Property manager making late payments and incurring fines

Hi all

Upon reviewing annual rental statements for the last financial year, I learnt that our PM made a number of strata payments post the due date for one of our IPs - despite this having been communicated that strata levies fines for these.

These late payments were made by our PM, who has now left for maternity leave, and the new PM told us outright that there wasn't much she could do and we can start making 'payments' ourselves. We were really annoyed as it is the PM's responsibility to manage the cash flow and make payments in a timely manner; and the new PM didn't seem to care about the number of IPs we have tenanted through them. Spoke to the Principal of the agency, who we know well, and given the number of our properties he told us he will reimburse us for the fines, as well as change the payments to once a month (previously twice a month) to provide them with the cash for these expenses as they arise.

Now, I have noticed the same issue for another IP - but apparently the strata payment was made in October 2013, and the strata company received it in December 2013 - HOW does this work? In this day and age, when internet banking is so quick - how can a payment lag by two months? The PM emailed advising the Principal will refund this ONE payment ie implying that we have to pay for any future delays. She also told us that we can start making strata payments ourselves for this property as well!

Given the number of properties, late payments add up, and making payments ourselves one at a time defeats the purpose of having the PM there - if we have to keep track of what is due when...so please don't say this is a cost of doing business.

We want to talk to the Principal now - to possibly change the PM, as I am sick of her delegating stuff to us; poor and slow communication and just doesn't seem to give a 'crap' re late payments - lack of commerciality. Secondly want to come to an agreement re approach to fines going forward.

Have you had similar issues? If so, do you just pay these fines?

Monalisa
 
There is no excuse for the PM not to pay any outgoing on time. If they are worth a pinch of what comes out the back of a dog, they plan for these things.

When it comes to the properties I manage, I will tell the owner that I am withholding a payment to cover the rates/water/levies/insurance which is expected to arrive in the next month. If these charges haven't been anticipated, then I request the owner to forward sufficient funds for payment of the account so it will be paid within the required time.

Payment by EFT are usually available within a few days at the most not months - I would be following up the agent as they have probably missed a payment completely and you will be hit for the next quarter as late as well.
 
Why not ppay yourself and get the FF points? you can also borrow to pay expenses and divert funds to pay off the PPOR loan sooner. Also you can pay at the last minute to save even more interest.
 
Sounds to me like it's time to change your PM. I'd give them one chance to fix any issues you might have (and you have already done that).

Now, I have noticed the same issue for another IP - but apparently the strata payment was made in October 2013, and the strata company received it in December 2013 - HOW does this work?

Ask for a transaction history from both parties. Sounds a bit weird to me for a payment to take 2 months. 3 days tops if it was sent on a Friday. It should have been received by Tuesday.



Cheers

Andrew
 
There is no excuse for the PM not to pay any outgoing on time. If they are worth a pinch of what comes out the back of a dog, they plan for these things.

When it comes to the properties I manage, I will tell the owner that I am withholding a payment to cover the rates/water/levies/insurance which is expected to arrive in the next month. If these charges haven't been anticipated, then I request the owner to forward sufficient funds for payment of the account so it will be paid within the required time.

Payment by EFT are usually available within a few days at the most not months - I would be following up the agent as they have probably missed a payment completely and you will be hit for the next quarter as late as well.

Hi Scott
Thanks for your input. I agree - the PM needs to manage the cash flow and know well in advance.
Going to speak to the principal to get this sorted and will be clear that they need to manage this end to end, without us having to deal with small payments.

Why not ppay yourself and get the FF points? you can also borrow to pay expenses and divert funds to pay off the PPOR loan sooner. Also you can pay at the last minute to save even more interest.

We would rather spend our time on the 'value add' and look at how we can progress as investors.

Sounds to me like it's time to change your PM. I'd give them one chance to fix any issues you might have (and you have already done that).



Ask for a transaction history from both parties. Sounds a bit weird to me for a payment to take 2 months. 3 days tops if it was sent on a Friday. It should have been received by Tuesday.

Cheers

Andrew

The PM has sent the documentation - I am doubtful still of this - as most of the info on the documentation has been 'liquid papered' to hide other transactions. Will ask the method of payment as well.

I think on top of all these fines, its the PM's attitude that has really annoyed me.

Just spoke to the Principal, and changing the PM!
 
Have gone through a similar thing with a triplex of ours. Hours of explanations, two different managers and I finally came to the conclusion that it was the agency and moved on.

Start interviewing other agencies, get a few references and move on.
 
