all, I am sure Marc is relating his observations to us with only, a little bit of criticism thrown in there - but definitely not ridicule. Maybe others here have judged him more than he has judged her?
Anyway - that's my observation FWIW.
No, chances are you HAVE made a loss at some point, we're not here to support tenants lifestyles, but in saying that, i agree, LL do deserve more recognition, as we are seen as the big bad wolf.
Because the "poor mentality" shows that LLs are all rich. Naturally, i see my parents rolling around in their millions driving fancy cars everyday..
Myself, never spoon fed, but i was luckily enough to have been provided eductaion by my parents. But i can assure you, even though i have compassion to many people, i won't provide subsidised housing.
But how can Evan judge that Marc was ridiculing her?
That's the problem with judgement. We all do it regularly and are all very good at getting it wrong.
Saying that there is a big difference between making an observation and making judgement/criticism. Marc has made some observations according to his perspective and has written up here for us to digest.
So.......
All in all, I am sure Marc is relating his observations to us with only, a little bit of criticism thrown in there - but definitely not ridicule. Maybe others here have judged him more than he has judged her?
Anyway - that's my observation FWIW.
who says it is not ridicule - you ?
Why are you more right than me / others who feel it was ridiculing?
My first feeling upon reading the post was that I honestly felt that I would not share much about my own mother after reading that.
