Qld State Govt approves New Logan Planning Scheme. Start in May

B

Beanie Girl

http://www.logan.qld.gov.au/about-c...otential-set-to-soar-with-new-planning-scheme

Logan's Potential Set To Soar With New Planning Scheme

Published: 23 April 2015

Logan City Council
A major milestone has been reached in the development of the new Logan Planning Scheme after the State Government approved it for implementation.

The scheme is anticipated to commence in late May.

Planning and Development Committee Chairperson, Councillor Cherie Dalley (Division 8) said the new scheme would take the City of Logan into the future, as it replaced the city's three existing schemes that had been in place since boundary changes in 2008.

"The new Logan Planning Scheme 2015 will help Council to manage population growth, plan for a sustainable future for Logan and guide the way land is used and developed across the city," she said.

"It will reduce red tape and simplify the rules for property development and encourage economic and employment growth in Logan, with new development set to be assessed against the new scheme."

Cr Dalley said the community had been heavily involved with bringing the new planning scheme to fruition, following extensive community consultation in the first part of 2014.

Mayor Pam Parker said she was thrilled the State Government had given its tick of approval to the new planning scheme.

"It's a major achievement and will unlock Logan's potential as we prepare for more than 200,000 new residents over the next 20 years, and all of the requirements that go along with that, including housing and employment to ensure we grow in a sustainable way," she said.

"The new scheme is one of the final and most important things we as a Council needed to do after the city's boundaries expanded significantly and I'm grateful that it has now been signed off by the Minister for Infrastructure, Local Government and Planning, the Hon. Jackie Trad MP."

Council will provide more information about the start date for the Logan Planning Scheme 2015 in early May.
 
I have been exchanging about a dozen emails with LCC with this new planning, in particular:

(1) dual occupancy (2 titles - attached or detached, can be sold separately)
(2) dual occupancy (1 title - attached or detached, can not be sold separately)

The understanding is that for (1) you must have at least 1000m2 lot, or 700m2 corner lot.

I have a 630m2 corner lot in LCC, and I am interested in (1), with the view to sell off 1 when completed.

The response from LCC is that it is still possible to approval (1) even for lots that are less than the required minimum, ie 1000m2 regular lot, 700m2 corner lot.

However it will be subject to 'equivalent density' that is based on bedrooms ratios.

My existing corner property has a 3 bed dwelling on it. Based on equivalent density calculation I can build no more than a 2 bed dwelling. Now this 2 bedroom dwelling can also have a study room, garage and is not limited to 70m2 like the annexed unit scenario.

Another option for me is turn my existing 3 bedroom dwelling into 2 bedroom + study and therefore I can build a 3 bedroom

There are pros and cons of doing (1) or (2), and it all depends on individual situation.
 
hey RR, sounds good that you are not limited to the 70m size limit for auxiliary units. Is it because it's a corner block?
Must you submit a planning application for this 2 bedroom + study (not limited to 70m) before the New Logan Plan is gazetted in late May?
Or can you submit the planning application even after the date the new Logan Plan is gazetted?

Curious, how do you calculate { 'equivalent density' that is based on bedrooms ratios}?

I am familiar with the density calculation for townhouse zoning as one of my IPs is zoned 'townhouse' and the calculation is "(land size x 40) divided by 10,000.

Sounds like the calculation based on {'equivalent density' based on bedroom ratios} is a different formula.
 
The definition for equivalent dwellings is in Schedule 1.
It is under the Administrative definitions in 1.2 of Schedule 1.
http://tinyurl.com/n2ny3bf, search " schedule 1 " and download PDF, search for equivalent dwelling.

It states the following:
<begin snippet>
Equivalent dwellings
The number of dwellings calculated and represented by the equivalent dwelling ratio. This ratio is a way to calculate dwelling yield based on an
equivalence factor. For the purposes of the planning scheme the following ratios are used:
(a) a one bedroom dwelling equals 0.5 equivalent dwellings;
(b) a two bedroom dwelling equals 0.7 equivalent dwellings;
(c) a dwelling with three or more bedrooms equals 1 equivalent dwelling.

<end snippet>

Corner blocks have 28.5 equivalent dwellings per hectare
Regular blocks have 20.0 equivalent dwellings per hectare

So my corner lot size of 630m2 and the density of 28.5 equivalent dwellings per hectare.

The 630m2 lot is equal to 1.80 equivalent dwellings. As at this density, 1 equivalent dwelling is 350m2.

