that's a good idea. buy a place and stay in it for a while.. and get the permits.. who knows for 3 townhouses of block of low rise 4-6 apartments. You could even sell it to a developer and get some agent to sell if off the plan so you could secure the profitis before the project even began. Best still.. get the agents with offices in china (some buy without even looking)
Property Development Full Time?
- Thread starter Truly Exotic
- Start date
that's a good idea. buy a place and stay in it for a while.. and get the permits.. who knows for 3 townhouses of block of low rise 4-6 apartments. You could even sell it to a developer and get some agent to sell if off the plan so you could secure the profitis before the project even began. Best still.. get the agents with offices in china (some buy without even looking)
Need PD Proj Mng experience urgently
I would like to get involved in PD Proj Mng for multiple dwellings.
a. How do I approach Property Developers for such a PM position (full time / part time/ contract) to learn and absorb?
b. Where do I find them?
c. What if I don't have Property experience (but read many books and attended many workshops - some even from spruikers) but do have extensive PM experience and was extensively involved in the Trades and Services Industry providing a software solution in Service Management.
d. How do I determine what is a fair rate?
Regards
I would like to get involved in PD Proj Mng for multiple dwellings.
a. How do I approach Property Developers for such a PM position (full time / part time/ contract) to learn and absorb?
b. Where do I find them?
c. What if I don't have Property experience (but read many books and attended many workshops - some even from spruikers) but do have extensive PM experience and was extensively involved in the Trades and Services Industry providing a software solution in Service Management.
d. How do I determine what is a fair rate?
Regards
Property Development learning and absorbing
Gerhardt,
You post some great questions about getting into Property Development & Project Management for multiple dwellings. Firstly its good that you are clear on the area of development that you wish to focus on i.e. “multiple dwellings”. Many people haven’t gained this clarity as yet. Having clarity of purpose is essential in all areas of life including property development.
There are a couple of parts to your question so I have broken it down as follows.
The key components that most professional real estate developers are looking for when they seek a development manager are 1) General knowledge, 2) specific knowledge, 3) specific experience & 4) interpersonal & communication skills.
1) General Knowledge – this is the project management component & other items that you may have learned about at schools, colleges, university etc. It is the short courses, certificates, diplomas, master’s courses that you’ve achieved. Australian Institute of Project Management www.aipm.com.au is excellent for this in relation to “project management”.
2) Specific knowledge – in your instance this specific knowledge relating to development of “multiple dwellings”. If you are looking at the “entire development” then this includes market analysis, site review, feasibility, finance, acquisition, planning & approval, construction & disposal or management of the finished asset. Understand that knowledge is not information. Specific knowledge is built from targeted reading, targeted research & targeted seminars. Ideally this is combined with appropriate on the job specific work experience.
3) Specific experience is about working in the industry on the right projects. Ideally you need to get down & dirty on site. You need to get in the engine room to see how it works, to understand the processes & what drives the development forward. Usually a combination of broad & targeted experience is optimal.
4) Interpersonal & communication skills – not only are they essential in standout development managers, they are essential in all other professional & management areas of real estate development. The ability to communicate & the ability to negotiate with others is so crucial because development involves many different people with different interests, roles & responsibilities. The group performance has a major impact on development performance.
OK there’s the mechanics. So if you are doing a multi dwelling site, who would you turn to for development assistance??? It’s the same if you need a brain operation; who would you turn to??? To ensure you have the best chances of success you would engage the best you could find & afford. PS what you can afford is often a mindset. I bet you could afford the best there is if you or your family needed a brain operation.
This is no different to what “multi dwelling” developers are looking for. And the best in the industry are masters at the 4 items above & in high demand. So now the question is how do I get a start???
Most developers are small to medium size. They run a lean ship with tight budgets. Rather that employing someone outstanding fulltime they often engage specialist consultants. If they do employ development staff usually they are looking for moderate to high experience in the 4 items above.
Major developers like Mirvac may take on juniors with specific backgrounds to assist with specific roles. Most of the time their preference will be to fill a very specific role with moderate to high experience in the 4 items above.
There are always way more candidates that want to work for developers “to learn and absorb” than there ever will be job opportunities.
So how do you get around this issue??? There are several ways to get in: By working in the development industry in one area, then doing a sideways or several sideways shifts into development. By getting a professional qualification in a development discipline & doing the same as above. By working with family or friends already in development. Or by doing your own developments (with or without partners) then surrounding yourself like the professionals developers do with an outstanding team of consultants from within the industry so you can learn on the job from the best; on your job.
As your goal is to be an expert in “multi dwelling” developments, regardless of whether you are starting in development or a veteran to get to the top & remain there you’ll need to continue to read every book & magazine you can get your hands on, go to as many property specific seminars & courses you can afford & follow property media in your area. This is lifelong learning & it’s essential.
