Purchasing in VIC - Frankston Area
- Thread starter Cherry Pro
- Start date
Haven't been to Frankston since Dec ! I talk to most agents on a weekly basis and get the info from them. Also in touch with some Frankston investors and a BA.
Auction results are in the papers on Sun/ Mon.
Harris
Leader Newspaper 11-2-08
Safe Harbour a step closer
A SAFE boat harbour is a step closer to reality, according to Frankston Council.
Chief executive Steve Gawler said an independent panel would consider the project by the end of March.
And a State Government decision on the preferred development model is expected in the second quarter of 2008. The next steps would include an invitation for tenders to construct and operate the harbour, establishing a community liaison and reference group and approval of construction plans.
"The council is working closely with the State Goverment to finalise its preferred development model for the facility," Mr. Gawler said. A workshop was held last February to allow councillors to guage the degree of support for the project from both the Government and private sector.
As the harbour is to be substantially funded and operated by the private sector, this support hinged on the long-term viability of the project, Mr. Gawler said.
"As a result, council endorsed a model which highlighted additional elements considered necessary to ensure its viability," he said.
Toni
Safe Harbour a step closer
A SAFE boat harbour is a step closer to reality, according to Frankston Council.
Chief executive Steve Gawler said an independent panel would consider the project by the end of March.
And a State Government decision on the preferred development model is expected in the second quarter of 2008. The next steps would include an invitation for tenders to construct and operate the harbour, establishing a community liaison and reference group and approval of construction plans.
"The council is working closely with the State Goverment to finalise its preferred development model for the facility," Mr. Gawler said. A workshop was held last February to allow councillors to guage the degree of support for the project from both the Government and private sector.
As the harbour is to be substantially funded and operated by the private sector, this support hinged on the long-term viability of the project, Mr. Gawler said.
"As a result, council endorsed a model which highlighted additional elements considered necessary to ensure its viability," he said.
Toni
Ok experts, i've been looking in frankston and still trying to determine the value of particular properties vs the mean.
apologies for being unprepared without more than a median and a few monday age value's, however i'd like some opinions on the value's of following in karingal district of 3199
do make assumptions about condition if that will help..
asking 270, karingal region
http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...r=&cc=&c=99990600&s=vic&snf=rbs&tm=1202729045
asking 260, karingal rd
http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...r=&cc=&c=99990600&s=vic&snf=rbs&tm=1202729045
Also, Harris mentioned a the proportion of properties 'under contract/ offer'.
Obviously 'under offer' means just that, however what type/ level of offer would you guys suggest would warrant an agent to update the listing as 'under contract/ under offer'?
should i expect 'under offer' is whenever they get any lowball offer (ie: a 'crazy' 200 for asking 270 when recent sales are ~240+)?
thanks...
apologies for being unprepared without more than a median and a few monday age value's, however i'd like some opinions on the value's of following in karingal district of 3199
do make assumptions about condition if that will help..
asking 270, karingal region
http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...r=&cc=&c=99990600&s=vic&snf=rbs&tm=1202729045
asking 260, karingal rd
http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...r=&cc=&c=99990600&s=vic&snf=rbs&tm=1202729045
Also, Harris mentioned a the proportion of properties 'under contract/ offer'.
Obviously 'under offer' means just that, however what type/ level of offer would you guys suggest would warrant an agent to update the listing as 'under contract/ under offer'?
should i expect 'under offer' is whenever they get any lowball offer (ie: a 'crazy' 200 for asking 270 when recent sales are ~240+)?
thanks...
"Under Offer" means there is a signed contract on the deal and there is a 99% chance that the property is sold. In Victoria, agents would update the status to "Under Offer", when the vendor also signs and accepts the offer on the property.
Harris
thanks Harris.
I learned this from speaking to agents this morning.
I guess this does not take into account any 'subject to' conditions in this contract (ie: finance/ formal property inspection),
however i gather it is rare contracts are cancelled as a result of unsatisfactory resolution of typical conditions.
I learned this from speaking to agents this morning.
I guess this does not take into account any 'subject to' conditions in this contract (ie: finance/ formal property inspection),
however i gather it is rare contracts are cancelled as a result of unsatisfactory resolution of typical conditions.
