Property Byers Network (copied from caveat emptor)

From: M F


*** I have copied this thread across from the Caveat Emptor section because I think has become more of a general discussion about PBN that many people may be interested in. It starts off as an advert re a special on educational courses offered by PBN and leads into some questions about the organisations credibility and services. ***
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Topic: Property Education - Special Offer (1 of 8), Read 183 times
Conf: Caveat Emptor
From: Mark Pardi pardim@propertybuyersnetwork.com.au
Date: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 02:33 PM

One of the services provided by Property Buyers Network is a Property Investment Training Course. We provide a 2 day, highly interactive and comprehensive training program (refer to www.propertybuyersnetwork.com.au for more details).

On 11th and 12th May in Sydney only, we are holding a special Training Course, primarily for professionals including Financial Planners, Accountants and Mortgage Brokers. Professionals regularly attend our Training Course to "test us out" before recommending their clients to use our services.

To undertake this Training Program normally costs in excess of $ 2,000.00. For this Training Course only, we would like to extend an offer to the Forum whereby you can undertake the entire 2 day course for only $500.00.

If ever you were considering property investment education, now is the time to act. This is a most comprehensive and independent training program. Some other "trainers" charge more than $ 10,000 for similar (or less) training content. You can do this for only $500.00.

This not-to-be-repeated offer is only for Sydney, and only the course being held on 11th and 12th May. Future courses will be at our normal price.

If you would like further information about our course content and program, or wish to book in for this course, please ring me directly on (02) 9025 3555 or email me on info@propertybuyersnetwork.com.au.

Mark Pardi
General Manager
www.propertybuyersnetwork.com.au

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Topic: Property Education - Special Offer (2 of 8), Read 178 times
Conf: Caveat Emptor
From: Nigel W
Date: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 03:14 PM

Mark

That sounds like a good offer. Is it the course "A" or course "B" from your website?

Also, would you be able to post a list of the topics which will be discussed?

AND, another question, and please don't be offended by the tone....

Your website states that you will teach people how to consistently buy "wholesale" and not retail. If in fact you and your team can always, or even "usually" buy for 80% of market value, why are you guys wasting your time running courses?!

Surely, being able to consistently buy at 80% and sell (or revalue) at 100% (or even 98%) is a licence to print money?

Forgive me if my tone sounds a bit facetious - I understand that things are never as simple as they seem...BUT it seems to me that one of the cardinal sins of all seminar promoters is that they massively underplay the sheer hard work and leg work and pinch of luck that is required to buy well.

The phrase "buy wholesale" rolls off the tongue easily. Whereas to do so in practice is in fact very difficult.

Whilst I have managed to buy below what I considered "market value" on 3 occasions, I'd looked at several hundred properties to do so, and "run the numbers and discarded" probably several thousand.

I've posted this here rather than in an email because I think we'd all be genuinely interested in hearing more about your course.

Cheers
N.
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Topic: Property Education - Special Offer (3 of 8), Read 178 times
Conf: Caveat Emptor
From: Mark Pardi pardim@propertybuyersnetwork.com.au
Date: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 03:46 PM

Nigel,

Thanks for your questions.

The offer is for both courses. The website details the topics being discussed. Basically, the first day is very much about "buy and hold" and all the related aspects including finance, property management, structure, financials etc.

Day 2 is totally different dealing with Lease Options, Wrapping, Joint Ventures, touching on development, adding value, negotiation - and importantly buying below bank valuation.

The question relating to why we bother running education courses is a good one. We do so for one sole reason - we like working with knowledgeable clients. If a client has the knowledge, they are more likely to be successful, more fully understand the investment strategies we might suggest to them and fully appreciate our acquisition service.

Let me tell you, people are generally very reticent to part with their hard-earned on training or education, which is very frustrating. It is our belief that YOU are your most important asset, and you should firstly invest in yourself to gain the necessary knowledge to become successful. Unfortunately, too few people do, and remain financially insecure.

We don't consider our education courses as money makers. We clearly make most of our money from our Acquisition Service.