So I can have combination of 1,2 and 3 bedrooms? as long as the total does not exceed 1.8 equivalent dwellings.

So according to LCC:
1 bed and 1 bed = 1.0 equivalent dwellings = OK
1 bed and 2 bed = 1.2 equivalent dwellings = OK
1 bed and 3 bed = 1.5 equivalent dwellings = OK
2 bed and 2 bed = 1.4 equivalent dwellings = OK
2 bed and 3 bed = 1.7 equivalent dwellings = OK
3 bed and 3 bed = 2.0 equivalent dwellings = NOT OK

For the same lot size of 630m2 but a regular (non corner block), it has 20.0 equivalent dwellings per hectare. Calculation equal to 1.26 equivalent dwellings. As at this density, 1 equivalent dwelling is 500m2

So according to LCC:
1 bed and 1 bed = 1.0 equivalent dwellings = OK
1 bed and 2 bed = 1.2 equivalent dwellings = OK
1 bed and 3 bed = 1.5 equivalent dwellings = NOT OK
2 bed and 2 bed = 1.4 equivalent dwellings = NOT OK
2 bed and 3 bed = 1.7 equivalent dwellings = NOT OK
3 bed and 3 bed = 2.0 equivalent dwellings = NOT OK

I estimated for a regular block, if you want to build a 2 bed (+ study) you need at least 850m2 regular block.
So for a regular lot (non cornered lot) that is under 850m2, you can only build 1 bed + study and can exceed 70m2.

If your lot is more 700m2 corner or 1000m2, then you will not have a problem with equivalent dwellings, because "a dwelling with three or more bedrooms equals 1 equivalent dwelling"

This can only be done under new LCC planning once it is gazetted. Existing/current LCC planning does not allow dual occupancy.

The annexed unit limited to 70m2 should be associated with dual occupancy - 1 title.

The dual occupancy (2 titles) is not limited to 70m2, but the new dwelling incurs infrastructure fee because you've effectively created a new dwelling in view they can be sold separately. The planning and approval I would assume would be bit more difficult.

Interested in other people's view if they've made separate inquiry on related topic.
 
I put a summary of my own regarding Pros and Cons of Dual Occupancy (2 title) versus Dual Occupancy (1 title, auxiliary unit)

(1) Dual Occupancy (2 title), can build 2 Bed + study with attached garage, based equivalent dwelling ratio
Pros:
? Not limited to max floor space of 70m2.
? Ability to sell 1 and keep 1
Cons:
? Incur infrastructure fee of ~$22k plus strata fees
? Will incur 2 sets council rate notice
? Limited to 2 bedroom (workaround is to add study)

(2) Dual Occupancy (1 title, auxiliary unit) can build up to 3 bedroom, based on max 70m2 build
Pros:
? Not limited to number of bedrooms.
? Only 1 set of council rate notice
? No infrastructure fee required
Cons:
? Limited to max floor space of 70m2
? No ability to sell 1 and keep the other option.

note: this is based on my DD, not necessary confirmed by council or a planner.
 
Guy's you both really know your stuff with these calculations:)

I was there on Friday and Saturday and had a talk with a builder there.

He basically said with this new planning scheme anything under 1000m2 you can only build 2brm granny (auxiliary unit) 70m2, and over 1000m2 you could build only 100m2.

Now with the new scheme you could only Dual Occupancy with 1000m2 and above.

Lol really I don't know what I'm talking about but trying:)
 
Tranquilo said:
He basically said with this new planning scheme anything under 1000m2 you can only build 2brm granny (auxiliary unit) 70m2, and over 1000m2 you could build only 100m2.

Now with the new scheme you could only Dual Occupancy with 1000m2 and above.

Lol really I don't know what I'm talking about but trying:)
Click to expand...

You're spot on, Tranquilo! :D
Under the old scheme, the Logan 2006 planning scheme, dual occupancy was allowed for blocks of 801m and above. Not sure if subdivision was allowed as well. I think it was but there are infrastructure fees to be paid.

And you are right, with 1000m and above, you can build an auxiliary unit of 100m2. But I think, additionally, if in a Low Density Residential zone, a 1000m non-corner block can be sub-divided - dual occupancy (2 titles - attached or detached, can be sold separately). Am I right, RR? :p

From Submission Analysis and Response report

4. Requests for relaxation of Auxiliary unit requirements

Under the draft planning scheme, Auxiliary unit development was self-assessable (that is, no approval required from Council) if one of the dwellings is 70m2 or less in residential zones, or 100m2 or less in the Emerging community zone, Environmental Management and conservation zone, Rural residential zone and Rural zone. A number of submitters requested that these size requirements be relaxed in residential zones.