ManyManeuvers
'under offer' is not always whenever they get any lowball offer,
Most agents wont even humour the idea of submitting any old price. especially with low ones.
It's part of taking to the client what they believe will come close to selling the place and then negotiate between buyer/seller
Negotiating.
But as Harris pointed out it's 99% NOT 100%
We settled on 4 properties in Frankston on that 1% back in November last year.
Until the vendor signs that document it's still active and open to offers.
We worked out the price, gave a "one only or we walk away offer" with no conditions. Even got an extended settlement which we needed, as settlement would have clashed with a QLD reno an Mrs B&M being overseas for a month, and the agent claimed the extended settlement to be impossible.
So you find the impossible can become possible.
Heres another good one thats come on the market.
http://www.realestate.com.au/realestate/agent/pro+active+real+estate+mornington/prjmor/104633040
http://www.realestate.com.au/realestate/agent/pro+active+real+estate+mornington/prjmor/104633040
Gussman,
A little close to the train line for my liking. Whilst this is a good area, it would depend on where abouts in that street that property was located, and for the money, not sure that I would be prepared to pay that for a two bedroom bulldoze job on an average size block.
Toni
A little close to the train line for my liking. Whilst this is a good area, it would depend on where abouts in that street that property was located, and for the money, not sure that I would be prepared to pay that for a two bedroom bulldoze job on an average size block.
Toni
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thanks Bricks & Mortar, very helpful.
i'm starting to see the 'light' behind the ability to negotiate well. having 2 open offers out there is helping speed up my learning a great deal!
i'm starting to see the 'light' behind the ability to negotiate well. having 2 open offers out there is helping speed up my learning a great deal!
Toni, its adverstised for a bit less than double than what they paid for it about 4.5 years ago. Yes its one house from the train line, but the trains on that line do not go past vey often. The best thing about that pocket is that if frankston is ever going to expand it would most likely expand towards there, with most probably high density housing. Plus the proposed aquatic centre will be not far from there. Whilst it is not for me, some people on this site with money to burn could do a lot worse.
ignorant agents hurting investors in frankston, seaford etc
I sent some cashed-up overseas based medical colleagues to both domain and realestate.com.au, telling them about the new freeway, the monash campus (overseas buyers love to buy near university campuses), the proposed marina.......
But thanks to the complacency (or ignorance) of local agents who undersell the entire area, my medical conference buddies could see no mention of marina, uni or new highway when they were looking at the online adverts for houses in seaford, frankston etc. One disbelieving cardiologist called to say "there's no mention of a new highway, marina or university in the adverts, if it were true, it'd be in every advert - and without these catalysts, I plan to invest elsewhere" So he decided to pump his $5m kitty into Narre Warren and the Dandenongs.
If you own property in Frankston, Carrum Downs, Seaford or surrounds, as I do, tell the local agents about this sorry tale. Insist that ALL their adverts make mention of three things: University, Marina, New Highway. And if they won't mention these things in each and every advertisement, their stubbornness will cost us dollars as foreign cash gets pumped elsewhere.
Personally, I am going to sack agents who put a lid on my investment pot. I suggest the rest of you do the same until they get the message.We want the area to be gentrified. Although I have working class roots and nobody can call me a snob, I'd rather not be investing in a no-income, crime-tolerant area. Which is the sort of thing agents seem to want for the local area.
It's up to us, as investors, to put a stop to their nonsense and to make it clear that we don't want OUR investments to be undersold. If you are serious about improving the area, kick up a huge fuss at the way online advertisements undersell Frankston, Seaford and the local area by not mentioning macro-developments like the freeway, marina, university etc Most agents rarely own more than the house they live in. They make money by selling houses - the cheaper the better as far as they are concerned because they work on turnover. And no matter what, they always get their commission.
I will stop now, I'm frothing at the mouth.
*Disclaimer* I own several dozen properties in the area & am happy to disclose my interest in this regard.
I sent some cashed-up overseas based medical colleagues to both domain and realestate.com.au, telling them about the new freeway, the monash campus (overseas buyers love to buy near university campuses), the proposed marina.......