Regarding buying properties wholesale, I couldn't agree with your comments more. We never say it's easy. It's actually bloody hard work - and we tell our students this. But, it is totally possible to achieve if you are willing to do the work. Most people, including our own students who learn how to do it, wont actually go out and do it themselves. I believe this would be true of all training courses, particularly the high profile ones. People either lack the time or the confidence to do it.

It is this exact reason that we provide our acquisition service where we will do all the work for you, because people either can't or wont do it for themselves.

For those that are interested, I have posted below a brief summary of how our Acquisition Department do what they do. We consistently acquire property for our clients significantly below bank valuation. This is the summary as to how we do it:

PROPERTY ACQUISITION SERVICE

HOW DO WE NEGOTIATE BELOW BANK VALUATION PRICE?

· We are skilled property professionals experienced in property negotiation

· We only deal with “motivated sellers” – people who have a genuine reason as to why they would accept a lower than market price for their property

· Motivation can be increased through a number of factors including – death, divorce, distress, debt problems, lack of tenants, disgruntled landlords, interstate or overseas transfers, pre-sale requirements, non-settlement of a previous sale, purchased another property, inability to cope with the mortgage, no suitable offers on their property, not aware of true market price etc.

· We do not deal with real estate agents or properties that are already listed for sale

· We do not attend auctions

· We always deal directly with the vendor

· We know every single development being undertaken in Melbourne and Sydney

· We have direct access to all developers across Melbourne and Sydney

· We know about development projects before they even have their Planning Permits

· We know about and have access to projects that never make the retail market

· When dealing with a developer – he doesn’t have to pay sales commissions to an agent, advertising costs, marketing costs etc. We can immediately negotiate up to 10% off the price by this fact alone

· With established properties, most properties we locate and negotiate are not even for sale when we first approach them

· We spend countless man-hours researching and sifting through properties to find truly motivated sellers

· We know how to beat real estate agents, vendors and developers at their own game

· We very ethically and skilfully apply proven negotiation strategies to achieve a win for our clients

Nigel, we have an entire team that does this day in, day out, very successfully. They are experienced, well trained and well contacted. We realise that for the "average" person, it is far more difficult.

I hope this helps, and I look forward to you booking in for our course!!

Mark Pardi
General Manager
www.propertybuyersnetwork.com.au

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Topic: Property Education - Special Offer (4 of 8), Read 191 times
Conf: Caveat Emptor
From: The Wife the_wife@freestyler.net.au
Date: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 03:53 PM

Mark,

This is written very much like the investment Institute, are you connected in anyway?

Cheers TW

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Topic: Property Education - Special Offer (5 of 8), Read 196 times
Conf: Caveat Emptor
From: Mark Pardi pardim@propertybuyersnetwork.com.au
Date: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 04:10 PM

TW,

We are in NO WAY connected with The Investment Institute.

Our company is owned by private property investors who wanted to build a Business Model that provided real and tangible benefits to property investors in the most ethical and client beneficial manner. We are very proud of what we do and achieve for our clients.

To be fair, property investment isn't rocket science, and there is nothing particularly new about the various investment strategies. With training, it is more the way it is presented rather than the content that makes the difference between various courses. I would suggest that most courses, whether it by ours, The Investment Institute, Henry Kaye etc. are pretty much the same. What does vary, however, is the cost of the knowledge imparted and whether the company has a product to sell you at the end of it.

Likewise, buying wholesale isn't rocket science either. The list of ways we do it that I posted would be practiced by lot's of people. I am sure you apply many of these principles yourself.

We don't really care about what any one else in this business does, nor what they provide. All we care about is the results for our clients.

Sorry, got a bit carried away. To reconfirm, we are not connected with The Investment Institute or any other company in any way. We are privately owned, operating in Melbourne and Sydney, and will be in Adelaide, Perth and Brisbane very shortly.

Mark Pardi
General Manager
www.propertybuyersnetwork.com.au

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Topic: Property Education - Special Offer (6 of 8), Read 146 times
Conf: Caveat Emptor
From: M F frearson@hotmail.com
Date: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 10:59 PM

Mark,

Just a quick due diligence question in relation to your company. Please don't take offence but in order to establish a good customer base I think one of the most important things you'll need to establish is that the people who run your organisation are trustworthy. IE - the directors, owners, or what ever title is relevant to those who are involved in upper management and financial ownership.

