Reply: 4.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1
From: Gail H
Hi everyone,
Libel is a very specialist area of law and its not my area, so I can only make general comments.
Re damages, I believe the only damages that can be claimed are damages flowing from the original publication (and not from the publicity of bringing the action). Damages are notoriously hard to predict or quantify in this area.
Of course you can't serve papers by email - it is not valid service under the supreme court rules (and the papers are not served by the sheriff!). I am assuming that they have found out who Property Investigator is as he knows he is being sued. This suggests that he has been served in the appropriate manner. If not, then it might just be that the company has issued threats and it won't come to anything.
In my experience, companies don't just back down after issuing proceedings. They will be confident of winning and getting their costs paid. They won't care about either the time or the expense. Things only usually settle when someone offers something (eg. printed retraction) which is acceptable to the other side.
G
From: Gail H
Hi everyone,
Libel is a very specialist area of law and its not my area, so I can only make general comments.
Re damages, I believe the only damages that can be claimed are damages flowing from the original publication (and not from the publicity of bringing the action). Damages are notoriously hard to predict or quantify in this area.
Of course you can't serve papers by email - it is not valid service under the supreme court rules (and the papers are not served by the sheriff!). I am assuming that they have found out who Property Investigator is as he knows he is being sued. This suggests that he has been served in the appropriate manner. If not, then it might just be that the company has issued threats and it won't come to anything.
In my experience, companies don't just back down after issuing proceedings. They will be confident of winning and getting their costs paid. They won't care about either the time or the expense. Things only usually settle when someone offers something (eg. printed retraction) which is acceptable to the other side.
G
Last edited by a moderator:
W
WebBoard
Guest
Reply: 4.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1
From: Property Investigator
I must say I am overwhelmed by the support shown by you all. Thank you very, very much. Love the idea of the fighting fund, but hopefully we wont need it and nothing will come from this.
If I was Harvard Securities, I would be very worried now. I believe the damage done to them by all these postings is far, far worse than anything I may have said in my report.
I am now even more determined than ever to continue doing what I have been. I am writing this now from an Internet Cafe, so it would make it somewhat harder to track me down. I am going to close down my current email address, and create a new one from an internet cafe. I will be advising all the people on my email list my new email address.
I would also like to thank the person from Harvard Securities who is obviously on my mailing list. You have done a wonderful job in promoting the good name of your company, so well done you. You achieved far more than I or anyone else could of. Congratulations - I'm sure you're employer is very proud of you! If you are the boss of Harvard, you should have thought all this through a bit more before you did what you did.
It will be interesting to see if we can get the media involved. It would make for an interesting story having an interview by email!
Thanks again for all your support, and I will keep you all informed of events as they unfold.
Property (In Hiding) Investigator
From: Property Investigator
I must say I am overwhelmed by the support shown by you all. Thank you very, very much. Love the idea of the fighting fund, but hopefully we wont need it and nothing will come from this.
If I was Harvard Securities, I would be very worried now. I believe the damage done to them by all these postings is far, far worse than anything I may have said in my report.
I am now even more determined than ever to continue doing what I have been. I am writing this now from an Internet Cafe, so it would make it somewhat harder to track me down. I am going to close down my current email address, and create a new one from an internet cafe. I will be advising all the people on my email list my new email address.
I would also like to thank the person from Harvard Securities who is obviously on my mailing list. You have done a wonderful job in promoting the good name of your company, so well done you. You achieved far more than I or anyone else could of. Congratulations - I'm sure you're employer is very proud of you! If you are the boss of Harvard, you should have thought all this through a bit more before you did what you did.
It will be interesting to see if we can get the media involved. It would make for an interesting story having an interview by email!
Thanks again for all your support, and I will keep you all informed of events as they unfold.
Property (In Hiding) Investigator
Last edited by a moderator:
Reply: 4.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.2
From: Geoff Whitfield
Gail,
I really don't know anything much about law.
But, out of interest, how much could be proved in damages from a private email sent to a handful of people- even assuming what was said was malicious or untrue? (having nor seen the email myself, I really don't know what was said anyway).