But thanks to the complacency (or ignorance) of local agents who undersell the entire area, my medical conference buddies could see no mention of marina, uni or new highway when they were looking at the online adverts for houses in seaford, frankston etc. One disbelieving cardiologist called to say "there's no mention of a new highway, marina or university in the adverts, if it were true, it'd be in every advert - and without these catalysts, I plan to invest elsewhere" So he decided to pump his $5m kitty into Narre Warren and the Dandenongs.
If you own property in Frankston, Carrum Downs, Seaford or surrounds, as I do, tell the local agents about this sorry tale. Insist that ALL their adverts make mention of three things: University, Marina, New Highway. And if they won't mention these things in each and every advertisement, their stubbornness will cost us dollars as foreign cash gets pumped elsewhere.
Personally, I am going to sack agents who put a lid on my investment pot. I suggest the rest of you do the same until they get the message.We want the area to be gentrified. Although I have working class roots and nobody can call me a snob, I'd rather not be investing in a no-income, crime-tolerant area. Which is the sort of thing agents seem to want for the local area.
It's up to us, as investors, to put a stop to their nonsense and to make it clear that we don't want OUR investments to be undersold. If you are serious about improving the area, kick up a huge fuss at the way online advertisements undersell Frankston, Seaford and the local area by not mentioning macro-developments like the freeway, marina, university etc Most agents rarely own more than the house they live in. They make money by selling houses - the cheaper the better as far as they are concerned because they work on turnover. And no matter what, they always get their commission.
I will stop now, I'm frothing at the mouth.
*Disclaimer* I own several dozen properties in the area & am happy to disclose my interest in this regard.
newhigh, are you looking to sell?
not the agents, apparently every ad for Frankston property should mention freeway, uni and future marina...
net buyer - I love property
Replying to Toni & I Love Property........
I am an investor and let me qualify my remarks - I'm in it to make money. As a working class lad who has made good, I'm also in it to lift up neighbourhoods in the process of making a dollar. Having grown up in a dodgy neighborhood myself, I know how people can be affected by their environment. Lifting up neighbourhoods is something that investors can do easily enough, it is all about money, good government and common sense. Any investor who is not interested in his fellow man doesn't rate highly in my dictionary.
Just one line in each and every online advert can do wonders in attracting new money, the lifeblood of any up and coming area: "this house is close to a new highway, proposed marina, university campus"\ A single line like the above would have induced my cardiologist friend to invest his $5m kitty in the area.
But *moan, groan* agents don't seem to care. Most are glib and generally don't give a damn. Totally blase, they think they know all there is to know about land and property. Mentioning the 3 growth catalysts for the local area is easily done - it needn't take more than a single line. But they couldn't be bothered.
I own close to 100 properties around the country, mainly in cities. Trust me, it can be very frustrating dealing with 99% of real estate agents. And no matter where you go, even overseas, the attitude is much the same. The mindset of the salesman or saleswoman is almost never long-term. It is about making their commission, pure and simple. Nothing more. It may not be their fault, all human behavior is governed by brain structure and chemistry. Not all people are the same. It'd be boring if we were all similar.
About agents. Of course not everyone is the same. But its their frequent glibness and pomposity that gets my goat. And their refusal to accept responsibility when things go wrong. I'm a soft spoken fellow. After being pushed around a few too many times by arrogant, bullying or pushy agents, I am ashamed to say *confession time, helped by red wine* that one of my assistants, with my connivance, once used RP data to check up on a few of the "know it all" types. Surely we could learn from them if we only knew how wise they were?
Before I say more, it is an offence to do this nowdays. So don't try this at home.
What we did was totally wrong, highly improper, totally inexcusable. That I am sharing this information with you will no doubt lower me in your esteem. But, fortified on red wine, share I must for the sake of our collective education! I wish someone had shared what I now know with me many years ago. But alas, those who know do not usually speak. And those who speak usually do not know !
.
Surprise surprise... our sneaky research revealed that the loudest, rudest, most arrogant agents often did not own any property. The suits and flashy hire purchase cars, not to mention the close-minded know-it-all attitude, were all they were worth. Perhaps they were divorced and lost it, you may ask? Umm not so!. Most of the few agents we checked out were over 40 and had never ever bothered to buy a house. And, in my limited sample space, I never met an agent with more than one or two investment properties.