The larger Auxiliary unit floor area requirements (of 100m2) are permitted in those zones because the development is most likely to occur on larger lots. To maintain consistency with this policy, it was therefore agreed to amend the planning scheme to permit 100m2 Auxiliary units in residential zones when located on lots that are larger than 1,000m2.

A number of other submissions requested that Auxiliary units be permitted to be detached from the principal dwelling. Auxiliary unit development in the draft planning scheme was required to be attached to another dwelling by either a wall or a floor/ceiling. This requirement significantly reduced flexibility in building design and siting, and is a more stringent provision
than that is applied to a Secondary dwelling.

Requiring Auxiliary unit development to be attached has the potential to force less desirable built form outcomes, and create amenity issues between units.

Additionally, requiring units to be attached in rural and rural residential zones is likely to result in a product that is unmarketable in a non-urban setting.

The planning scheme was therefore amended to permit Auxiliary units to be detached from the principal dwelling.
 
Beanie Girl said:
And you are right, with 1000m and above, you can build an auxiliary unit of 100m2. But I think, additionally, if in a Low Density Residential zone, a 1000m non-corner block can be sub-divided - dual occupancy (2 titles - attached or detached, can be sold separately). Am I right, RR? :p
Click to expand...

correct. 1000m2 regular lot can be subdivided into 2 x 500m2 lots. However a corner lot 700m2 can not be subdivided, because the reconfigure of a Lot code requires an average lot size in the Suburban precinct to be 500m2. As such to subdivide the lot you would need 1000m2.

I am on the assumption, once the 1000m2 is cut into 2 lots of 500m2, that each 500m2 lot can have a configuration of main house + 70m2 annexed unit (dual occupancy 1 title) that each can rented out separately, generating 4 separate incomes.

Wonder the numbers stack up if say bought a 1000m2 vacant land, subdivided it into 2 x 500m2, build 2 detached dwelling (2 x 200m2). Each of the 200m2 are dual income properties ( that is main house 130m2 + annexed unit 70m2, attached and separated by a common wall)
 
Dual occ

Hiya

Have spoken to a town planner a few months ago:

the ballpark figures for a dual occ (2 houses on 2 separate titles) is not going to be cheap:mad:

For my case it will be about 60k upwards that includes
a) contribution charge : 21-22K
b) surveyor D.A 7-8K
c) council appln fee 2K
c) surveyor compliace report? 8K
d ) new sewer connection?
e) remove access restriction to road (mine is double road frontage)
f) contribution fee to council for construction of separate driveway

plus basic 3 bedroom 1 bathroom 1 garage build cost about 125K

i think all up about 200K

this is to get 2 titles can sell separately not limited to 2 bedder 70sqm....

versus
annexed unit (under the new Logan plan) : 125K but has the above limits and cannot sell separately

so the key question is: the rental will be much and much the same

all up a separate title will cost about 180-200K ; however there are existing houses for about 250K in Logan area now..

Therein lies the conundrum...what will you do? RetireRich and Beanie Girl especially.
 
I believe the indicative costing you got from your town planner was for a subdivision. Subdivision allows us to subdivide the land and sell off the vacant land.
In a dual occupancy, it is not permissible sell off the vacant land.
I am on the assumption that the surveyor cost you have there could be reduced if its a dual occupancy versus subdivision..

the $125K(1 title-annexed unit) versus $200k (2 title) comparison is not true comparison..

Not sure if your $125k quoted for annexed unit included plans/approval. This needs to be taken into consideration when comparing the $200k build.

Most of your items they would be incurred if you go with the 1 title-annexed unit. In NSW, there is $5-7K for the approval cost(not including S94).

There is a 22k and 28k for 2 bed and 3bed infrastructure fee for the 2 title approach. However I believe there is a bout 10-15k for the dual occ- 2 title, and at least 5k is already incorporated into your 1 title- annexed unit quote already.

i am also not sure there is an option, when the build is completed, but to hold off the strata titling, hence you dont incur the 2 council rate. Does it also postpone the infra fees as well.. that I am not sure.

I guess having a planner/builder to quote on the 2 is the only way to give us true comparison.

The end product sale. The $250k are for old house sitting on larger blocks.
There are mostly 4 bed 2 bath in Marsden selling close to $400k.
3 bed new build on a 400-500m2 I would think to be $350k.
 