The damages in a newspaper, read by hundreds of thousands, might be in the millions. But, pro rata, how much could be liable against a private email? If any damage was due, does that impact against, not only forums like this, but against email per se?
From: Geoff Whitfield
Gail,
I really don't know anything much about law.
But, out of interest, how much could be proved in damages from a private email sent to a handful of people- even assuming what was said was malicious or untrue? (having nor seen the email myself, I really don't know what was said anyway).
The damages in a newspaper, read by hundreds of thousands, might be in the millions. But, pro rata, how much could be liable against a private email? If any damage was due, does that impact against, not only forums like this, but against email per se?
Last edited by a moderator:
Reply: 4.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1.1
From: Robert Forward
Hi PI
Why do an interview via email....
We have a chatroom in here that can be used. And the rest of us can sit on the sidelines and read what is happening live on air.
hehehe.
Cheers,
Robert
Get your Property Inspection Reports @
http://www.CreativeFinance.com.au
From: Robert Forward
Hi PI
Why do an interview via email....
We have a chatroom in here that can be used. And the rest of us can sit on the sidelines and read what is happening live on air.
hehehe.
Cheers,
Robert
Get your Property Inspection Reports @
http://www.CreativeFinance.com.au
Last edited by a moderator:
Another 'Blinding Flash of the Obvious' ......
Reply: 4.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.2.1
From: Les .
G'day all,
Thank heaven I get to re-read things (and re-think things) now and then....
When Property Investigator first mentioned this bit, the import hadn't hit home to me - in case others are a bit slow too, let's read it again.
PI >> Prior to my last report, I was threatened with legal action BEFORE publishing the report about the particular company.
And, yes, PI had highlighted the word BEFORE - and it still didn't hit me ...
Well, der !!!!
But the BFO has finally hit .... Why would ANY company threaten legal action BEFORE a report is produced ???
Now that really does raise the eyebrows, doesn't it?
I include the above as a Public Service for others who might have read the words, but not read the MEANING of the words - like me ;^)
And PI, wherever you are, good luck to you - and thank you
Regards,
Les
- "Eschew Obfuscation" - ;^)
Reply: 4.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.2.1
From: Les .
G'day all,
Thank heaven I get to re-read things (and re-think things) now and then....
When Property Investigator first mentioned this bit, the import hadn't hit home to me - in case others are a bit slow too, let's read it again.
PI >> Prior to my last report, I was threatened with legal action BEFORE publishing the report about the particular company.
And, yes, PI had highlighted the word BEFORE - and it still didn't hit me ...
Well, der !!!!
But the BFO has finally hit .... Why would ANY company threaten legal action BEFORE a report is produced ???
Now that really does raise the eyebrows, doesn't it?
I include the above as a Public Service for others who might have read the words, but not read the MEANING of the words - like me ;^)
And PI, wherever you are, good luck to you - and thank you
Regards,
Les
- "Eschew Obfuscation" - ;^)
Last edited by a moderator:
Another 'Blinding Flash of the Obvious' ......
Reply: 4.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.2.1.1
From: Geoff Whitfield
The threat was before- but does that mean that PI mentioned the company name before publishing?
The suing was after the report was published.
Isn't this all like a "Choice" magazine? It's just people investigating how user-friendly a product is.
Does that mean that Choice can be sued by the manufacturers of the product which came second?
This is something really outrageous. Already, Australia is the most litigious society on earth (so I'm told- I don't know for sure)- if we keep going this way, we are going to end up worse than Stalinist Russia- not even being able to express an opinion.
Geoff
Reply: 4.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.2.1.1
From: Geoff Whitfield
The threat was before- but does that mean that PI mentioned the company name before publishing?
The suing was after the report was published.
Isn't this all like a "Choice" magazine? It's just people investigating how user-friendly a product is.
Does that mean that Choice can be sued by the manufacturers of the product which came second?
This is something really outrageous. Already, Australia is the most litigious society on earth (so I'm told- I don't know for sure)- if we keep going this way, we are going to end up worse than Stalinist Russia- not even being able to express an opinion.
Geoff
Last edited by a moderator:
Another 'Blinding Flash of the Obvious' ......
