Poor V Rich mentality?

[jaycee]

No, chances are you HAVE made a loss at some point, we're not here to support tenants lifestyles, but in saying that, i agree, LL do deserve more recognition, as we are seen as the big bad wolf.
Because the "poor mentality" shows that LLs are all rich. Naturally, i see my parents rolling around in their millions driving fancy cars everyday..

Myself, never spoon fed, but i was luckily enough to have been provided eductaion by my parents. But i can assure you, even though i have compassion to many people, i won't provide subsidised housing.

Why should landloard's get MORE recognition ? We buy what we wnat, we charge money from it & hope to profit from it.

What the hell could you WANT ? I dont do this for any alturistic reasons, I dont offer anything that costs me money for no gain of my onw, how the hell do I deserve recongition for this ? If I didnt want to d it, I wouldnt get involved - what are we on about here ?

 

[Rockstar]

who says it is not ridicule - you ?

From the feeling I got it was not ridicule - but only Marc can provide that answer. Shall we ask him to clear it up?

Why are you more right than me / others who feel it was ridiculing?

Did I say that I was more right than others? Sorry, it was not intended to give that impression. I just pointed out my observations - which were, of course, biased by my past experience.
Was just raising a few questions about folks forming judgement on Marc passing judgement on the old lady. If you felt offended you misjudged my post - which by no means was written to offend anyone.

 

[battler]

I don't think there is enough information given from the Lady to make any sort of accurate assessment, or whether anyone has the right to make such assessment.

A couple of things that happen to people that has a great impact on whether they can become financially independant, My mother in law nursed a sick husband until his death, after coming home after 3 years in Changi as a POW.In those days it was nearly impossible for women to borrow money, but she was still able to raise 3 kids and get them a tertiary education by running a small country store. She had a war service loan for her house that was only possible because of her own contribution to the war effort, which she paid off not long before she passed on at 84 years old. Her contemporaries thought she was so clever because she paid all her own bills, handled her own money and knew how to tune in and use a video recorder, player, as their husbands did all that for them and they only had their housekeeping money!

There was no money to make repayments on any highbrow investments.

My parents had a 300 acre dairy farm and employed a major farming specialist company to analyse and supply to improve the pasture, so it could be more productive. the work was done and paid for, it grew beautiful grass 4foot high, but was poisonous to cows and would take at least 7 years before it could be used, payments were still required on the property and somehow they survived, but didn't have any thing to invest with or any ability to make repayments if they could have borrowed.

 

[Aaron Sice]

I see your point, however, I believe that some landlords hold some responsibility in helping "poor old ladies" stay poor.

they're called RSLs and "pokies", i believe...

The way I see it, some landlords feed off the uneducated for as long as they can and don't give two hoots what happens to the tenant when the time comes for the bulldozer to demolish the house to make way for progress.

it's my house. they pay me a little for the privilege, and i subsidise their living standard.

I am all for developing and creating more wealth, however, creating win-win situations is what life is meant to be about. Isn't it?

yes - so offer them a house in the new development - first pick.

Cheers

Mick

..........

 

[BayView]

Well said. To pass judgement and make assumptions about a persons choices in life with minimal background information is precisely "bad form".

There seems to be trend recently from posters of being "holier than thou".

A little humility would go a long way.

Rooster

I was simply making an observation - totally based on a conversation - nay; me listening to a tirade against a perceived rich person, by a woman who is clearly poor.

Nothing against poor people - I've been poor for much of my existence.

Is it all her fault? I don't know 100% for sure, but the visual clues were a very good indication, and when you add in the "new car while living as a renter" time line, I'd say the evidence is strong that it was mostly self-inflicted.

It's a bit like say; your average 30 year old person now who, in 2009, goes out and buys a brand new Holden Conformadore - while they are renting, and then has a whinge that they are poor when they are 65.

Hellooo. Don't buy the brand new car - buy the $5k plod along until you are set up financially. It's called Delayed Gratification.