Folks, what i did was totally rude and *cringe* a potential violation of the (Cwth) Privacy Act 1988. That I/we did such a dastardly thing before it became an offence did not make it right. I am very contrite. Be assured that I did not check up on the humble, honest agents - I respect people who respect me.
Why am I mentioning this here? Folks, don't EVER think agents know more than you or I. Do your own work, listen to nobody, and dont ever be afraid to put silly bugger agents in their place. Yes, from time to time I do meet nice agents.But nice does not necessarily mean well-informed. As I say, if they really knew, they'd be buyers themselves.
Someone asked if I am selling in Frankston. Well, in dollar terms I am a net buyer. And I will be doing the same for quite a few more years at the very least. My usual preference is for houses on larger blocks, the sort of things with eventual development potential. Unfortunately I can never resist a bargain and in addition to development sized blocks, I have secured (very cheaply) a number of eminently rentable houses on smaller blocks. Nothing wrong with these houses, all solid brick and tenanted, all slightly less than 600sqm. But unless I can buy out the neighbors, these are too small for eventual development so they may be more suited for owner occupiers. So to answer your question, IF I can find more houses on larger, development sized blocks, I may consider selling some of the smaller ones. But I'm not going to dump anything for anything less than the median price. And if I cannot find larger blocks to buy, I will hang on to what I have got regardless of size. Given that the median price keeps going up and up I am not complaining.
OK back to agents.....if you own property in the area and your managing agent's online sales advertisements do not mention the 3 local catalysts (new highway, proposed marina, university) ...fire your agent immediately. By default or ignorance, your agent is effectively directing potential investors to other areas. He is putting a lid on potential gain in the worth of your property. Don't put up with it. Tell them the sad tale of my friend, the Cardiologist and the $5m that could have been invested locally but wasn't.
Keep checking your agents advertisements on domain and realestate.com.au. Each and every advert should make mention of these 3 price-shifting catalysts. Dare i repeat the same mantra: new highway, proposed marina, world-class university.
OK enough red wine for tonight. Does anyone else have any confessions?
Happy Investing all......
Replying to Toni & I Love Property........
I am an investor and let me qualify my remarks - I'm in it to make money. As a working class lad who has made good, I'm also in it to lift up neighbourhoods in the process of making a dollar. Having grown up in a dodgy neighborhood myself, I know how people can be affected by their environment. Lifting up neighbourhoods is something that investors can do easily enough, it is all about money, good government and common sense. Any investor who is not interested in his fellow man doesn't rate highly in my dictionary.
Just one line in each and every online advert can do wonders in attracting new money, the lifeblood of any up and coming area: "this house is close to a new highway, proposed marina, university campus"\ A single line like the above would have induced my cardiologist friend to invest his $5m kitty in the area.
But *moan, groan* agents don't seem to care. Most are glib and generally don't give a damn. Totally blase, they think they know all there is to know about land and property. Mentioning the 3 growth catalysts for the local area is easily done - it needn't take more than a single line. But they couldn't be bothered.
I own close to 100 properties around the country, mainly in cities. Trust me, it can be very frustrating dealing with 99% of real estate agents. And no matter where you go, even overseas, the attitude is much the same. The mindset of the salesman or saleswoman is almost never long-term. It is about making their commission, pure and simple. Nothing more. It may not be their fault, all human behavior is governed by brain structure and chemistry. Not all people are the same. It'd be boring if we were all similar.
About agents. Of course not everyone is the same. But its their frequent glibness and pomposity that gets my goat. And their refusal to accept responsibility when things go wrong. I'm a soft spoken fellow. After being pushed around a few too many times by arrogant, bullying or pushy agents, I am ashamed to say *confession time, helped by red wine* that one of my assistants, with my connivance, once used RP data to check up on a few of the "know it all" types. Surely we could learn from them if we only knew how wise they were?
Before I say more, it is an offence to do this nowdays. So don't try this at home.