Reply: 4.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.2.1.1.1
From: Gail H
Hi
Re the issue of what sort of damages could be claimed by a company in this position - its very hard to say. I agree that you wouldn't think it was much. Although, because the email goes to potential property investors, the loss of even one potential client could be quantified at quite a high sum. Because damages are very speculative in this area, they are very hard to quantify. So, you can get a nasty shock when you get to court.
My main concern though would be the legal costs. If they find out who he is and sue him, even if they are successful to a very small degree, they can claim their costs off him.
But libel is a very specialist area. My comments are of a general nature only and should not be relied upon or acted upon in any way.
Good luck
Gail
Reply: 4.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.2.1.1.1
From: Gail H
Hi
Re the issue of what sort of damages could be claimed by a company in this position - its very hard to say. I agree that you wouldn't think it was much. Although, because the email goes to potential property investors, the loss of even one potential client could be quantified at quite a high sum. Because damages are very speculative in this area, they are very hard to quantify. So, you can get a nasty shock when you get to court.
My main concern though would be the legal costs. If they find out who he is and sue him, even if they are successful to a very small degree, they can claim their costs off him.
But libel is a very specialist area. My comments are of a general nature only and should not be relied upon or acted upon in any way.
Good luck
Gail
Last edited by a moderator:
Another 'Blinding Flash of the Obvious' ......
Reply: 4.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1
From: Splinter Wood
Hi PI and others,
This situation has been passed on to some high Profile News Journalists. I gather they are watching to see how this all unfolds and if this escalates, and then most probably - they will jump on board do some fairly solid coverage (Pictures of a burning house sells more papers than one of lighter fluid and a box of matches).
In my view, the company in question will suffer permanent and substantial losses if they wish to proceed. The amount of bad press they will most certainly receive will keep their foyers empty for a long time. What would normally happen, is they would change their name and set up all over again doing the same business (Some further costs to consider)
The report by PI was circulated to those requesting such information which was shared by PI as his opinion and experience.
On seeking legal advice - obviously the Plaintiff (The co. who were the subject of the PI report) have been given indication that there is a strong possibility they could win such a case.
The Defendant also has good grounds to believe he/ she would come out unscathed by the law & on consulting a solicitor, will most probably get advice that chances of winning are very good.
As stated in this thread, the winner will be the Lawyers.
This would equate to what is commonly referred to in a school yard competition as : whom of the two parties can urinate the furthest.
As for the Intended plaintiffs, they are obviously excited about the possibilities of winning such a case but this is very much a case of possibly (& I say that reservedly) winning the battle. They will however, almost without doubt, lose the war.
This subject goes far beyond the pages of this forum, and the level of support for those wishing to exercise their right to free speech is more than substantial.
On the other hand, the forces of those who jeopardize that right through heavy handed tactics and questionable legal action, is mounting to a level of effectiveness not to be underestimated.
REgds
SW
Reply: 4.1.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.2.1.1.1.1
From: Splinter Wood
Hi PI and others,
This situation has been passed on to some high Profile News Journalists. I gather they are watching to see how this all unfolds and if this escalates, and then most probably - they will jump on board do some fairly solid coverage (Pictures of a burning house sells more papers than one of lighter fluid and a box of matches).
In my view, the company in question will suffer permanent and substantial losses if they wish to proceed. The amount of bad press they will most certainly receive will keep their foyers empty for a long time. What would normally happen, is they would change their name and set up all over again doing the same business (Some further costs to consider)
The report by PI was circulated to those requesting such information which was shared by PI as his opinion and experience.
On seeking legal advice - obviously the Plaintiff (The co. who were the subject of the PI report) have been given indication that there is a strong possibility they could win such a case.
The Defendant also has good grounds to believe he/ she would come out unscathed by the law & on consulting a solicitor, will most probably get advice that chances of winning are very good.
As stated in this thread, the winner will be the Lawyers.
This would equate to what is commonly referred to in a school yard competition as : whom of the two parties can urinate the furthest.
As for the Intended plaintiffs, they are obviously excited about the possibilities of winning such a case but this is very much a case of possibly (& I say that reservedly) winning the battle. They will however, almost without doubt, lose the war.