Yes, yes, we can argue that she didn't know better.

But, education is free for those who want it. And, if you don't make any effort in life to get ahead then that's fine too, but don't bloody whinge about it later in life - like she was.

At no stage did I ridicule her, but pointed out the all-too-common mindset that the less fortunate among us seem to adopt where they are resentful of those who have done well. Why be resentful?

Now, to me; you should strive to be like people who have done well, and look up to them and use their example as a guide to help you do the same - not shoot them down and be resentful because they've made it and you haven't.

We all know it doesn't necessarily take money to make money; it takes dedication, perseverance, sacrifice, delayed gratification, courage to take action when the opportunity arrives.

Rant over; I'm off for another chardy.

 

[Rooster]

Is it all her fault? I don't know 100% for sure, but the visual clues were a very good indication, and when you add in the "new car while living as a renter" time line, I'd say the evidence is strong that it was mostly self-inflicted.

Firstly Bayview, I wasn't aiming my post specifically at you. I can also see that your post was well intended and designed to provoke a bit of thought about other people's mindset.

I still think however that we, and i know i'm guilty of it too, unknowingly pass judgement or assume certain circumstances based on "visual clues".

Do we know how she got a brand new car? Did she purchase it herself? Or could there be a myriad of circumstances in which she came to have the car. Maybe she won it or maybe it was a gift?

All i'm trying to point out is that society, and this is speaking in a general sense, are very good at making snap decisions and forming a viewpoint, based on minimal "visual clues".

I also completely agree with the second half of your last post.

And as a side note, i didn't percieve your original post as ridicule.

Enjoy the chardy!!

Rooster

 

[Beef_Hooked]

I wouldn't bother to enter into the stale old argument of rich/poor mindset here on SS. Past experience has shown me the "rich mindset" can be a narrow path and I have far better things to do.

However I couldn't help think what incredible value the old dear has had out of her Kingy.

Purchase price in 1975 was about 4k
She's driven it for 34 years!!!
That's what, about 150 bucks a year.

She could probably sell it today for about 1k to an enthusiast, backpacker or even tight@rse landlord (hehe), so the cost is probably less than 100 bucks a year.

I know there was servicing insurance etc but a 5k bomb can cost the same amount again keeping the damn thing on the road. As a former motoring "enthusiast" I can attest to the ongoing costs associated with old cars. Mechanics must have retired on my past spending keeping 'oldens on the road.

Sounds like it was the best move she ever made as far as value. But I doubt the hypothetical youngster of today will get that sort of value out of the 09 commodore.

Cheers,
Beef.

 

[Ausprop]

But i can assure you, even though i have compassion to many people, i won't provide subsidised housing.

This is great. One less resi investor that I have to slap some sense into. My motivations for educating Aussies of the problems of resi IP are not selfless... I really think yields need to be a minimum of double and preferably triple of what thay are to reflect risk/reward. And even if I had no IPs I don't see why my tax dollars should subsidise the lesser affluent section of society into consumption of a consumer durable that their economic productivity does not warrant.

How will you invest in resi and not subsidise your tenants? Most of the places that yield 10%+ are considered by most investors on here to be too risky - bumpkin, but that's the consensus.

 

[Ausprop]

I know there was servicing insurance etc but a 5k bomb can cost the same amount again keeping the damn thing on the road.

not to mention the vast difference in safety and comfort. Unfortunately if some resi property investor in their falcon 500 has a brake failure and ploughs into the side of you then their savings have presented as a cost to you. Perhaps a ratcheting annual registration fee should apply to vehicles in order to tax the externalities they present

 

[HomeBuyAU]

However I couldn't help think what incredible value the old dear has had out of her Kingy.

Yes I was thinking the same thing when I consider how many cars I had over the years especially in the 80's as a 20 + year old... Now if I had bought just one car.... But yes a new car back then might have been a huge investment and you would have to look at the numbers, what was her pay, married etc but she has done damn well to still have it, good on her and I'd love to have the same car all my life.