A property mentor is also fantastic option. However, excellent development people with substantial real experience are few & far between. The outstanding people in the industry are often too busy or selective to mentor people that are not in their firm or business.
The bottom line is that developers are looking for specific skills that can help their business. What have you got that others haven’t? What can you do that others can’t? How can you be a specialist & what will your role be? The key here is to build your skills selectively. Focus on the 4 key areas. In addition to this, by doing your own developments, even renovations you are suddenly involved in the industry “learning and absorbing”, gaining experience that can be built on. You never know, if you do it well perhaps you can become the Mirvac of the future.
Philip
Gerhardt,
You post some great questions about getting into Property Development & Project Management for multiple dwellings. Firstly its good that you are clear on the area of development that you wish to focus on i.e. “multiple dwellings”. Many people haven’t gained this clarity as yet. Having clarity of purpose is essential in all areas of life including property development.
There are a couple of parts to your question so I have broken it down as follows.
The key components that most professional real estate developers are looking for when they seek a development manager are 1) General knowledge, 2) specific knowledge, 3) specific experience & 4) interpersonal & communication skills.
1) General Knowledge – this is the project management component & other items that you may have learned about at schools, colleges, university etc. It is the short courses, certificates, diplomas, master’s courses that you’ve achieved. Australian Institute of Project Management www.aipm.com.au is excellent for this in relation to “project management”.
2) Specific knowledge – in your instance this specific knowledge relating to development of “multiple dwellings”. If you are looking at the “entire development” then this includes market analysis, site review, feasibility, finance, acquisition, planning & approval, construction & disposal or management of the finished asset. Understand that knowledge is not information. Specific knowledge is built from targeted reading, targeted research & targeted seminars. Ideally this is combined with appropriate on the job specific work experience.
3) Specific experience is about working in the industry on the right projects. Ideally you need to get down & dirty on site. You need to get in the engine room to see how it works, to understand the processes & what drives the development forward. Usually a combination of broad & targeted experience is optimal.
4) Interpersonal & communication skills – not only are they essential in standout development managers, they are essential in all other professional & management areas of real estate development. The ability to communicate & the ability to negotiate with others is so crucial because development involves many different people with different interests, roles & responsibilities. The group performance has a major impact on development performance.
OK there’s the mechanics. So if you are doing a multi dwelling site, who would you turn to for development assistance??? It’s the same if you need a brain operation; who would you turn to??? To ensure you have the best chances of success you would engage the best you could find & afford. PS what you can afford is often a mindset. I bet you could afford the best there is if you or your family needed a brain operation.
This is no different to what “multi dwelling” developers are looking for. And the best in the industry are masters at the 4 items above & in high demand. So now the question is how do I get a start???
Most developers are small to medium size. They run a lean ship with tight budgets. Rather that employing someone outstanding fulltime they often engage specialist consultants. If they do employ development staff usually they are looking for moderate to high experience in the 4 items above.
Major developers like Mirvac may take on juniors with specific backgrounds to assist with specific roles. Most of the time their preference will be to fill a very specific role with moderate to high experience in the 4 items above.
There are always way more candidates that want to work for developers “to learn and absorb” than there ever will be job opportunities.
So how do you get around this issue??? There are several ways to get in: By working in the development industry in one area, then doing a sideways or several sideways shifts into development. By getting a professional qualification in a development discipline & doing the same as above. By working with family or friends already in development. Or by doing your own developments (with or without partners) then surrounding yourself like the professionals developers do with an outstanding team of consultants from within the industry so you can learn on the job from the best; on your job.
As your goal is to be an expert in “multi dwelling” developments, regardless of whether you are starting in development or a veteran to get to the top & remain there you’ll need to continue to read every book & magazine you can get your hands on, go to as many property specific seminars & courses you can afford & follow property media in your area. This is lifelong learning & it’s essential.
A property mentor is also fantastic option. However, excellent development people with substantial real experience are few & far between. The outstanding people in the industry are often too busy or selective to mentor people that are not in their firm or business.
The bottom line is that developers are looking for specific skills that can help their business. What have you got that others haven’t? What can you do that others can’t? How can you be a specialist & what will your role be? The key here is to build your skills selectively. Focus on the 4 key areas. In addition to this, by doing your own developments, even renovations you are suddenly involved in the industry “learning and absorbing”, gaining experience that can be built on. You never know, if you do it well perhaps you can become the Mirvac of the future.
Philip
Great thread on property development with some excellent responses. Anyone looking to start off in the field will have to be committed as the hardest part is finding a viable site. And once you have found something you need to move swiftly as such sites do not last long.
