Proportion of people who own multiple properties??

[Rixter]

Hello. Im wondering if anyone has or knows the figures to give me an idea of what proportion of the population and/or investors own 1, 2, 3, 5 or more residential investment properties? I've seen it touted around at various seminars over the years and remember it being very very low with each consecutive purchase.

I've contacted the ABS & REIA and both say they dont collect this type data. So where these seminars come up with a figure is a mystery.

 

[dan c]

Data I have seen second hand from the tax office suggests that 1 in 7, or 14% of taxpayers are claimiing rental property expenses in their tax returns. Unfortunately it doesn't mention how many own more than one property.

 

[twobobsworth]

There was a little mention here

http://www.smartcompany.com.au/prop...-s-richest-suburbs-revealed-in-ato-stats.html

As Dan said, 1.7m people apparently own an IP with 486,000 owning more than one.

 

[gooram]

You could always poll the forum. Assuming we are all in that 14%, and you get a broad enough sample, it might give you a vague idea of how that 14% is made up.

 

[sash]

All I know is that of all IP owners only 1% own more than 5 properties.

This means if there are 1.7m people with IPs only 17k own more than 5. I suspect that of the 1.7m some don't own a PPOR.....

There was a little mention here

http://www.smartcompany.com.au/prop...-s-richest-suburbs-revealed-in-ato-stats.html

As Dan said, 1.7m people apparently own an IP with 486,000 owning more than one.

 

[Rixter]

All I know is that of all IP owners only 1% own more than 5 properties.

This is what I'm questioning. Where did you get that from ? Touted at seminars like me?

 

[sash]

I can't finger it but believe it was from ATO stats....

This is what I'm questioning. Where did you get that from ? Touted at seminars like me?

 

[batgirl]

I dont personally know many people with IPs. I have 2 and recently a PPOR. I have a fellow colleague who has 3 IPs and a PPOR, but she is the only person I know with more than one ip. She doesnt really advertise it and neither do I as Ive found in general people think you are either crazy and will end up bankrupt , or they think you are rich and want to take advantage of you or -they just plain dont believe you.

My grandfather had several rental properties - he got me started 10 yrs ago with this whole caper! He bequethed a property to myself and my brother. Interestingly my brother who is 5 yrs older than me sold his basically spent the money and now 10 yrs later has only just bought a house.

I think I will go for one more then concentrate on other aspects of my life.

 

[Sunfish]

Hello. Im wondering if anyone has or knows the figures to give me an idea of what proportion of the population and/or investors own 1, 2, 3, 5 or more residential investment properties?

Logic tells me it can only be a small percentage.

If >60% are in their own home, less than 10% could possibly own four rental properties. But a lot of folk with investment property only have one.

It's a big world so conceptually BHP can keep growing but residential property has a definite, absolute, finite limit to the size of the market. It has been touted as too easy for too long and has become so crowded that it has now become a case of survival of the fittest.

I dislike crowded markets.

 

[our obsession]

Searches can be tricky, hit/miss affairs looking this up:

From ABS: 4102.0 - Australian Social Trends, 1995

http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@...9352fb4d7f5cbd27ca2570ec007530a6!OpenDocument

Housing Stock: Investment in residential rental property

In 1993, three-quarters of a million people were investors in residential rental property. 78% of these people invested in only one rental property.


The supply of rental housing has been left largely to market forces1. This has not always resulted in an adequate supply of affordable private rental dwellings, particularly for low and moderate income earners. Investment by individuals in residential rental property has a significant impact on rental housing supply and subsequently affects the demand for public housing

...there is more-->


and:

8711.0 - Household Investors in Rental Dwellings, Australia, Jun 1997

Here:

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@...4F21545A53A56F13CA2568A90013938F?OpenDocument

Respondents were asked how many residential rental properties they owned. Each respondent was then asked to provide data for their most recently acquired properties up to a maximum of three. Therefore, for one-parent and one-person income units, data were collected for up to three properties and for couple income units, up to six properties. Data in this diagram relate to each income unit's ownership of these properties.

INTRODUCTION
The private rental market in Australia provided housing for approximately 20% of Australian households in 1995-96. It was the second largest source of housing after home ownership. In size, the private rental market far outweighed the public housing sector which accommodated 6% of Australian households (Housing Occupancy and Costs, Australia, 1995-96 (Cat. no. 4130.0)).

Then I get a bit lost, but someone might get the hang of this:

Rental Investors Survey

The Rental Investors Survey (RIN) was conducted in 1997 (and in 1993 as the Investors in Rental Dwellings Survey). It collected information on the demographic characteristics and economic resources of people who invest in residential rental property in Australia, and the physical characteristics of their most recently acquired properties.

More information on the RIN is included in the Directory of Statistical Sources.