So if we look at a typical woman and she is 70 it means she was born in 1939, grew up as a child in the WW2 years (and the depression). She would have been in the prime age group in her 20's as a 1960's hippy (anti establishment etc), 70s as a 30 something, probably married and lived as the typical stay at home house wife in the 70's. So she would have seen the 80's, 90's and this decade.

Education was not like it is now back in the 60's and many people just never got a good start and had to work at a factory etc. These days everyone has all the resources at their finger tips...

Most people could learn a lot from this woman, I'm sure she would have many experiences of life to share with anyone who wanted to listen to her and not judge her for her lack of money or accounting skills. But in saying that I do know what people mean when you get naive people going on about this and that but I don't think a 70 year old woman is a good example, maybe a 30 year old bogan would be better....

I know many people here have had to work hard to get where they are and those ones will respect a person like this woman as they know how life can be at the bottom for these people.

What's hard these days, breaking the PS3 or Xbox controller?

 

[Reality Cheque]

I'm sure this old lady has made lot of bad decisions in her life. And if she could read all of this I'm sure she'd feel that the last bad decision she made was her choice of car service centre.

If she had chosen to be a client of mine, personally I would have minded my own business and thanked her for hers.


RC

 

[evand]

Good post. Kudos to you.

I'm sure this old lady has made lot of bad decisions in her life. And if she could read all of this I'm sure she'd feel that the last bad decision she made was her choice of car service centre.

If she had chosen to be a client of mine, personally I would have minded my own business and thanked her for hers.


RC

 

[Perp]

Marc managed to run around and get her old car fixed, dropped her home, and politely listened while she gave a rant that he didn't agree with. I think those who are judging Marc are being much harsher with Marc, than he was with her.

To quote Kamahl: "Why are people so unkind?"

 

[evand]

This could go on forever. But don't forget Marc was being paid to fix her car (remember its his business) and to post in a condescending way on a public forum about the woman's (his customer) life choices and financial situation is not real kind either.

What do wealthy people care what non wealthy people think of them? Seriously!

Marc managed to run around and get her old car fixed, dropped her home, and politely listened while she gave a rant that he didn't agree with. I think those who are judging Marc are being much harsher with Marc, than he was with her.

To quote Kamahl: "Why are people so unkind?"

 

[Perp]

...to post in a condescending way on a public forum about the woman's (his customer) life choices and financial situation is not real kind either.

Oh, so it was "tit for tat"?

What do wealthy people care what non wealthy people think of them? Seriously!

Now I think we're getting somewhere in exposing what people really think. Why should a poor person care more what a rich person thinks of them, than the other way around? Why should a wealthy person have less regard for the opinion of a poor person than for the opinion of another wealthy person?

I don't think anybody in this thread has ill-intentions, and I'm not trying to make it about right vs wrong. I'm simply highlighting that everybody has some prejudices, whether they like it or not. (And yes, of course that includes me!)

 

[Harris]

...to post in a condescending way on a public forum about the woman's (his customer) life choices and financial situation is not real kind either.

Sorry but could not resist jumping in ...

Evand, this is the biggest hypocritical attitude that I have seen from you - If anyone judges the most in this forum without understanding or even remotely giving other person the opportunity to explain, it is you.

You are very adept at putting your "universally negative" 2 cents into every topic where a fellow forumite/ investor wants to either share his/her success story, being optimistic about future or expresses an opinion which is different to yours.

The tone of majority of your posts is extremely condescending and I am sure majority of the posters will agree with that.

If anyone that needs a dose of humility, it is you.

If you re-read Marc's post, it is clear as day that he is making an observation. Not very dis-similar to what almost all of us do very regularly.

We make observations and put our opinions when we need to explain things in certain context and that is exactly what Marc did.

You really need to lighten up Its ok to be contrarian as you always are (regardless of the topic) but its also good to have a good look at one's own self before accusing others and preaching humility.

