Property crash not likely: David Koch

Property crash not likely
Author: David Koch
Date: June 2, 2008

http://www.domain.com.au/Public/Art...=Property crash not likely&s_rid=smh:Homepage


Rapid increases in interest rates have slammed Australian home owners with a mortgage to a point where they are now making the highest repayments in the developed world. Thankfully, one consolation is that generally house values are holding up.

I know there is a big increase in home repossessions and loan defaults, and property values are relatively stagnant, but compared with the rest of the world our real estate prices are staying pretty solid.

The question now is whether Australian residential property prices are overvalued and could we see the same sort of cracks which are happening overseas.

The news from overseas is just appalling. A recent US house price survey by the National Association of Realtors recorded an average 7.7 per cent drop for the year to March - the biggest fall since records started in 1982.

Would you believe states such as California and Florida are seeing average falls of up to 30 per cent over the past year as the credit crunch bites hard. At this stage 1-in-194 homes in the US have been repossessed and that ratio is climbing constantly. There are reports that some financiers are repossessing homes and then asking the owners to stay rent free to protect the property from vandals.

Now there are fears this sort of property crash could spread to Britain based on its current valuations. Average house prices in Britain are running at six times average earnings, which is way above the historic average of 3.7 times wages.

Australian residential property values are currently double Britain's historic high - 12 times earnings in Sydney and 10 times in Melbourne.

Australian mortgage repayments are 57 per cent of average incomes compared with 50 per cent in Britain where the historic average is just 30 per cent.

A recent survey in The Economist magazine says Australia has the most overvalued residential property in the world.

All these comparisons make for very nervous reading and you'd think would point to an impending crash the size of that in the US. That may very well be the case a few years down the track.

But for the moment there appears to be a couple of significant planks underpinning Australian property values.

Firstly, the high skilled and business immigration numbers combined with low construction levels is creating a shortage of supply accentuated by the banks tightening development financing.

Full employment also means that even though higher loan repayments are stretching family budgets, household incomes won't fall.
The other factor is the rental crisis. Strongly rising rents are usually a precursor to rising values as investors chase property to take advantage of the strong yields.

For property owners it looks like a crash in values isn't on the cards for at least a few years. For those looking to get on the property merry-go-round for the first time, property is not going to get any more affordable either.

But it seems there is hope of picking up an affordable bargain if you know where to look.

Last week on my Sunrise program we interviewed Terry Ryder who is a former property writer and now runs a business called Hot Spotting, which analyses property issues.

Terry Ryder put together a list of the top 12 places to buy a house for under $200,000. Yep, $200,000 and many on the list are well below that level down to $90,000 in one area.

Now before you chortle and say they must be in the middle of nowhere, Ryder's 12 locations all have good community facilities and reasonably good employment prospects for people moving there, because they're booming.

There are only two locations on the list close to a capital city - Melton near Melbourne and Elizabeth on the outskirts of Adelaide.
Ryder says most areas close to Sydney and Brisbane were priced out of this list.

His personal pick is Parkes in regional NSW because of its location as a transport hub.

In Queensland, Charters Towers is the best pick while in NSW there's Broken Hill, Glen Innes and Inverell.

In Victoria, the best buys are Gippsland, Melton and Mildura.

Further south in Tassie, George Town and the Rosebery-Zeehan area are on the list.

In South Australia, Elizabeth rounds out the top 12.
Source: The Sun-Herald
 
the title should read, Property crash not likely... yet: David Koch

Another thing i noticed is that our property prices are 12x the wage where as in england its 6. But our repayments are 57% of our wage compared to 50% of england.

What does this mean?
 
cause

difference is caused by interest rate differentials and average wages differentials (after tax would be a more meaningful mesaure)

i've always argued you can't really compare houses across borders unless you know the interest rate differentials..

for example assume everything else constant, if rates were half that in a foreign country, i could afford to buy a house that is twice the value of that in Australia and still be the same...
 
the title should read, Property crash not likely... yet: David Koch

Another thing i noticed is that our property prices are 12x the wage where as in england its 6. But our repayments are 57% of our wage compared to 50% of england.