This subject goes far beyond the pages of this forum, and the level of support for those wishing to exercise their right to free speech is more than substantial.
On the other hand, the forces of those who jeopardize that right through heavy handed tactics and questionable legal action, is mounting to a level of effectiveness not to be underestimated.
REgds
SW
Last edited by a moderator:
Reply: 5
From: Denise Macadam
Hi Investigator,
I to have not been a recipient of your report - but this thread has made for very interesting reading. One suggestion, Neil Jenman - love him or hate him! has a fighting fund for these type of scenarios I believe. If you have fact and proof on your side why not give him a whirl. Cant help but notice he doesn't mind the odd TV camera or two. Cant do any harm, and you may find yourself a cashed up supporter willing to jump on board and fight the cause with you!
Best of luck
Denise
From: Denise Macadam
Hi Investigator,
I to have not been a recipient of your report - but this thread has made for very interesting reading. One suggestion, Neil Jenman - love him or hate him! has a fighting fund for these type of scenarios I believe. If you have fact and proof on your side why not give him a whirl. Cant help but notice he doesn't mind the odd TV camera or two. Cant do any harm, and you may find yourself a cashed up supporter willing to jump on board and fight the cause with you!
Best of luck
Denise
Last edited by a moderator:
Reply: 5.1
From: Tibor Bode
PI,
I am also not a recipient of your email (but I am definitely interested to become one now
so please register me on it, thank you).
Geoff, I could not agree more with your comments. I have seen this kind of rubbish at work places (you are forced to attend some "cover our a... seminar then sign a paper so the company can not be sued, irrespective whether you agree or not what was said) where I have raised exactly the same concerns. Express freely a differing opinion is fine, and make a criticism of low or shonky services without the fear of being prosecuted is what western democracy over communist countries. Otherwise where it is going to end? What if you dare to any party in power just because you believe differently? As small thing are chipped away slowly democracy is eroded!
Just my 2c, and anyone is welcome to sue me for it.
Tibor
From: Tibor Bode
PI,
I am also not a recipient of your email (but I am definitely interested to become one now
so please register me on it, thank you).
Geoff, I could not agree more with your comments. I have seen this kind of rubbish at work places (you are forced to attend some "cover our a... seminar then sign a paper so the company can not be sued, irrespective whether you agree or not what was said) where I have raised exactly the same concerns. Express freely a differing opinion is fine, and make a criticism of low or shonky services without the fear of being prosecuted is what western democracy over communist countries. Otherwise where it is going to end? What if you dare to any party in power just because you believe differently? As small thing are chipped away slowly democracy is eroded!
Just my 2c, and anyone is welcome to sue me for it.
Tibor
Last edited by a moderator:
W
WebBoard
Guest
Reply: 5.1.1
From: Anonymous
Sorry to remain anon, count me in on the fighting fund, i will be glad to testify against them as a witness. Bring on the Journalists.
Harvard cheated me, I bought a property with them, they refered me to a mortgage broker, who charged me $2500 to arange finance, the loan they got for me included a $600 estabilsishmnet fee, (Obvously they did not go out of their way to negioate the best deal for me) And you can bet that they received a nice commission from the lender. as for the service is was bad, they told me that everything was in order and I would just be able to sit back and do nothing. Come 15 hours prior to settlement "Wheres the money?" I just made it wiht the local bank manager bending the rules to get the money.
Victims of Harvard unite!!!
Give your support to PI.
How about an answer from you Harvard?
From: Anonymous
Sorry to remain anon, count me in on the fighting fund, i will be glad to testify against them as a witness. Bring on the Journalists.
Harvard cheated me, I bought a property with them, they refered me to a mortgage broker, who charged me $2500 to arange finance, the loan they got for me included a $600 estabilsishmnet fee, (Obvously they did not go out of their way to negioate the best deal for me) And you can bet that they received a nice commission from the lender. as for the service is was bad, they told me that everything was in order and I would just be able to sit back and do nothing. Come 15 hours prior to settlement "Wheres the money?" I just made it wiht the local bank manager bending the rules to get the money.