Harris

This could go on forever. But don't forget Marc was being paid to fix her car (remember its his business) and to post in a condescending way on a public forum about the woman's (his customer) life choices and financial situation is not real kind either.

What do wealthy people care what non wealthy people think of them? Seriously!

 

[evand]

Now thats called getting personal. No need for that mate.

You cant deny that the overall tone of Marcs opening post was extremely condescending verging on ridicule. I'm not talking about analysing out of context paragraphs (as Rockstar did). I'm talking about the overall tone of the post. And also marcs last one about BMW drivers.

And i totally disagree with the points you make in your posts about me. Especially this one:

You are very adept at putting your "universally negative" 2 cents into every topic where a fellow forumite/ investor wants to either share his/her success story, being optimistic about future or expresses an opinion which is different to yours.

Can you give me examples of any of this?

In my initial post (and subsequent posts) in this thread i offered a constructive counter viewpoint to Marcs post (nothing negative at all). I received plenty of kudos for that. So either your view is at odds with the forum or you just like wasting your time hassling me. I'm guessing its the latter, but possibly both.

There are a few of posters on this forum who like to continually follow others members posts with disparaging remarks. You are one of them.

Sorry but could not resist jumping in ...

Evand, this is the biggest hypocritical attitude that I have seen from you - If anyone judges the most in this forum without understanding or even remotely giving other person the opportunity to explain, it is you.

You are very adept at putting your "universally negative" 2 cents into every topic where a fellow forumite/ investor wants to either share his/her success story, being optimistic about future or expresses an opinion which is different to yours.

The tone of majority of your posts is extremely condescending and I am sure majority of the posters will agree with that.

If anyone that needs a dose of humility, it is you.

If you re-read Marc's post, it is clear as day that he is making an observation. Not very dis-similar to what almost all of us do very regularly.

We make observations and put our opinions when we need to explain things in certain context and that is exactly what Marc did.

You really need to lighten up Its ok to be contrarian as you always are (regardless of the topic) but its also good to have a good look at one's own self before accusing others and preaching humility.

Harris

 

[bespoke]

Isn't it human nature to judge others? I would think its a basic human characteristic without which the human race may not have survived.

Without knowing it you probably make judgements on people every day.

For example:
You are walking down the street on your own and a group of youths dressed in street gang clothing is walking near you. Do you not in the slightest be a bit more aware of them and where you are, how you can protect yourself, all based on how they look. would you do the same thing if it was a bunch of 12 year old school kids or a bunch of pensioners in their bowls outfits?

Why do professional people wear suits etc to office jobs. Certainly not for the comfort, its for how they will be judged by their appearance.

You are a shop keeper who has a problem with theft and a person walks in who fits your idea of what a shop lifter looks like.

Everyone makes snap judgement everyday, you have to. The only person who can truely claim to not judge is a hermit.

 

[Rooster]

Isn't it human nature to judge others? I would think its a basic human characteristic without which the human race may not have survived.

Without knowing it you probably make judgements on people every day.

For example:
You are walking down the street on your own and a group of youths dressed in street gang clothing is walking near you. Do you not in the slightest be a bit more aware of them and where you are, how you can protect yourself, all based on how they look. would you do the same thing if it was a bunch of 12 year old school kids or a bunch of pensioners in their bowls outfits?

Why do professional people wear suits etc to office jobs. Certainly not for the comfort, its for how they will be judged by their appearance.

You are a shop keeper who has a problem with theft and a person walks in who fits your idea of what a shop lifter looks like.

Everyone makes snap judgement everyday, you have to. The only person who can truely claim to not judge is a hermit.

Exactly. You make a first impression.

You don't however, analyse their property investing shortfalls and there house renting mindset.

Rooster

 

[Neophyte]

Obama's book Audacity of Hope talks about these split second decisions in terms of sub-conscious racism. He admits he does it too. From memory his take home message was not to act to much on that impulse.