What does this mean?

We love our property?

There is not going to be a crash any time soon. Folks have been talking about it for years. In fact the Economist had an article about our high house prices in 2002/03, still got the article at home. If you had of taken the Economists advice back then you would have missed some great capital gains - everywhere - it was like shooting fish in a barrel.

Food for thought? :cool:
 
also you cant compare house prices, with other countries, due to the fact we have diffrent currencies, and the reason we have inflation is due to the US $ backing comodities, so if we throw this in the mix, we see that diffrent countries are in different positions. Australia is a lot better off then the US, not even a comparison.
 
Had my usual bout of insomina last night and I was channel surfing between the cricket & CNBC (US business trading shows). They were talking about the Florida market and were showing one example of a house that had sold in 2006 for $691k and had recently sold for $220k :eek:. Now that's a bubble.....For the misery feeders at GHPC, you could live off that fact for a few weeks.... ;)

For existing homes, they had indicated that prices in Florida had fallen 29% in the last 12 months, but sales activity had increased 41%. The concensus amongst the so-called experts that the US was close to the bottom, but prices were to remain stagnant for another 12-18 months.

As for newly built homes, the story was more bearish. They did give an example of a builder having a sale offer of buy one property, get another one for free :eek: It was a $1.6m house and they would throw in another house worth $400k

As for Koch's article, would anyone seriously contemplate investing in Gippsland & Mildura? :confused:
 
Australians also have the highest retention and accumulation rate of property per capita than anywhere else in the world.

we have a labour shortage and strong skilled immigration with not enough homes to house them.

i would like to know why some people think this huge crash is coming. we are already seeing and will continue to see some slightly negative growth for a few years. i think we will wear 4-5% pa off the MEDIAN house price across all states.

how low can it go? when yields get back to 6%, 7%, 8% then investors will start buying.

when investors start buying, the regular buyers will slowly emerge again.
 
Yield Matters, Hired Goon, where are you? This thread is begging for your input.

I'm a pretty simple bloke and reduce most things to the supply/demand equation.

Markets periodically go berserk. Toward the end of a boom, demand ramps up and people (investors and owner occupiers) seem to lose all sense of logic. Their panic and exhuberance adds the froth that gets blown off pretty quickly when the bubble bursts.

We've seen this happen often in the apartment markets in most cities. And we've all heard the stories about the people who paid $950K for homes in that street in Kellyville (Sydney) that are now worth $550K. (That beats Florida hands down.) Look at most of Sydney's western and south western suburbs and there would be plenty of people who own houses worth perhaps 40% less than what they paid for them.

We haven't had the massive oversupply issue the US had, but demand here is getting hammered - money is harder to get, and getting more and more expensive. And people are wary of the future. So prices drop.

The fact that there is no solution yet to the supply issue here means that, prices will drop till people perceive them to be fair value. That point will vary from sub market to sub market. I know in Sydney's depressed areas, houses are selling. So there are people who figure they may have found a floor. Who knows whether they are right. But at some time, more and more people will think prices in some places have bottomed out and they will start buying. Demand will go up. As will prices. And so it goes.

Scott
 
i would like to know why some people think this huge crash is coming. we are already seeing and will continue to see some slightly negative growth for a few years. i think we will wear 4-5% pa off the MEDIAN house price across all states.

how low can it go? when yields get back to 6%, 7%, 8% then investors will start buying.

when investors start buying, the regular buyers will slowly emerge again.

The arguments mainly fall to the fact that debt is the highest it has been, average incomes cannot afford it etc.

This however ignores the fact that people who buy the expensive houses aren't starting from scratch, and that there are always cheaper dwellings somewhere.

I'm sure there are a multitude of other reasons they trot out every time, but I'm more interested in finding opportunities, than focusing on why the world is coming to an end.
 
Michael Matusik gave some interesting facts the other day about comparing the US and Australia. The US has 16 months oversupply of housing while Australia has 30% undersupply. In Qld there were 961 repossessions writs last year (12 months to March 08) – bad as this is for the people involved this represents 0.0053% of the market! So the US comparison is a tricky one to make (for slides of the presentation at BIG see here http://www.matusik.com.au/Portals/0/Matusik Files/PDF Documents/Big Investments - 27th May 2008.pdf.)