Victims of Harvard unite!!!
Give your support to PI.
How about an answer from you Harvard?
Last edited by a moderator:
A
Anonymous
Guest
Reply: 5.1.1.1
From: Anonymous
Perhaps the company has decided that it can make more money suing forum members than by selling overpriced properties and services!
Anon
From: Anonymous
Perhaps the company has decided that it can make more money suing forum members than by selling overpriced properties and services!
Anon
Last edited by a moderator:
W
WebBoard
Guest
Reply: 6
From: Brett Burt
Dear Property Investigator,
I would be happy to talk to
you about this legal action and maybe assist with financial assistance.
These people threatening legal action. Are they prepared to risk adverse
publicity, the cost of litigation, the posting of a bond to meet your costs
should they lose, further investigation by ASIC, ACCC, Fair Trading
Departments, naming in parliament etc etc Talk is cheap ! People often
threaten to sue but often are all bluff especially if there is something in
what you reported that may mean they would come to court (equity) with dirty
hands ? And even before they do there are alternative dispute resolution
mechanisms in place which the respective Supreme Courts in various
jurisdictions will insist upon before litigation can proceed. Don't be
cowered intrepid Property Investigator !
What about the rest of the forum members ? Why don't we help this person
even if just by writing to the people threatening litigation. I am prepared
to put my hard earned where my mouth is and support the Investigator. Any
suggestions guys ?
Email me direct if you wish to meet.
Regards
Brett.
----- Original Message -----
From: "propertyforum Listmanager" <[email protected]>
To: <Recipients of 'propertyforum' suppressed>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 3:16 PM
Subject: Property Investigator In Court?
> From: "Property Investigator" <[email protected]>
>
> As most of you know, I have been issuing to those interested, reports
about marketers, seminar givers, trainers etc.
>
> There are lot's of you who believe they have a right to know about how
these people perform, whether they are scammers or rip-off merchants or
actually provide great service. This was the purpose of the reports.
>
> Prior to my last report, I was threatened with legal action BEFORE
publishing the report about the particular company. Since publishing the
report, I am now being sued!!
>
> It's an absolute disgrace that I can't share my experiences in a private
report to people who have asked to see it without being sued.
>
> My reports will continue, but maybe the next couple will have to be
nothing but good ones! As it turns out, I have been investigating buyers
agents and their like recently, and the next report promises to be rather
positive anyway.
>
> So, by telling it how it is, speaking the facts, sharing personal
experiences, you can end up in court. Great legal system isn't it.
>
> My advice to all of you is not to publish anything of a negative nature
about anyone in any form of public forum.
>
> Maybe you all better watch the courts and if you see someone in a
trenchcoat, dark glasses, false beard and a hat, it's probably me.
>
> Property Investigator
>
>
>
> To reply: mailto
[email protected]
> To start a new topic: mailto[email protected]
> To login: http://bne003w.webcentral.com.au:80/~wb013
>
From: Brett Burt
Dear Property Investigator,
I would be happy to talk to
you about this legal action and maybe assist with financial assistance.
These people threatening legal action. Are they prepared to risk adverse
publicity, the cost of litigation, the posting of a bond to meet your costs
should they lose, further investigation by ASIC, ACCC, Fair Trading
Departments, naming in parliament etc etc Talk is cheap ! People often
threaten to sue but often are all bluff especially if there is something in
what you reported that may mean they would come to court (equity) with dirty
hands ? And even before they do there are alternative dispute resolution
mechanisms in place which the respective Supreme Courts in various
jurisdictions will insist upon before litigation can proceed. Don't be
cowered intrepid Property Investigator !
What about the rest of the forum members ? Why don't we help this person
even if just by writing to the people threatening litigation. I am prepared
to put my hard earned where my mouth is and support the Investigator. Any
suggestions guys ?
Email me direct if you wish to meet.
Regards
Brett.
----- Original Message -----
From: "propertyforum Listmanager" <[email protected]>
To: <Recipients of 'propertyforum' suppressed>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 3:16 PM
Subject: Property Investigator In Court?
