Preferred dwelling type

[Corey Batt]

House with 800sqm for me thanks.

Enough space to have few limitations, but within a manageable size. Character for bonus points (which would no doubt have/require an extension, so land size provides enough space).

I've lived in 2 bedders, 3 bedders on 500sqm, 4 bedders on 800sqm, 1800's farm houses on 500 acres.

4~ bed on 800sqm any day for my lifestyle.

When I was in university I also did property management, which covered a number of modern apartment complexes. It was a cookie cutter pattern, that 75% of renters taking up an apartment would not renew after 12 months, as they couldn't hack the lifestyle. I don't blame them. Apartments can provide a lot of functions in your lifestyle, but when you don't have the room for a dog, or having a bbq is a logistical nightmare, peoples value judgements change rapidly.

 

[cimbom]

When I was in university I also did property management, which covered a number of modern apartment complexes. It was a cookie cutter pattern, that 75% of renters taking up an apartment would not renew after 12 months, as they couldn't hack the lifestyle. I don't blame them. Apartments can provide a lot of functions in your lifestyle, but when you don't have the room for a dog, or having a bbq is a logistical nightmare, peoples value judgements change rapidly.

That's because apartments in Australia are largely 1) pretty poor quality compared to elsewhere in the world and 2) the number of suburbs that are are actually designed and/or suitable for apartment living are far fewer in number than the number of suburbs that have apartments.

 

[Hoffy]

You trim your edges? I just put on the backpack sprayer, filled will roundup, once every few months ... then leap on the ride on zero turn for some chill out time

Same. My 5 ac block takes far less time on maintenance than the 800sqM block I used to have.

 

[ZOMG]

PPOR is an apartment, would like to get a house with some land 500-700ish sqm. The problem with apartments are the hassles when we try to change anything. Oh you want new floorboards, gotta ask strata. Oh you want to install recessed ceiling lights? Gotta ask strata. You want to add a screen to your balcony? Yup, gotta ask strata.

And even more annoying, most of the walls in new apartments are gyprock which means good luck trying to attach things to it!!

 

[Corey Batt]

That's because apartments in Australia are largely 1) pretty poor quality compared to elsewhere in the world and 2) the number of suburbs that are are actually designed and/or suitable for apartment living are far fewer in number than the number of suburbs that have apartments.

You should spruik OTP apartments.

Not matter how well designed, an apartment cannot sufficiently provide for a lot of lifestyles, particularly ones which a large number of Australians live. The apartments I looked after were <5-6 years old, 70-100sqm, 3 bed/2 bath, private gated parking, elevators, usually gym + pool access). Within 500m of a bus/train hub 10 minutes commute to the CBD. There still was huge churn.

If you're into car culture, gardening, a lot of outdoor rec sports (kayaking etc), pet ownership (beyond sea monkeys and small pets), having your own pool, a yard for a cubbie house and swing set, a shed (mancave), entertaining any reasonable number of people - an apartment just isn't going to do it for you. This is just a few reasons why people said they needed to move (back) into a house.

And going through my circle of friends, they all have a reason why an apartment wouldn't suit their lifestyle.

Plus, it's not just difficult entertaining ~15-20 people in an apartment, it's a fire hazard!

 

[topcropper]

That's because apartments in Australia are largely 1) pretty poor quality compared to elsewhere in the world and 2) the number of suburbs that are are actually designed and/or suitable for apartment living are far fewer in number than the number of suburbs that have apartments.

You keep banging on about how bad urban sprawl is, yet haven't you just bought a typical freestanding house on a largish block? Why didn't you go the apartment in the CBD?


See ya's.

 

[cimbom]

The apartments I looked after were <5-6 years old, 70-100sqm, 3 bed/2 bath, private gated parking, elevators, usually gym + pool access). Within 500m of a bus/train hub 10 minutes commute to the CBD. There still was huge churn.

If you're into car culture, gardening, a lot of outdoor rec sports (kayaking etc), pet ownership (beyond sea monkeys and small pets), having your own pool, a yard for a cubbie house and swing set, a shed (mancave), entertaining any reasonable number of people - an apartment just isn't going to do it for you. This is just a few reasons why people said they needed to move (back) into a house.

Thanks for confirming my statement. A very big proportion of apartments are single use - i.e. a big block of units and nothing else. In most parts of the world where apartment living is common and not a "novelty", apartment buildings are mixed use. That is, there are shops and services on the bottom (and not just 1-2 but many) and the apartments are on the top. This creates places where people actually want to live (and gives small businesses customers) rather than creating segregated areas for housing and commercial properties which just results in a monopoly of shopping malls and the like.