Information from the RIN is available in a publication and as a Confidentialised Unit Record File. Customised tables can also be produced on request to meet individual user needs (standard consultancy rates are charged). For further information, contact the National Information and Referral Service.

From:

http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/c3...86f50c51f5dba982ca257259000bd4a4!OpenDocument

Spiderman is really good at ratting this stuff out and interpreting...

 

[our obsession]

..and this, getting off track, but interesting also especially the household debt component graph of personal/investor housing and owner occ:

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/4102.0Main+Features60March 2009

Household Debt

INTRODUCTION

The onset of the global 'credit crunch' in mid 2007 and the subsequent financial turmoil appears to have discouraged households from taking on new debt. As an example, the number of owner occupied housing commitments (including refinancing) fell by 22% from the December 2007 quarter to the December 2008 quarter (from 200,000 to 156,000).

 

[Rixter]

OO, thanks for your time into this but as mentioned on the first post the ABS have told me they dont collect the data or track what Im wanting to know.

 

[BayView]

Marg Lomas quoted in one of her fabulous books this figure.

Can't remember exactly, but it's something like 5% of investors have more than 2 IP's, and maybe 1% have more than 5.

 

[jaycee]

Yes same figure pretty much quoted by Michael yardney and it seems all the others too.

Where do they get it from is the question ?

 

[our obsession]

Only a start:

Rixter:

Im wondering if anyone has or knows the figures to give me an idea of what proportion of the population and/or investors own 1, 2, 3, 5 or more residential investment properties? I've seen it touted around at various seminars over the years and remember it being very very low with each consecutive purchase.

From ABS: http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@...4F21545A53A56F13CA2568A90013938F?OpenDocument

In this publication, investors have been grouped into restricted household units called income units (see Glossary). This choice of analytical unit reflects the pooling or sharing of income that takes place (to varying degrees) within families. These relationships comprise couple relationships and relationships between parent(s) and dependent children. All other household members are assumed to form separate income units.

HOUSEHOLD INVESTORS IN RESIDENTIAL RENTAL PROPERTY

In June 1997, approximately 584,200 income units owned or partly owned residential rental property (table 1).

These rental investors represented 6.5% of all income units living in private dwellings in Australia.

Most of these investors were small investors as 76% owned or partly owned one property only (table 1).

As landlords they constituted a diverse group in terms of their age, their income, their labour force status and family status. However, certain patterns of investment were distinguishable for different groups

Probably as close to figures of one IP owners (snapshot) anyway. A start. ABS folk might not realise this was a oncer, or a two-er.

Bit of lobbying for it to be updated I see.

 

[HandyAndy888]

Interesting that it's difficult to find this data. Also, does non-cash flow IP (such as a block of land) count? If it does, I'm in the 1%, he he he....

Makes me feel all good that does..why, I don't know...

I do know, it because it makes me an indaveedual *little boy from add a few years ago*

 

[Nathan]

Its just a number that they use to make you feel like your in the big boys club Rick.

I rememer seeing it like people that are dead from school are like 5, people who own their home is like 60% people who own more then 1 property is like 15% people who own more then 3 is like 2% and people who own 5 or more is like .05%

 

[Rixter]

I rememer seeing it like people that are dead from school are like 5, people who own their home is like 60% people who own more then 1 property is like 15% people who own more then 3 is like 2% and people who own 5 or more is like .05%

Nathan, can you translate that into english for me?

The more I read it, the more like mud it becomes.

 

[Nathan]

Rick, I dont get it myself either and I wrote it.


I remember reading in a book and hearing the same quote stated at a seminar...Something to the effect of, when your 40years old;

people that are dead from school are like 5 of them, people who own their own home is like 60%, people who own more then 1 property is like 15%, people who own more then 3 is like 2%, and people who own 5 or more is like .05%

Bad speller in a hurry = no good.

 

[parra1]

I dont personally know many people with IPs. I have 2 and recently a PPOR. I have a fellow colleague who has 3 IPs and a PPOR, but she is the only person I know with more than one ip. She doesnt really advertise it and neither do I as Ive found in general people think you are either crazy and will end up bankrupt , or they think you are rich and want to take advantage of you or -they just plain dont believe you.

My grandfather had several rental properties - he got me started 10 yrs ago with this whole caper! He bequethed a property to myself and my brother. Interestingly my brother who is 5 yrs older than me sold his basically spent the money and now 10 yrs later has only just bought a house.

I think I will go for one more then concentrate on other aspects of my life.

Agree 100% with batgirl, people have certain perceptions of you if you tell them you own investment properties. I own 4 IP's and own outright my PPOR. I have always worked two to three jobs, I do it tough at times, but I wouldnt have it any other way. I have earnt my little bit of security. No handouts, inheritances or good luck. Just plain hard work and having a real Go. Just wished the downturn waited another 10 years...... It makes it hard at times when people believe that you are rolling in $$$$$ and try and take advantage of that..... But that happens in life......