> From: "Property Investigator" <[email protected]>
>
> As most of you know, I have been issuing to those interested, reports
about marketers, seminar givers, trainers etc.
>
> There are lot's of you who believe they have a right to know about how
these people perform, whether they are scammers or rip-off merchants or
actually provide great service. This was the purpose of the reports.
>
> Prior to my last report, I was threatened with legal action BEFORE
publishing the report about the particular company. Since publishing the
report, I am now being sued!!
>
> It's an absolute disgrace that I can't share my experiences in a private
report to people who have asked to see it without being sued.
>
> My reports will continue, but maybe the next couple will have to be
nothing but good ones! As it turns out, I have been investigating buyers
agents and their like recently, and the next report promises to be rather
positive anyway.
>
> So, by telling it how it is, speaking the facts, sharing personal
experiences, you can end up in court. Great legal system isn't it.
>
> My advice to all of you is not to publish anything of a negative nature
about anyone in any form of public forum.
>
> Maybe you all better watch the courts and if you see someone in a
trenchcoat, dark glasses, false beard and a hat, it's probably me.
>
> Property Investigator
>
>
>
> To reply: mailto
[email protected]> To start a new topic: mailto
[email protected]> To login: http://bne003w.webcentral.com.au:80/~wb013
>
Last edited by a moderator:
W
WebBoard
Guest
Reply: 3.2
From: Brett Burt
Re: 'if you tell the truth you cannot lose'....actually you can ! The court
can find you told the truth but it is the context, the intent of the
statements that matters as well....they are true statements but did you set
out to 'destroy' someone by the statements for example. But this area of
law is also one of the few that still has a civil jury so the decision is
often based no so much on law but on facts and common sense which can work
for you or a'gin you.
----- Original Message -----
From: "propertyforum Listmanager" <[email protected]>
To: <Recipients of 'propertyforum' suppressed>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:57 PM
Subject: Property Investigator In Court?
> From: "Dale Gatherum-Goss" <[email protected]>
>
> Hi!
>
> I just posted elsewhere on a similar topic. If you tell the truth and can
prove it, then, you cannot lose the case - however, you still have the
stress and the costs involved in fighting the case.
>
> I'm willing to put some dollars in a pot towards a fighting fund if others
on this forum will as well.
>
> If we unite, then, we will win and hopefully show the company in question,
to be what you have exposed.
>
> Keep up the good work and don't be bullied by this bullshit!
>
> Dale
>
>
>
> To reply: mailto[email protected]
> To start a new topic: mailto[email protected]
> To login: http://bne003w.webcentral.com.au:80/~wb013
>
From: Brett Burt
Re: 'if you tell the truth you cannot lose'....actually you can ! The court
can find you told the truth but it is the context, the intent of the
statements that matters as well....they are true statements but did you set
out to 'destroy' someone by the statements for example. But this area of
law is also one of the few that still has a civil jury so the decision is
often based no so much on law but on facts and common sense which can work
for you or a'gin you.
----- Original Message -----
From: "propertyforum Listmanager" <[email protected]>
To: <Recipients of 'propertyforum' suppressed>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 7:57 PM
Subject: Property Investigator In Court?
> From: "Dale Gatherum-Goss" <[email protected]>
>
> Hi!
>
> I just posted elsewhere on a similar topic. If you tell the truth and can
prove it, then, you cannot lose the case - however, you still have the
stress and the costs involved in fighting the case.
>
> I'm willing to put some dollars in a pot towards a fighting fund if others
on this forum will as well.
>
> If we unite, then, we will win and hopefully show the company in question,
to be what you have exposed.
>
> Keep up the good work and don't be bullied by this bullshit!
>
> Dale
>
>
>
> To reply: mailto
[email protected]> To start a new topic: mailto
[email protected]> To login: http://bne003w.webcentral.com.au:80/~wb013
>
Last edited by a moderator:
W
WebBoard
Guest
Reply: 4.1.1.1.1.3
From: Brett Burt
Gail, you are a chicken, but probably a sensible chicken ! MY VIEW IS UNITED
WE STAND AND DIVIDED WE FALL ! If someone has got the balls to tell the
truth, and the truth wasn't that ugly anyway (which makes me think these
guys are all talk) then honest people should back him/her up! In my view it
is not free speech that is involved, but someone exposing another party who
are perhaps not doing the right thing ! If good men stand by and let bad
things happen they are just as guilty as the perpertrators. I had 19 years
in the police force and saw this daily on the streets and that is why the
world is so @#$%ed.