Also I'm not sure what I should make of a 4% fall of property prices in the UK in the last year (The Australian had a bit of a beat-up article about that). The share market does that in a day easily. Wouldn't that be part of the noise that's generated when comparing median house prices across a country?

kaf
 
I don't agree with David Kochs view, the forces against the housing market in Australia are far stronger than those supporting it. Average values of 10 and 12 times earnings are completely unsustainable, I think it's irresponsible of him to claim that 'property is not going to get any more affordable'

When a crash comes, it comes quick. Fear, and dwindling equity, will cause buyer demand to evaporate. A 20% average correction is quite feasible.
 
I don't agree with David Kochs view, the forces against the housing market in Australia are far stronger than those supporting it. Average values of 10 and 12 times earnings are completely unsustainable, I think it's irresponsible of him to claim that 'property is not going to get any more affordable'

When a crash comes, it comes quick. Fear, and dwindling equity, will cause buyer demand to evaporate. A 20% average correction is quite feasible.

"Average" earnings are irrelevant if your target audience doesnt earn "average" wages.
 
Michael Matusik gave some interesting facts the other day about comparing the US and Australia. The US has 16 months oversupply of housing while Australia has 30% undersupply.
I get tired of that argument as it's misleading. The USA also had a massive undersupply before it all fell apart - even George Bush said so! People with vested interests tend to forget that and not even mention it when they do the comparison with the USA.
 
The USA also had a massive undersupply before it all fell apart - even George Bush said so!

Gee YM, your sources are usually a bit better than that. Did the US have an undersupply, and then build too much to end up with an oversupply? It's that pendulum thing. I don't know, just speculating.
 
I think in the case of Oz, migration plays a great part in differentiating from the US experience.

The proportion of the migration cohort to the size of the recipient nation. In the case of Oz, it is going to be about the largest on record. It is not just any migration group, it is a skilled and financially sound group. This is the group that is supporting the RE.

What does this group think about the price of properties is a relevant issue as it supports the price. I suggest that the bulk of the skilled group is from the asian region where to get a house in their country takes more than the historical 3 times annual salary, a figure that has been cited a number of times (YM would know it). There is a fundamental shift going on in the expectation of years of work or work required to get a house and that will be built in when the migrants have settled in. Price of OO house tends to be downwardly inelastic. There will also be a positive shift in the expectation of owning a property vs the typical caucasian thinking of renting.

Plus the flow of high earning expatriates returning with higher strength exchange rates to Oz due to the strength of the Oz economy, said to be 20,000 from UK alone, and you have another significant supporting group for RE.

No figures to support this generalisation but my gut feeling. :)
 
I dont have any generalised figures, but I can tell you what I see in Shanghai.

I rent a 3 bedroom apartment for around $USD 4,000 per month. It comes with a twice a week maid service, but it is still bloody expensive. It is close to the CBD and a train station, but the nearest "cafe" strip is 3km walk away and it takes me a good 30 - 35 minutes on the train to get down to Nanjing Xi Lu (downtown). This place would probably sell for upwards of $AUD 900K, if I wanted to buy it. Landed houses are upwards of $AUD 1.5 million.

This is also not a Laowi (white dude) price, as my Chinese mates are also looking for houses and they are telling me the prices. They cannot afford houses close in, so they live a long way away, often a 1 - 1.5 hour commute, on multiple forms of public transport. They are paying the equivalent of around $AUD 450 - $AUD 500K for housing, and it's only small 2 bed apartments. The commute is a nightmare for them, normally a taxi to the train station, then a train (very crowded) and often a bus after that, depending on where you work.

Housing is undergoing a bit of a slump, I get cold called most nights from real estate agents offering me apartments.

However most of my Chinese friends say prices have not come down that much. Everyone thinks that prices will continue to go up, as China's economy continues expanding.

Prices have gone up in Pudong around 6x or 7x in the last 12 years.
 
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