Secondly, given the very low population density in Australia, most apartments, especially new ones, are proportionally so small as to be ridiculous. Think of the 40-50 sqm ones with a kitchen so small that it can't even be used for actual cooking. Yet it gets sold as something ridiculous like "luxury executive living" etc. Apartments of that size are not suitable for Australia and are not required. Not to mention the massive high-rise structures that are common place when even places as dense as Paris can manage with largely medium density housing.

Thirdly, we have quite a weird situation in Australia where most who live in apartments still own 1-2 cars because our cities are so sprawly that it's considered a requirement. In most real cities, owning cars is an annoyance more than a convenience. Even highly paid bankers in New York catch the subway. Over here, public transport is for the "plebs". We don't have proper infrastructure in place that supports widespread medium to high density living simply because this type of living is uncommon in Australia. And no, cars are not a form of "culture" - it's just a type of transportation.

Lastly, most of those things you mention as "missing" from apartment living are a result of our largely insular suburban lifestyles. That's why apartments don't work here because even people that live in them have a suburban mindset and expectations. In well-planned cities, people are out and about in the community more (and have more active and unique local neighbourhoods) whereas here, most day-to-day activites and interests take place inside the home. And we wonder why obesity is through the roof?

You keep banging on about how bad urban sprawl is, yet haven't you just bought a typical freestanding house on a largish block? Why didn't you go the apartment in the CBD?

See ya's.

Well yes, it's a "typical house" but it's 3kms from the town centre where I work. I actually wanted to buy an apartment but all the ones that were going up in that particular area were in big massive buildings (which I don't like - see above) and were very overpriced for what they were. I'm sure if you do a search on here you can find many of the threads where I've discussed this. Not to mention that many of them are seeing a drop in price along with a drop in rent. I would have purchased one in a heartbeat if it was in a small boutique type block and represented realistic value for money (along with reasonable prospects for CG). Most we could afford didn't even have enough room for a small study type space for my husband (apparently these are worth 30-50k more ). So I just moved 3kms out and got a house.

 

[Ideo]

I agree with all of the above.

My sister and BiL moved to London about 2 years ago.

He is high up in investment banking and has a really high income.

They haven't owned a car since moving there. The public transport is excellent, so they don't need to. If they want to go away for the weekend they just rent a car.

Here, unless you live in one or 2 suburbs you need a car. Because there is not enough density of population to justify having a good public transport network - and there is not enough density because there is not enough public transport.

The apartment they have has a big, usable kitchen and is actually a functioning living space. Here, I'm looking at nice, modern apartments. Some of them, even 2 bedroom ones, don't even have an oven. You get a sink, a 2 burner cooktop, a dishwasher and a microwave. But 2 parking spaces. How ridiculous is that?

 

[kathryn d]

The apartment they have has a big, usable kitchen and is actually a functioning living space. Here, I'm looking at nice, modern apartments. Some of them, even 2 bedroom ones, don't even have an oven. You get a sink, a 2 burner cooktop, a dishwasher and a microwave. But 2 parking spaces. How ridiculous is that?

Maybe they think these buyers don't cook at home.
Seems many people don't.

 

[cimbom]

The apartment they have has a big, usable kitchen and is actually a functioning living space. Here, I'm looking at nice, modern apartments. Some of them, even 2 bedroom ones, don't even have an oven. You get a sink, a 2 burner cooktop, a dishwasher and a microwave. But 2 parking spaces. How ridiculous is that?

Exactly. It doesn't make sense at all.

 

[ok180]

At the moment we are in a 4x bedroom house single storey home on a 500m2 block. Ideally we would like a block around 1000-2000m2. I need a BIG garage. You hardly ever see a house with anything more than a tiny 2x car garage out here, I want to be able to get out of my car without having to contort my body like an eastern european gymnast thanks.

When I was a kid we lived on 5 acres. I kind of still would like the space but it is a lot of maintenance.

 

[EN710]

Dream: A reasonably sized house (2-3 bed is more than enough!) with big low maintenance yard and a pool and 2-3 dogs
Reality: 1 bed apartment near train line so we can go to work quickly and conveniently

Maybe one day....

 

[Corey Batt]

Thanks for confirming my statement. A very big proportion of apartments are single use - i.e. a big block of units and nothing else. In most parts of the world where apartment living is common and not a "novelty", apartment buildings are mixed use. That is, there are shops and services on the bottom (and not just 1-2 but many) and the apartments are on the top. This creates places where people actually want to live (and gives small businesses customers) rather than creating segregated areas for housing and commercial properties which just results in a monopoly of shopping malls and the like.

Ground level commercial with resi above isn't exactly revolutionary. All of the aforementioned apartments were this setup.