Is the truth worth losing everything over ? Yes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "propertyforum Listmanager" <[email protected]>
To: <Recipients of 'propertyforum' suppressed>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: Property Investigator In Court?
> From: "Gail H" <[email protected]>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> As a barrister who sees people bankrupted by the court system every day, I
have to say, please be careful everyone. Yes, truth is a defence to libel
(and there are several others), but the challenge of "proving" an allegation
is true to the satisfaction of a court is another question altogether. And
then if you win, they can appeal it. Two years later, you are still paying
out. If you ultimately lose, you will then have to pay the other side's
costs. Hello bankruptcy court.
>
> The system is a costly nightmare.I understand that the right to free
speech is critical, but is it worth losing everything over? And I mean
everything.
>
> Property investigator - please consider settling in some way if you really
think this crowd is serious. Don't think I'm a chicken everyone. I spend
every day of my life in those trenches and I'm telling you....don't go
there.
>
> Good luck
>
> Gail
>
>
>
> To reply: mailto[email protected]
> To start a new topic: mailto[email protected]
> To login: http://bne003w.webcentral.com.au:80/~wb013
>
From: Brett Burt
Gail, you are a chicken, but probably a sensible chicken ! MY VIEW IS UNITED
WE STAND AND DIVIDED WE FALL ! If someone has got the balls to tell the
truth, and the truth wasn't that ugly anyway (which makes me think these
guys are all talk) then honest people should back him/her up! In my view it
is not free speech that is involved, but someone exposing another party who
are perhaps not doing the right thing ! If good men stand by and let bad
things happen they are just as guilty as the perpertrators. I had 19 years
in the police force and saw this daily on the streets and that is why the
world is so @#$%ed.
Is the truth worth losing everything over ? Yes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "propertyforum Listmanager" <[email protected]>
To: <Recipients of 'propertyforum' suppressed>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: Property Investigator In Court?
> From: "Gail H" <[email protected]>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> As a barrister who sees people bankrupted by the court system every day, I
have to say, please be careful everyone. Yes, truth is a defence to libel
(and there are several others), but the challenge of "proving" an allegation
is true to the satisfaction of a court is another question altogether. And
then if you win, they can appeal it. Two years later, you are still paying
out. If you ultimately lose, you will then have to pay the other side's
costs. Hello bankruptcy court.
>
> The system is a costly nightmare.I understand that the right to free
speech is critical, but is it worth losing everything over? And I mean
everything.
>
> Property investigator - please consider settling in some way if you really
think this crowd is serious. Don't think I'm a chicken everyone. I spend
every day of my life in those trenches and I'm telling you....don't go
there.
>
> Good luck
>
> Gail
>
>
>
> To reply: mailto
[email protected]> To start a new topic: mailto
[email protected]> To login: http://bne003w.webcentral.com.au:80/~wb013
>
Last edited by a moderator:
W
WebBoard
Guest
Reply: 6.1.1
From: Jingle Bells
what ever happened to due dilligance and buyer beware???
all i can say PI is you should have been more careful before you got involved in the company that "ripped you off".
From: Jingle Bells
what ever happened to due dilligance and buyer beware???
all i can say PI is you should have been more careful before you got involved in the company that "ripped you off".
Last edited by a moderator:
Reply: 6.1.1.1
From: Splinter Wood
Dear Joking Bells,
Suggest that you go back and read the thread properly. PI is writing valid reports on various Seminar,Training and Property Investment companies.
Some people like PI are trying to help others less fortunate - and more vulnerable to scammers and rip off merchants currently and constantly in the market place. He is also providing news of bonafide organizations. Bit like a private 'Choice' report - valid and valuable.
Get the message ?
SW
From: Splinter Wood
Dear Joking Bells,
Suggest that you go back and read the thread properly. PI is writing valid reports on various Seminar,Training and Property Investment companies.