Jen,

here is my spreadsheet of analysis 1 title versus 2 title
i am on the assumption that:
  • The development + infra fees are about $40-45K for the 2 title.
  • You chose the dual frontage lot, so it doesn't lose so much value. I allowed $40k drop in value.
  • Based on comparable that the new dwelling sitting on a 450m2 can be sold for $340k in today's market (http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-marsden-118590231?listingType=buy)
  • The profit from the 2 title approach is $112K. I apply the same profit to 1 title approach.

Note:
  1. It is highly unlikely you can achieve $602K for the 1 title for both open market transaction or bank valuation purposes.
  2. There only a 0.5 drop in yield because of the initial high cost of 2 title build ( I am on the assumption that you may not strata title the end product to avoid extra ongoing expenses such council rate, and increasing land tax threshold etc)


Dual Occ - 2 Title
Property (P1) Cost $340,000

Property (P2) Cost:
Build $125,000
infra for 3 bed $28,000
dev cost $15,000
driveway $20,000

P2 cost $188,000
P1 + P2 Cost $528,000

End Product
P1 $300,000
P2 $340,000
P1 + P2 $640,000

Profit $112,000

P1 rent $380 $19,760 5.81%
P2 rent $380 $19,760
P1 + P2 rent $760 $39,520 7.48%



Dual Occ - 1 Title
Property (P1) Cost $340,000

Property (P2) Cost:
Build $125,000
infra fee for 3 bed $-
dev cost $5,000
driveway $20,000

Property (P2) cost $150,000
P1 + P2 Cost $490,000

End Product
P1 + P2 $602,000

Profit $112,000

P1 rent $380 $19,760 5.81%
P2 rent $380 $19,760
P1 + P2 rent $760 $39,520 8.07%
 
Hi somersofters

Im a long time lurker and first time poster as I haven't had anything to add.

My family and I are living in my mothers 1011 sq IP in East Logan. She is in the process of selling her PPOR and IP unit in Sydney. She plans on buying a bigger better house up here and putting a granny flat on it, so we can look after her.

I have obviously been keeping an eye on the new changes and realise it brings other options into the equation. She was going to renovate and rent out the house we are in now. She would have enough money left over to buy another IP as well(all cash).

I really like the block our house is on and think it would be wiser to do a knock down re build. The bother is mum is use to the council regulations in Sydney(inner city/eastern burbs) and thinks its the same up here. She isn't even considering the idea.

So my question is...Does anyone have a general idea about building restrictions? From what I gather Logan is pretty lax.


Feel free to ask any questions about East Logan. It dosnt get much attention here. A hint is to check out the school catchment zones. Most on the East side are enrolment managed and theres a reason why the ones that aren't are. It is actually a little forgotten pocket that no one knows about. We can live anywhere but I like it here for many reasons.
 
virgo said:
plus basic 3 bedroom 1 bathroom 1 garage build cost about 125K

i think all up about 200K

this is to get 2 titles can sell separately not limited to 2 bedder 70sqm....

versus
annexed unit (under the new Logan plan) : 125K but has the above limits and cannot sell separately

so the key question is: the rental will be much and much the same

all up a separate title will cost about 180-200K ; however there are existing houses for about 250K in Logan area now..

Therein lies the conundrum...what will you do? RetireRich and Beanie Girl especially.
Click to expand...

"......a dual occupancy premises contain two dwellings on one lot, whether or not attached, for separate households. It is possible subject to satisfying conditions to obtain a separate title for each dwelling."

Hmmm, Jen, just brainstorming here, can you apply for a planning permit for dual occupancy (second full house, 1 title) either under the old Logan 2006 planning scheme or the new planning scheme (where your lot is treated like a 701m2 corner lot with 2 street frontages)? Your block is 850+ with 2 street frontages.

but make sure the dual occ built is aligned with codes/conditions/requirements for sub division (width of driveway, lot size the new dual occ is on etc etc)

So that may give you the best of both worlds, second full house (dual occ), 1 title initially, 1 set of rates, enjoy rent for a second full house, time to decide whether to subdivide/subdivide and sell off, no need to pay upfront infrastructure and contribution fees etc

I think the surveyor fees and surveyor compliance report (do you mean town planning report?) may be cheaper for dual occ. Surveyor fees - 3k? town planning report- 2.5-3.8k?

Perhaps bounce this idea off a independent town planner or Logan Council. See if it's possible.

From Logan FAQ
Once the new scheme is adopted, can I make a development application against the current planning scheme?