Thirdly, we have quite a weird situation in Australia where most who live in apartments still own 1-2 cars because our cities are so sprawly that it's considered a requirement. In most real cities, owning cars is an annoyance more than a convenience. Even highly paid bankers in New York catch the subway. Over here, public transport is for the "plebs". We don't have proper infrastructure in place that supports widespread medium to high density living simply because this type of living is uncommon in Australia. And no, cars are not a form of "culture" - it's just a type of transportation.

Thanks Cimbom for letting society know that there is no such thing as car culture. All the car collectors, restorers, modifications and performance groups can pack up and go home now.

Lastly, most of those things you mention as "missing" from apartment living are a result of our largely insular suburban lifestyles. That's why apartments don't work here because even people that live in them have a suburban mindset and expectations. In well-planned cities, people are out and about in the community more (and have more active and unique local neighbourhoods) whereas here, most day-to-day activites and interests take place inside the home. And we wonder why obesity is through the roof?

And if people have suburban mindsets, why shouldn't they favour detached living? When a product is brought to market, it's meant to meet the needs of the consumer. If apartments don't suit the needs of many Australian's, I'd say that's a failing of the property type than suggest Australian's adjust to a completely different lifestyle.

I really don't understand the need for extensive medium/high density living in one of the most sparsely populated countries on earth.

 

[EN710]

That's because apartments in Australia are largely 1) pretty poor quality compared to elsewhere in the world and 2) the number of suburbs that are are actually designed and/or suitable for apartment living are far fewer in number than the number of suburbs that have apartments.

Bahahahahaha... it's poor quality until you see the apartment my mum bought in my home country (30sqm for 2 bed). And the ridiculously small apartment in Singapore vs the price.

 

[Ideo]

I'm a car enthusiast. I've managed to deal with that in apartment and inner city living.

 

[Corey Batt]

I'm a car enthusiast. I've managed to deal with that in apartment and inner city living.

Lies.

Do you have 3+ cars, or do restorations? A lot of the car related hobbies can be quite spatially intensive - this is what I'm getting at.

Anyone who bangs on saying that medium/high density living can suit most people is really failing to understand how Australian culture and it's recreational activities use space and land.

And with 2/3's of Australian households having pets, I'm yet to see how that is sufficiently catered for.

 

[Ideo]

Lies.

Do you have 3+ cars, or do restorations? A lot of the car related hobbies can be quite spatially intensive - this is what I'm getting at.

Anyone who bangs on saying that medium/high density living can suit most people is really failing to understand how Australian culture and it's recreational activities use space and land.

And with 2/3's of Australian households having pets, I'm yet to see how that is sufficiently catered for.

I worked up a track spec MX5 in an underground security car park. Not enough space for a full engine swap, but what tiny proportion of the population actually does that? My mechanic took care of the swap from a short crank NA6 to a 1.8 from a NB but things like changing springs, sorting out the electrics etc etc were doable.

In the same unit block there was someone turbo'ing a Honda S2000 and a guy tinkering with his Ducatti and Maserati 3200GT most weekends. Was quite a car friendly block of units.

But, in reality, what tiny percentage of the population actually restore cars, or do anything more than a basic oil change at home?

Decent amounts of storage are far more of an issue. And most project homes/new builds provide abysmal levels of storage. I assess them on a daily basis. It ends up that the double garage is used for the storage of hobbies that are given up, and the cars parked on the street/in the driveway anyway.

 

[Corey Batt]

But, in reality, what tiny percentage of the population actually restore cars, or do anything more than a basic oil change at home?

Decent amounts of storage are far more of an issue. And most project homes/new builds provide abysmal levels of storage. I assess them on a daily basis. It ends up that the double garage is used for the storage of hobbies that are given up, and the cars parked on the street/in the driveway anyway.

And if you go to my first post about how a large % of the population have a reason to want/require/need a suburban house. Car enthusiasts are just one of a plethora of reasons. The total of all these hobbies represent a large % of the population without a doubt.

We can't all be latte sipping posers sitting in cafes updating our instagram accounts, some people like to do things on their properties.

It's hilarious to be honest, it's like watching a person repeatdly state that a Fiat 500 can fulfill all needs. Except for all the other needs besides Point A to B travel. But that's ok because you only need to adjust your needs and wants.

 

[Ideo]

So just ignoring the fact that I managed to do something you said was impossible then?

Oh - also managed to do fit an upgraded intercooler, intake and catch can on my Golf.

Didn't do the dump pipe - that goes in the pay people to do it for me even when I have the room category.

 

[ok180]

Ideo, please. These "cars" you do up. Golfs, MX5's etc. lol