Are you in a position to say that No Person involved in your company in this way has ever been charged with a fraud or theft related criminal offence, or been subject of any charges or disciplinary action from any non police government organisations or related industry watchdogs??

If you were in a position to say that no person had been involved in any such behaviour / incidents I think you would go along way to convincing people you're legitimate. I'd like to believe you are, but forgive me for being suspicious. In my occupation (Detectives) I see plenty of reason to be very cautious.

MF.

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Topic: Property Education - Special Offer (7 of 8), Read 129 times
Conf: Caveat Emptor
From: Mark Pardi pardim@propertybuyersnetwork.com.au
Date: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 09:51 AM

MF,

The Directors of Property Buyers Network (NSW) Pty. Ltd. are myself and Terry Waugh – a private property investor. I am a Licensed Real Estate Agent,

The sole Director of Property Buyers Network (VIC) Pty. Ltd. is John LeHunt. John is also a Licensed Real Estate Agent.

I am the General Manager for Sydney, Grenville Sylvester is the General Manager for Melbourne.

There are three shareholders in NSW and three in Victoria.

No Directors, shareholders or upper management have any criminal background. As both companies are Corporate Licensed Real Estate Agents, the respective authorities do their own due diligence on this very issue before they issue a licence.

Although I am happy to answer your questions, I would much rather be talking about property investment and how to profit from it.

Mark Pardi
General Manager
www.propertybuyersnetwork.com.au

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Topic: Property Education - Special Offer (8 of 8), Read 105 times
Conf: Caveat Emptor
From: Mike .
Date: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 11:42 AM
Attn: Les . (Les)


Hi Les,

Here is another Caveat Emptor thread I believe should not be deleted. It is obvious that the questions asked and Mark's replies would be of interest to future forum members. I hope you and Ian reconsider your current policy of deleting threads when they become "old". Unless the company goes out of business I don't see a need to delete the thread. Even if the company does go out of business, the objectives and business model as described by Mark make for interesting reading.

Regards, Mike

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To : Mark PARDI
From : MF

Mark,

Thanks for your response. I wish to clarify a few things though. You referred to the fact that no shareholders, stakeholders or upper management have a criminal history (I am in particular referring to fraud and theft related offences of course). You did not however refer specifically to the fact that none of these people have ever been proceeded against by any industry watchdogs, non police government organisations or alike. Probably just an oversight but something I'd like to clear up.

I know you said the respective industry authorities that licence your organisation and people do their own due diligence. This may be correct but in general these types of organisations are toothless tigers who do little investigation and even less enforcement of associated rules, ethics or laws. Also the ones that are non government (industry related organisations eg. Real Estate Institutes and alike) usually require you to conform to their ethical standards to be included as a member. These don't usually have any authority to punish inappropriate or dishonest behaviour by way of legal action, and at worse withdraw your membership (Correct me if I'm wrong here). They also tend to be very lenient and can have a very different view of what is unethical or dishonest behaviour when they rely on the membership of the people they're supposed to police for their existence. I make these points simply to explain that just because you've been given a licence doesn't mean you pass the ethical or honesty standards I (and many others) would require before I placed full trust in your organisation.

Also I have a question about your fees. The $1000 registration fee for the acquisition service (from your website) is listed as fully refundable. There is also reference to it being credited towards the purchase fee if a property is purchased. So does this mean the cost of the service is $1000 per request, and if a property is purchased it's absorbed by the percentage fee charged, but if no property is purchased you keep the $1000 for your time and research? Or is the $1000 a one off all time fee for registration not payable for further requests?

Also, I noticed there is a separate negotiation service with associated fees. Am I right in assuming that the acquisition service includes negotiation in the package? And that the negotiation service as a separate service would be for a situation say where someone identified their own particular property for purchase and just wanted to engage your services purely to negotiate the price?

Thanks for your time your responses are much appreciated.

MF
 
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From: Mark Pardi


MF,

Thanks for your comments. Your questions initiate a response which can’t be seen as anything else but advertising, and as such, I am more comfortable for this thread to be in Caveat Emptor rather than in the Property Investor Forum where you have now posted it. I don’t want us to be seen as spamming, so if we respond in Caveat Emptor I believe it is more appropriate. For this reason, our responses have been placed back in Caveat Emptor where we believe they belong.