Council may accept development applications to be assessed against the existing Logan, Beaudesert and Gold Coast planning schemes for one year after the adoption of the new planning scheme. After this period, all new development applications will be assessed against the new planning scheme.

http://www.logan.qld.gov.au/plannin...ing-scheme/revised-logan-planning-scheme-faqs

From Submission Analysis and Response Report:
Dual occupancy - Allow corner lot relaxations to apply to properties with two road frontages.
Reduced lot sizes for dual occupancies on corner lots were developed due to the minimal design impact from the street of this kind of development. A property with a dual road frontage would provide a similar development opportunity.

The planning scheme has therefore been amended as requested to reduce the lot sizes for properties with two road frontages when developing Dual occupancies.
 
would the logan planning scheme also effect areas currently in the gold coast planning scheme (i think) such as beenliegh and eagleby etc?
 
KathyK said:
My family and I are living in my mothers 1011 sq IP in East Logan.

She plans on buying a bigger better house up here and putting a granny flat on it, so we can look after her.

She was going to renovate and rent out the house we are in now. She would have enough money left over to buy another IP as well(all cash).

I really like the block our house is on and think it would be wiser to do a knock down re build. The bother is mum is use to the council regulations in Sydney(inner city/eastern burbs) and thinks its the same up here. She isn't even considering the idea.

So my question is...Does anyone have a general idea about building restrictions? From what I gather Logan is pretty lax.


Feel free to ask any questions about East Logan. It dosnt get much attention here. A hint is to check out the school catchment zones. Most on the East side are enrolment managed and theres a reason why the ones that aren't are. It is actually a little forgotten pocket that no one knows about. We can live anywhere but I like it here for many reasons.
Click to expand...

Hi Kathy, the first thing to do would be check the interactive Logan map to see what zoning and precinct you are in to look at building possibilities/restrictions. For instance, if you are in a Low Density Residential (LDR), 'suburban' precinct which I suspect you are and your block is 1011m, then it's possible your block is eligible either to build an auxiliary unit (100m) - self-assessable (no need planning permit or town planning report) or eligible for subdivision.

http://www.loganinteractivemapping.com.au/

Once you've checked out your zoning,
you can then talk to a Logan Planner what's possible for your mom's block.
I am guessing when you mention 'East Logan', you're talking about suburbs east of the motorway like Rochedale South, Springwood, Daisy Hill, Shailer Park, Cornubia and Tanah Merah?
 
RetireRich101 said:
Jen,

here is my spreadsheet of analysis 1 title versus 2 title
i am on the assumption that:
  • The development + infra fees are about $40-45K for the 2 title.
  • You chose the dual frontage lot, so it doesn't lose so much value. I allowed $40k drop in value.
  • Based on comparable that the new dwelling sitting on a 450m2 can be sold for $340k in today's market (http://www.realestate.com.au/property-house-qld-marsden-118590231?listingType=buy)
  • The profit from the 2 title approach is $112K. I apply the same profit to 1 title approach.

Note:
  1. It is highly unlikely you can achieve $602K for the 1 title for both open market transaction or bank valuation purposes.
  2. There only a 0.5 drop in yield because of the initial high cost of 2 title build ( I am on the assumption that you may not strata title the end product to avoid extra ongoing expenses such council rate, and increasing land tax threshold etc)


Dual Occ - 2 Title
Property (P1) Cost $340,000

Property (P2) Cost:
Build $125,000
infra for 3 bed $28,000
dev cost $15,000
driveway $20,000

P2 cost $188,000
P1 + P2 Cost $528,000

End Product
P1 $300,000
P2 $340,000
P1 + P2 $640,000

Profit $112,000

P1 rent $380 $19,760 5.81%
P2 rent $380 $19,760
P1 + P2 rent $760 $39,520 7.48%



Dual Occ - 1 Title
Property (P1) Cost $340,000

Property (P2) Cost:
Build $125,000
infra fee for 3 bed $-
dev cost $5,000
driveway $20,000

Property (P2) cost $150,000
P1 + P2 Cost $490,000

End Product
P1 + P2 $602,000

Profit $112,000

P1 rent $380 $19,760 5.81%
P2 rent $380 $19,760
P1 + P2 rent $760 $39,520 8.07%
Click to expand...

Hi RetireRich101

Can you rent out the "auxiliary unit" to SEPARATE tenant with DUAL Occ on SINGLE title @ Logan area?

Thanks for clarification
 
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