Totally frustrating - good thing they are refunding you the costs. I have PM's but I pay all my bills and get the FF, i set up as many as possible with direct debit. Run a business so there are a ton of bills each month. I hate to say it but unfortunately no one cares about your money quite as much as you do.
Cheers, nat
 
I only have one prop where I don't pay outgoings and I receive the rental income monthly. All the other props are paid on cc and I get ff Points and the money is taken from the relevant prop offset to pay. Still easily managing cash flows.. Mona it truly does not take much time a couple of clicks to pay several, and you love travel, so the bonus is the free miles!

I like fortnightly payments as I can see where the rent is paid up to and monitor the agent.
 
Thanks all.

We feel too busy - may be need to manage time better; but generally long hours with work, and weekend work.

But makes me wonder - is the agent really only for collecting rent? I don't think it would be worthwhile for them collecting rent, and reducing their commission; and us managing the expenses.

Another thing is I like it all on the annual rental statement; it may become even more time consuming getting organised at tax time.

Would like to spend whatever (little) time we have on growing the portfolio, and finding ways to increase cash flow.

Something for me to think about.
 
The only thing I have PM's pay is water usage (and in NSW water rates as well as they cant be split). Everything else I pay myself, for the reasons that 1) I can collect cc points, and 2) I am in control of payment dates
 
Payments..

When you have decided 'enough' contact NSW Fair Trading and make a formal, written complaint.

Their paper work is time consuming, but if you do this, then there is a record that people can easily look up on the Licensing section of NSW Fair Trading.
When you are paying someone to pay your bills on time and you are copping it for their lackadaisical approach.. 'do it yourself'

Tell your out going agent what you are doing.

I hope this helps
 
Word of advice....accept no excuses.

If they don't meet expectations...fire them anc move to a new PM.

Have heard horror stories of people who found out that their agent had not collected rent for 3 months.

Hi all

Upon reviewing annual rental statements for the last financial year, I learnt that our PM made a number of strata payments post the due date for one of our IPs - despite this having been communicated that strata levies fines for these.

These late payments were made by our PM, who has now left for maternity leave, and the new PM told us outright that there wasn't much she could do and we can start making 'payments' ourselves. We were really annoyed as it is the PM's responsibility to manage the cash flow and make payments in a timely manner; and the new PM didn't seem to care about the number of IPs we have tenanted through them. Spoke to the Principal of the agency, who we know well, and given the number of our properties he told us he will reimburse us for the fines, as well as change the payments to once a month (previously twice a month) to provide them with the cash for these expenses as they arise.

Now, I have noticed the same issue for another IP - but apparently the strata payment was made in October 2013, and the strata company received it in December 2013 - HOW does this work? In this day and age, when internet banking is so quick - how can a payment lag by two months? The PM emailed advising the Principal will refund this ONE payment ie implying that we have to pay for any future delays. She also told us that we can start making strata payments ourselves for this property as well!

Given the number of properties, late payments add up, and making payments ourselves one at a time defeats the purpose of having the PM there - if we have to keep track of what is due when...so please don't say this is a cost of doing business.

We want to talk to the Principal now - to possibly change the PM, as I am sick of her delegating stuff to us; poor and slow communication and just doesn't seem to give a 'crap' re late payments - lack of commerciality. Secondly want to come to an agreement re approach to fines going forward.

Have you had similar issues? If so, do you just pay these fines?

Monalisa
 
Apart from some repairs, I've always paid all property bills myself, with direct debit if possible. More control and visibility that way.
 
About 10 years ago I suffered a default judgment due to unpaid council rates. The agent did not pay them, council sued me, I didn't realise, and council got a judgment against me. This stayed on my credit file for 5 years and had to be explained away each time I took a loan. There were also late fees, court fees and legal costs - which the agent reimbursed me for.

After that I pay all costs myself. It takes a few minutes to pay a bill, you get points, you can borrow for it which means you save compounding interest off your non deductible debt.

I can't understand why anyone wouldn't pay their own bills. I advise my clients this too.
 
About 10 years ago I suffered a default judgment due to unpaid council rates. The agent did not pay them, council sued me, I didn't realise, and council got a judgment against me. This stayed on my credit file for 5 years and had to be explained away each time I took a loan. There were also late fees, court fees and legal costs - which the agent reimbursed me for.

After that I pay all costs myself. It takes a few minutes to pay a bill, you get points, you can borrow for it which means you save compounding interest off your non deductible debt.

I can't understand why anyone wouldn't pay their own bills. I advise my clients this too.

I had a judgement for unpaid council rates too and had it removed in 6 weeks. Why did it take you 5 years?
 
I can't understand why anyone wouldn't pay their own bills. I advise my clients this too.[/QUOTE]

Totally Agree with Terry, pay your own bills, keep on top of everything to do with your IP'S and "Manage your Own Business".

If PM is paying bills for you, Do you really know where you are Financially ?

:)
 
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