What we did was totally wrong, highly improper, totally inexcusable. That I am sharing this information with you will no doubt lower me in your esteem. But, fortified on red wine, share I must for the sake of our collective education! I wish someone had shared what I now know with me many years ago. But alas, those who know do not usually speak. And those who speak usually do not know !
.
Surprise surprise... our sneaky research revealed that the loudest, rudest, most arrogant agents often did not own any property. The suits and flashy hire purchase cars, not to mention the close-minded know-it-all attitude, were all they were worth. Perhaps they were divorced and lost it, you may ask? Umm not so!. Most of the few agents we checked out were over 40 and had never ever bothered to buy a house. And, in my limited sample space, I never met an agent with more than one or two investment properties.
Folks, what i did was totally rude and *cringe* a potential violation of the (Cwth) Privacy Act 1988. That I/we did such a dastardly thing before it became an offence did not make it right. I am very contrite. Be assured that I did not check up on the humble, honest agents - I respect people who respect me.
Why am I mentioning this here? Folks, don't EVER think agents know more than you or I. Do your own work, listen to nobody, and dont ever be afraid to put silly bugger agents in their place. Yes, from time to time I do meet nice agents.But nice does not necessarily mean well-informed. As I say, if they really knew, they'd be buyers themselves.
Someone asked if I am selling in Frankston. Well, in dollar terms I am a net buyer. And I will be doing the same for quite a few more years at the very least. My usual preference is for houses on larger blocks, the sort of things with eventual development potential. Unfortunately I can never resist a bargain and in addition to development sized blocks, I have secured (very cheaply) a number of eminently rentable houses on smaller blocks. Nothing wrong with these houses, all solid brick and tenanted, all slightly less than 600sqm. But unless I can buy out the neighbors, these are too small for eventual development so they may be more suited for owner occupiers. So to answer your question, IF I can find more houses on larger, development sized blocks, I may consider selling some of the smaller ones. But I'm not going to dump anything for anything less than the median price. And if I cannot find larger blocks to buy, I will hang on to what I have got regardless of size. Given that the median price keeps going up and up I am not complaining.
OK back to agents.....if you own property in the area and your managing agent's online sales advertisements do not mention the 3 local catalysts (new highway, proposed marina, university) ...fire your agent immediately. By default or ignorance, your agent is effectively directing potential investors to other areas. He is putting a lid on potential gain in the worth of your property. Don't put up with it. Tell them the sad tale of my friend, the Cardiologist and the $5m that could have been invested locally but wasn't.
Keep checking your agents advertisements on domain and realestate.com.au. Each and every advert should make mention of these 3 price-shifting catalysts. Dare i repeat the same mantra: new highway, proposed marina, world-class university.
OK enough red wine for tonight. Does anyone else have any confessions?
Happy Investing all......
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I was not under the impression that agents are trying to undersell Frankston or Seaford?? They kept saying how much potential these areas have, and also backed up the increase in price with some stats from the last 2-3 yrs. No idea about Carrum Down as I never attempted looking for an investment there. Personally, I would have thought that gentrification will take place by itself if OOs see the areas as a desirable place to live in, and wouldn't require too much effort from agents anyway..
The advertisements on the realestate.com.au site have limited space to detail all of the properties details. It may not be possible to then detail all the facilities Frankston has to offer, along with the developments that are currently underway or others that are still being considered.
There are so many developments here, I would think it would be in the purchasers best interest to contact the local Council in Frankston, or for that matter any area that they maybe interested in to find out as much as possible about that suburb before making rash judgements on whether or not to invest there.
Toni
There are so many developments here, I would think it would be in the purchasers best interest to contact the local Council in Frankston, or for that matter any area that they maybe interested in to find out as much as possible about that suburb before making rash judgements on whether or not to invest there.
Toni
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Hope you have enjoyed your wine last night, whilst I can see where you are coming from, there are so many developments happening in Frankston, to just mention a few would not give this area the justice it deserves. Frankston is going through major changes that will see this area change forever.
Frankston Tafe to bay structure plan
Frankston Safe Boat Harbour
Eastlink
Zoning changes to the central business area of frankston to include high density buildings, changing the landscape completely.