Straight to the point about our fees. Our clients asks us to find a property that meets their brief. We source and locate the property, negotiate the price to below bank valuation and undertake extreme due diligence on the property. There is a lot of work that goes into this.

So we know we are not wasting our time, we ask our client to pay us $1,000 up front. The only reason we do this is to ensure that the client is serious and not just a “tyre-kicker”. If a client is not prepared to pay this upfront fee, then they are not really serious about wanting us to find them a property, and quite honestly, we don’t really want them as a client on this basis. We have too many real clients to worry about people who are not serious.

If the client subsequently purchases a property we have found for them, the $ 1,000 is credited from the overall fee. If they don’t purchase a property for any reason, the $ 1,000 is refunded. We don’t keep it for our time and research. Having said that, we have just on Friday made a change to our overall acquisition service to make it even more beneficial for our clients. Of the $1,000 fee paid up front, $ 700 of it is refundable at any time, for any reason. $ 300 of the fee is not refundable. This is because as part of our service, our clients meet with a Property Consultant who works with them to develop their personal investment strategy, organise their finance, arrange meetings with professionals if they need help re tax minimisation, asset protection etc. So, the worst case scenario for someone who does not purchase a property is that they have spent $300, but they have in return received many tangible benefits and services.

Regarding the negotiation service, this is for people who have already found their own property and want us to negotiate the purchase price as low as possible for them. It is a totally different service to our acquisition service. This service is available to both owner occupiers and investors, whereas the acquisition service is only for investors.

As far as placing full trust in our organisation, it is quite simple. We don’t sell property – we provide a service, and the most ethical service in the industry. Almost every company in this industry sells property, and many of them provide a whole range of good services as well. But, in every case, there is a hidden margin built into the price which is the commission for the seller. The trouble has been that purchasers have never known what margin this is. I have seen margins for sellers up to $ 50,000 which is loaded onto the price, and it is the poor old purchaser who pays for this.

With our service, we have no margin. We simply receive a fee from our client, so whatever price we can negotiate the property down to, this is what the client pays. Full disclosure. As a real estate agency, we are prohibited by law from taking fees from both the vendor and the purchaser, so the purchaser knows they are paying the absolute lowest price.

If a client decides to purchase a property from us, we provide them with a full due diligence report including a sworn valuation. Before agreeing to purchase the property, however, we tell our clients to have their solicitor to review the contract of sale to ensure it is acceptable, and also for them to spend money to have a second valuation done on their behalf to ensure the price is correct. This is standard risk management issues that everyone should do before buying any property.

We do all the work for the client, and what are they risking? $ 300.00. If they don’t like the property we find for them, they don’t have to buy it. Simple as that.

I hope this clarifies your questions. I am not comfortable continuing to outline our services or our company in great detail on this Forum. I am concerned it is turning into the Mark Pardi Forum. I respect the purpose of Caveat Emptor, and I don’t want to abuse this Forum and clog it up with PBN advertising. I respectfully suggest to anyone who wishes to know more about the company or our services, they simply give me a ring or send me an email. I would be happy to talk to you or have a consultant visit you to explain everything in great detail.

I really do appreciate your interest and if you have any more queries or questions, I look forward to either speaking with you directly or meeting with you.

Mark Pardi
General Manager NSW
www.propertybuyersnetwork.com.au
 
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Reply: 1.1
From: M F


Mark,

Thanks again for your time and answers. They are much appreciated. I understand the thread started off as an advert but it became more of a discussion about the credibility of your org. There is alot of interest on the forum in relation to such things (of yours and other orgs). That's why I moved it. Alot of people would have missed it in the Caveat Emptor. Anyway, I'm pretty much finished with questions at this stage. I couldn't see any answer directly addressing the issue of non police related action for dishonesty or alike (by industry watchdogs etc). I am correct in assuming no action of this kind has ever been taken against the previously nominated people / org ?

I'll get in contact by email with any other minor questions. Thanks for your help.

MF.
 
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