As we all know that your profit is made at the buying stage however, to determine this a proper feasibility study report showing detailed development and holding costs should be carried out. Your initial report can be based on estimates however, these figures will need to be firmed up in the due diligence stage of the contract.
On larger projects you will also have to engage multiple consultants to help you determine your costs. You may end up spending some money on getting advise however, the money spent here will pale in comparison to the money you may need to spend on unknown pitfalls.
As we all know that your profit is made at the buying stage however, to determine this a proper feasibility study report showing detailed development and holding costs should be carried out. Your initial report can be based on estimates however, these figures will need to be firmed up in the due diligence stage of the contract.
On larger projects you will also have to engage multiple consultants to help you determine your costs. You may end up spending some money on getting advise however, the money spent here will pale in comparison to the money you may need to spend on unknown pitfalls.
Some great points made in this post and i have to agree, $200-$300K in cash may seem like a lot of money (well it is actually) but not so in the property development game depending on how much you spend buying the initial site.
Being in the development game full time ourselves i can vouch its a killer cash-flow wise
. Basically we get paid every 18mths so can be hard.
We've been doing it full time for a few years now and i can tell you now that even with our last batch of projects, we were still being surprised with unexpected costs which can really affect your bottom profit margin.
Was speaking to some agent friends today and they were telling us they have been approached by so many Developers recently who are just desperate to sell their homes....at top dollar (more than what its worth) because they only realised towards the end of the development that they've now got a GST bill. GST bills can run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars depending on the size of the development.
My suggestion is to get in and try one...buy a small one (around $200K-$300K if possible)...just a site for 2 and i can gaurantee you'll learn heaps from that small one alone. Then venture into more after that. Don't dive in too heavily initially beacuse you will run into that good ol' cashflow problem....Good luck!
Being in the development game full time ourselves i can vouch its a killer cash-flow wise
. Basically we get paid every 18mths so can be hard. We've been doing it full time for a few years now and i can tell you now that even with our last batch of projects, we were still being surprised with unexpected costs which can really affect your bottom profit margin.
Was speaking to some agent friends today and they were telling us they have been approached by so many Developers recently who are just desperate to sell their homes....at top dollar (more than what its worth) because they only realised towards the end of the development that they've now got a GST bill
. GST bills can run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars depending on the size of the development. My suggestion is to get in and try one...buy a small one (around $200K-$300K if possible)...just a site for 2 and i can gaurantee you'll learn heaps from that small one alone. Then venture into more after that. Don't dive in too heavily initially beacuse you will run into that good ol' cashflow problem....Good luck!
Great Post Kimanand. Kudos sent.
Cashflow is king.
I often wonder if some of these property "gurus" spruiking seminars of how easy it is have even built a shed for profit? I work in the industry and have seen even wise old souls get burned when deals go bad for no reason other than dumb bad luck.
Banks can change funding rules at their whim. You can have a builder go belly up overnight. Sales fall over in an arvo.
Yet they say make $$$$$$ and it is soooooo easy. Well if it is all $$$$$, why are they bothering to flog seminars??? one reason: seminars are cashflow.
Think about that. Start small and learn.
Peter
Cashflow is king.
I often wonder if some of these property "gurus" spruiking seminars of how easy it is have even built a shed for profit? I work in the industry and have seen even wise old souls get burned when deals go bad for no reason other than dumb bad luck.
Banks can change funding rules at their whim. You can have a builder go belly up overnight. Sales fall over in an arvo.
Yet they say make $$$$$$ and it is soooooo easy. Well if it is all $$$$$, why are they bothering to flog seminars??? one reason: seminars are cashflow.
Think about that. Start small and learn.
Peter
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Some great points made in this post and i have to agree, $200-$300K in cash may seem like a lot of money (well it is actually) but not so in the property development game depending on how much you spend buying the initial site.
Being in the development game full time ourselves i can vouch its a killer cash-flow wise
We've been doing it full time for a few years now and i can tell you now that even with our last batch of projects, we were still being surprised with unexpected costs which can really affect your bottom profit margin.
Was speaking to some agent friends today and they were telling us they have been approached by so many Developers recently who are just desperate to sell their homes....at top dollar (more than what its worth) because they only realised towards the end of the development that they've now got a GST bill
My suggestion is to get in and try one...buy a small one (around $200K-$300K if possible)...just a site for 2 and i can gaurantee you'll learn heaps from that small one alone. Then venture into more after that. Don't dive in too heavily initially beacuse you will run into that good ol' cashflow problem....Good luck!
That's good advice and great posts from many others.
I am an investor and do the odd development.
One suggestion I would like to make is to start with a small project, ie building at the rear of a house at least you get your toes wet with less risk, also a good way of building skills and to actually work out if it is for you.
Cheers, MTR