Frankston Regional Aquatic Health & Wellbeing Centre
Kananook Creek Boulevard (8mil invested from Government)
The Master Plan proposes Wells Street will become the heart of a new urban village atmosphere, surrounded by shops, cafes and family entertainment with the main pedestrian promenade, leading people from the TAFE Campus through the inner hub of activity to the lifeblood of the City, the Frankston Foreshore. The Foreshore is currently being reshaped to create a lively leisure precinct with boardwalk, picnic areas, playground, feature bridge with light display, unique artworks and three major restaurants overlooking the Bay.
Parallel to the foreshore, the master plan will rejuvenate the Kananook Creek precinct with the creation of a lively creek promenade and new 5-6 storey apartment development opportunities, whilst ensuring the protection and enhancement of surrounding open space.
The development of a new, integrated transport hub as part of the State Governments Transit Cities initiative will include a new rail and bus interchange. This will complement the integration of the adjacent TAFE campus and Young Street precinct.
There are probably more that I have forgotten, not to mention the existing facilities, such as you have mentioned, Monash University, Chisolm Tafe, Frankston High School (One of Melbournes top state high schools), Shopping Centres, transport, Cinemas, restaurants, foreshore board walk etc.
To really understand what is going on in any area, your best start is not the "for sales adds" , but the local councils. Before you buy anywhere, you should know as much or more that the agents showing you the property.
There are some great agents in the area, and as in any area there will be some not so great. I have chosen not to rely on anyone but myself. Some agents are fantastic and I am in touch with them regularly to keep up with what's happening within the market.
I got to where I am by not listening to anyone. After doing the research I did, I listened to my own gut and trusted my own foresight, which has paid off.
Learning about developments before they are made public is how you make money, not to say that you haven't, studying up on areas, reading, ringing, talking to agents, basically keeping your nose to the ground. I don't believe this can be achieved by looking purely on realestate.com.au or any other realestate sales website.
Hope you feel better, I know this wouldn't be easy to see happen.
Toni.
Frankston Tafe to bay structure plan
Frankston Safe Boat Harbour
Eastlink
Zoning changes to the central business area of frankston to include high density buildings, changing the landscape completely.
Frankston Regional Aquatic Health & Wellbeing Centre
Kananook Creek Boulevard (8mil invested from Government)
The Master Plan proposes Wells Street will become the heart of a new urban village atmosphere, surrounded by shops, cafes and family entertainment with the main pedestrian promenade, leading people from the TAFE Campus through the inner hub of activity to the lifeblood of the City, the Frankston Foreshore. The Foreshore is currently being reshaped to create a lively leisure precinct with boardwalk, picnic areas, playground, feature bridge with light display, unique artworks and three major restaurants overlooking the Bay.
Parallel to the foreshore, the master plan will rejuvenate the Kananook Creek precinct with the creation of a lively creek promenade and new 5-6 storey apartment development opportunities, whilst ensuring the protection and enhancement of surrounding open space.
The development of a new, integrated transport hub as part of the State Governments Transit Cities initiative will include a new rail and bus interchange. This will complement the integration of the adjacent TAFE campus and Young Street precinct.
There are probably more that I have forgotten, not to mention the existing facilities, such as you have mentioned, Monash University, Chisolm Tafe, Frankston High School (One of Melbournes top state high schools), Shopping Centres, transport, Cinemas, restaurants, foreshore board walk etc.
To really understand what is going on in any area, your best start is not the "for sales adds" , but the local councils. Before you buy anywhere, you should know as much or more that the agents showing you the property.
There are some great agents in the area, and as in any area there will be some not so great. I have chosen not to rely on anyone but myself. Some agents are fantastic and I am in touch with them regularly to keep up with what's happening within the market.
I got to where I am by not listening to anyone. After doing the research I did, I listened to my own gut and trusted my own foresight, which has paid off.
Learning about developments before they are made public is how you make money, not to say that you haven't, studying up on areas, reading, ringing, talking to agents, basically keeping your nose to the ground. I don't believe this can be achieved by looking purely on realestate.com.au or any other realestate sales website.
Hope you feel better, I know this wouldn't be easy to see happen.
Toni.
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