Some people like PI are trying to help others less fortunate - and more vulnerable to scammers and rip off merchants currently and constantly in the market place. He is also providing news of bonafide organizations. Bit like a private 'Choice' report - valid and valuable.
Get the message ?
SW
Last edited by a moderator:
W
WebBoard
Guest
Reply: 6.1.1.1.1
From: The Wife
I don’t have a problem with property Investigator, and I have been where he is now, under scrutiny by companies, all because we want to help other people.
But, I do believe the reports he is writing up is HIS VIEW of the particular company in question, correct?
If not, I would like to know how he remains impartial.
When people are paid on commission, which I imagine most of the companies PI is checking out are, the price and service will vary wildly, now....I know this is the point of PI 'investigation' to stop the HIGHER priced stuff happening, but this again is a grey area, how much profit, is to much profit? Sure it’s not nice to rip people off, I don’t like it either, but I am pretty sure that some companies depend on the higher charged clients to cover costs for what they let go cheaper. Not nice is it, but that’s life, it happens to some degree in every business.
I have family who have had their life shattered by buying property from a seminar this way, I am not happy about it. But I tried and tried and tried, I spent three days showing them property I have and how I make money out of it, enough that I don’t have to work a job anymore, but no they said, what I do is to difficult, they like the fact that someone else will do all the work for them, they were tripping over themselves to buy, they were happy to take a loss.
There is always going to be those who want to be "saved" and those who don’t.
I don’t know what the answer is, It's swirled about in my head for a long time, I don’t believe a GT Reed style of email report (I am presuming, as I don’t receive the report) is 100% valuable, maybe 25% valuable, maybe that makes it valuable enough, who knows, I just have a "thing" with companies telling me what to buy, and people telling me which company is good enough to buy from. Maybe I am one of the lucky ones that can minimise my own mistakes and learn far more from them than anyone could ever tell me. Maybe I have it all wrong, not sure, someone clarify it for me.
I like people’s opinions and points of view, but I can work out if I don’t agree with you, newbie’s cannot, newbie’s will just take what you say as gospel, just like they would have if the companies got hold of them first. So the “view” had better not be coloured, it had better be totally impartial.
Cheers, TW
From: The Wife
I don’t have a problem with property Investigator, and I have been where he is now, under scrutiny by companies, all because we want to help other people.
But, I do believe the reports he is writing up is HIS VIEW of the particular company in question, correct?
If not, I would like to know how he remains impartial.
When people are paid on commission, which I imagine most of the companies PI is checking out are, the price and service will vary wildly, now....I know this is the point of PI 'investigation' to stop the HIGHER priced stuff happening, but this again is a grey area, how much profit, is to much profit? Sure it’s not nice to rip people off, I don’t like it either, but I am pretty sure that some companies depend on the higher charged clients to cover costs for what they let go cheaper. Not nice is it, but that’s life, it happens to some degree in every business.
I have family who have had their life shattered by buying property from a seminar this way, I am not happy about it. But I tried and tried and tried, I spent three days showing them property I have and how I make money out of it, enough that I don’t have to work a job anymore, but no they said, what I do is to difficult, they like the fact that someone else will do all the work for them, they were tripping over themselves to buy, they were happy to take a loss.
There is always going to be those who want to be "saved" and those who don’t.
I don’t know what the answer is, It's swirled about in my head for a long time, I don’t believe a GT Reed style of email report (I am presuming, as I don’t receive the report) is 100% valuable, maybe 25% valuable, maybe that makes it valuable enough, who knows, I just have a "thing" with companies telling me what to buy, and people telling me which company is good enough to buy from. Maybe I am one of the lucky ones that can minimise my own mistakes and learn far more from them than anyone could ever tell me. Maybe I have it all wrong, not sure, someone clarify it for me.
I like people’s opinions and points of view, but I can work out if I don’t agree with you, newbie’s cannot, newbie’s will just take what you say as gospel, just like they would have if the companies got hold of them first. So the “view” had better not be coloured, it had better be totally impartial.
Cheers, TW
Last edited by a moderator:
