Qld State Govt approves New Logan Planning Scheme. Start in May

[Holmes2012]

First time blogger and have just discovered these threads as a great source of knowledge. Im a young and green and have purchased a 994m2 corner block in the Logan area looking for best strategic plan to get best bang for buck and full fill its potential. Currently the high set home sits to the side of the block with the full corner block free to use with a minimum of at least 500m2 to play with without impeding on rental property that sits there now. Im aware that the new scheme has what was 900m2 corner block's moved to 1000m2 that can be sub divided. A town planner from LC advised me i would have 12 months from when new scheme is in place to make it easier for sub division to to be accepted. I was not wanting to do the project for a few years time but do have concerns if i leave it i may miss out? Surely being so close to new requirements this would get over the line but not sure if these things happen like that.
I have read with interest from RetireRich101 and Beanie Girl about trying to do a duel occ with another dwelling without putting on 2 titles so i save money on subdivisions and council rates. I understand a auxillery unit can only be up to 70m2 maybe 100m2 in my case but do i have scope to put a larger dwelling on this site without the extra costs?
I have a few of options if this is not the case
1.Subdivide ($60,000-$70,000)and sell land. Land Value $180,000
2.Subdivide and put on a 4bed 2 bath house $190,000+SD $70,000
Total $260,000 Rent $420
3.Subdivide and put on a duel key 3bed2bat/2bed1bath $260,000+Sd$70,000
Total $330,000 Rent $620
4.Granny flat $120,000est
Rent $290
5. Subdivide and relocatable home $60,000 +SD$70,000
Total $130,000 Rent $330

Would love to have some advice on what would work best for me. All suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I was also like some advice on if i was to subdivide if i should have a matter of urgency on this issue due to changes with scheme.

Many thanks

Imho all are reasonable possibilities. What works best for you is best known to you, based on your capital/funds, investment objectives etc. Ie do u want to sell, hold, etc.

Difficult for anyone to tell without knowing your goal. If you want to know how to maximise the utilisation of the space, then subdivide and put a granny each.

 

[YoungBull]

Thanks Holmes2012 for the reply. The goal is ideally to try and make some quick money in it say 2-5 years at the same time having something that is paying for itself or even better making money which could change my feelings on selling in the future. I know this can be hard when its come to investments with the hold factor in most cases more beneficial. Looking to reduce debt on primary house at home in Sydney which would help. The block was bought in Marsden recently.

 

[Beanie Girl]

plus basic 3 bedroom 1 bathroom 1 garage build cost about 125K

Probably too early to jump on this, but with the 70sqm dual key granny flat allowed - what would it roughly cost turnkey?

Is $100k a good figure to work with?
And rent - $270/week or is that too hopeful?

And would end value simply be current value + granny cost, or actually create equity (in your opinion that is)?

Hi Holmes, your calculations on granny flat sounds about right.
Above is virgo's due diligence on the cost to build a 3 bedder with garage ~125k
I know virgo has been inquiring on granny flats with a particular builder in the past and has got quotes. I know of the builder too and can pm you his details but I think virgo will have more information about that builder and other builders she has spoken to.. I only know that the builder builds granny flats in Logan, have no idea of the quality though....

The Black Duck has also built a 3 bedder in a dual occupancy scenario, you can perhaps ask him about his builder and whether he was good. If you search on his past posts, he has posted pictures of the new build and details about it.....

Regarding end value and equity, I guess it would depend on the demand for it.....the fact that the auxiliary unit can be rented out separately would be a big plus and not just limited to relatives...

It's my opinion that people who build auxiliary units will be focusing more on the cash flow rather than the end value

 

[Holmes2012]

It's my opinion that people who build auxiliary units will be focusing more on the cash flow rather than the end value

Kinda agree. It would be good to see some equity gain though, to help in duplication of the strategy, ie buy another one based on value gain!

Please PM me the granny builder's details. Good to think now about costing, plans, funds, negotiating with existing tenant, etc.

 

[Holmes2012]

Thanks Holmes2012 for the reply. The goal is ideally to try and make some quick money in it say 2-5 years at the same time having something that is paying for itself or even better making money which could change my feelings on selling in the future. I know this can be hard when its come to investments with the hold factor in most cases more beneficial. Looking to reduce debt on primary house at home in Sydney which would help. The block was bought in Marsden recently.

Paying for itself is a stronger possibility than a massive gain on sale for most Logan suburbs/properties. That's on a business-as-usual basis. Things could change though with development.

For one, no one knows how the market will play out in Logan now, there is still plentiful supply of 500sqm+ properties, and all properties now have granny flat potential! So hopefully agents now distinguish layout of existing dwellings, etc when marketing. ie which existing setting would suit granny development at least cost, eg blank canvass wall, etc to minimise costs.

I am a little surprised most agents haven't cared to familiarise themselves with the Scheme.

Some agents keeping in touch with me didn't even know the State govt had approved the logan scheme. I only found out from Beanie Girl's post (thanks!). So whilst I will thank them for the free coffee, would not be listing for sale with them!

 

[Beanie Girl]

Kinda agree. It would be good to see some equity gain though, to help in duplication of the strategy, ie buy another one based on value gain!

Please PM me the granny builder's details. Good to think now about costing, plans, funds, negotiating with existing tenant, etc.

Hi Holmes, have pm-ed you the Logan granny flat builder's details and website.

 

[Holmes2012]

Hi Holmes, have pm-ed you the Logan granny flat builder's details and website.

Thank you.

 

[YoungBull]

If i could have the builders details for that would be must appreciated Beanie Girl and The Black Duck. $125,000 seems good for a 3 Bedroom house. I was exploring the options of a relocatable granny flat which are a cheaper option but not sure how the overall product would compare to a granny flats builders product from a tenants view and resale view?

 

[RetireRich101]

First time blogger and have just discovered these threads as a great source of knowledge. Im a young and green and have purchased a 994m2 corner block in the Logan area looking for best strategic plan to get best bang for buck and full fill its potential. Currently the high set home sits to the side of the block with the full corner block free to use with a minimum of at least 500m2 to play with without impeding on rental property that sits there now. Im aware that the new scheme has what was 900m2 corner block's moved to 1000m2 that can be sub divided. A town planner from LC advised me i would have 12 months from when new scheme is in place to make it easier for sub division to to be accepted. I was not wanting to do the project for a few years time but do have concerns if i leave it i may miss out? Surely being so close to new requirements this would get over the line but not sure if these things happen like that.
I have read with interest from RetireRich101 and Beanie Girl about trying to do a duel occ with another dwelling without putting on 2 titles so i save money on subdivisions and council rates. I understand a auxillery unit can only be up to 70m2 maybe 100m2 in my case but do i have scope to put a larger dwelling on this site without the extra costs?
I have a few of options if this is not the case
1.Subdivide ($60,000-$70,000)and sell land. Land Value $180,000
2.Subdivide and put on a 4bed 2 bath house $190,000+SD $70,000
Total $260,000 Rent $420 (market value $360-$380,000)
3.Subdivide and put on a duel key 3bed2bat/2bed1bath $260,000+Sd$70,000
Total $330,000 Rent $620 (market value $440,000)
4.Granny flat $120,000est
Rent $290
5. Subdivide and relocatable home $60,000 +SD$70,000
Total $130,000 Rent $330

Would love to have some advice on what would work best for me. All suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I was also like some advice on if i was to subdivide if i should have a matter of urgency on this issue due to changes with scheme.

Many thanks

Welcome to the SS family.

It's great to see so many option you can have with your block. This is one reason why I chose property with a twist that will give me plenty of options and strategic play. If I purchased an apartment, I can only chose the yellow, white, blue, or purple colour for the wall..

Your 994m2 is rare as hens teeth in LCC, and I think you done a great DD in coming up with 5 options.

I would definitely think of subdivision now if you're only able to do in the old plan but not in new plan.
I would suggest you to engage LCC, asking if subdivision is possible under new plan for 994m2, without going through impact assessment. The information I got from is that impact assessment incur extra cost and time. How much time and cost, I dont really know.

It is really only 6m2 short, you should consider doing a survey now to see if he can find that 'extra' few m2

Option 6, depending on your exact location of existing dwelling ( you said it is shifted to one side). If option permits, why not build a annexed unit 70m2 directly behind the existing dwelling, but dont build into the 500m2 vacant land that you intend to subdivide.

This strategic play only works if you know LCC will allow you to subdivide in the new plan.

1. you can build annexed unit + existing dwelling on 1 title of 994m2
2. few years later, subdivide the vacant land.
3. build dual income home on vacant land or sell off land

 

[YoungBull]

Thankyou so much with your thoughts and advice RetireRich101. Being a first property investment i want to get it right so i can move onto other properties in the future as you could appreciate, so any thoughts and advice is well received. The new scheme comes in this coming Monday so i wont have sufficient time to lodge a survey and application. The application will then be a impact assessment case unless i could squeeze another 6m2 from a surveyor if this is possible? I dont have a understanding if its more costly for a impact assessment.
My feelings are to go with a duel key?duel occ design (3bed-2bath/2bed-1bath)on vacant block once sub divided. This is a long as i can get funding from the bank on the project. I estimate the subdivision (6-9 months) and build 4 months so would have to keep my head above water for about a year but on completion the pain would be worth the gain possibly and you would have 3 rental properties on one parcel of land.
I went from looking for a IP with a small relocatable granny flat scope to now purchasing something that will require more capital and stretching myself to full fill its potential. Hoping to make it work with the right option and may have to buy some nerves of steel while i'm at it...

 

[Beanie Girl]

Im a young and green and have purchased a 994m2 corner block in the Logan area looking for best strategic plan to get best bang for buck and full fill its potential. Currently the high set home sits to the side of the block with the full corner block free to use with a minimum of at least 500m2 to play with without impeding on rental property that sits there now. Im aware that the new scheme has what was 900m2 corner block's moved to 1000m2 that can be sub divided. A town planner from LC advised me i would have 12 months from when new scheme is in place to make it easier for sub division to to be accepted.

Hi YB, RR is right, first check with Logan Council if your corner block 994m (which is only 6m short of 1000m) is able to subdivided even under new plan. Get an official letter from Logan Council stating that subdivision for your block of 994m will be allowable under the new Logan plan.

If they say 'no subdivision' under new plan, then you may have up till 12 months (1 year) to apply to subdivide the block under the old Logan 2006 plan.

From Logan FAQ: -
Council may accept development applications to be assessed against the existing Logan, Beaudesert and Gold Coast planning schemes for one year after the adoption of the new planning scheme".

Under the old Logan 2006 scheme, a 900m block could have dual occupancy
Best bet is to get a letter from Logan Council that you have up till [specific date] to apply under Logan 2006 planning scheme for dual occupancy and subdivision for your block.

So explore these 2 options for subdivision with the Logan planners. Ask more than one Logan planner if you have to. Different planners may have different interpretations.

It will be a case-by-case basis. Yours is a unique block, 994m just shy of 1000m AND a corner block with 2 frontages. I am sure there are solutions for it.

Under new plan, corner blocks of 700m can have dual occupancy.
So even under new plan, your block of 994m can definitely have dual occupancy, the question is whether it can be subdivided.

 

[YoungBull]

Thanks Beanie Girl.. Much appreciated
On regards to duel occ, would that only be relevant if I knocked down the current standing house (which wouldn't be feasible now) and then construct a duel occ/ duplex after. My understanding was I can only build a auxilery unit to council specs without paying the extra costs for subdivision (1 title). Are you suggesting that it's possible to build another full size dwelling larger than (70m2/100m2)next to current house and be able to separately rent it out without having to do the subdivision? If this is the case then that would be a game changer....

 

[Beanie Girl]

Thanks Beanie Girl.. Much appreciated
On regards to duel occ, would that only be relevant if I knocked down the current standing house (which wouldn't be feasible now) and then construct a duel occ/ duplex after. My understanding was I can only build a auxilery unit to council specs without paying the extra costs for subdivision (1 title). Are you suggesting that it's possible to build another full size dwelling larger than (70m2/100m2)next to current house and be able to separately rent it out without having to do the subdivision? If this is the case then that would be a game changer....

YB, you definitely can build another full size dwelling larger than (70m2/100m2) next to the current house and be able to separately rent it out without having to do subdivision. A corner lot of 994m2 with 2 street frontages is eligible for dual occupancy under the new Logan scheme. The minimum size for corner block with 2 street frontages to be eligible for dual occupancy is 701m.

Pg 42 of Submissions and Response report
Reduced lot sizes for dual occupancies on corner lots were developed due to the minimal design impact from the street of this kind of development. A property with a dual road frontage would provide
a similar development opportunity.

The planning scheme has therefore been amended as requested to reduce the lot sizes for properties with two road frontages when developing Dual occupancies.

 

[YoungBull]

Thank Beanie Girl for info. Just to clarify on the Duel Occupancy...
RetireRich101 feel free to jump in or The Black Duck

1.Can i separately rent the new dwelling and existing dwelling?

2.What size dwelling could i build up to? eg 4bed 2bath 186m?

3. Extra cost i would occur other (connection fees, contribution costs ect..)

Sorry to be a pest but very excited to hear this news from you but waiting for the catch...

It would be interesting to know how much you would save duel occ rather than having to do the whole sub division then contsruction?

Many thanks

 

[Beanie Girl]

Hi YB, comments in blue below

Thank Beanie Girl for info. Just to clarify on the Duel Occupancy...
RetireRich101 feel free to jump in or The Black Duck

1.Can i separately rent the new dwelling and existing dwelling?
Yes, definitely can rent the new dwelling and existing dwelling to 2 different households

2.What size dwelling could i build up to? eg 4bed 2bath 186m?
If you are in a Low density residential zone, suburban precinct, maximum site coverage is 50% of land. Building can cover 50% of land. You have to find out from Council what your maximum gross floor area (GFA) is and can you do double storey etc. e.g. your Gross Floor could be 150m but could you do double storey, thus having 300m GFA altogether. But definitely check out your zone and precinct first to get the correct site coverage. I strongly suspect you are in the LDR zone, suburban precinct but you need to check.

3. Extra cost i would occur other (connection fees, contribution costs ect..)
This one you have to ask Council. Dual occ is not new in Logan. I don't think there are significant contribution fees but you have to check with Logan Council. Maybe The Black Duck can confirm.

Sorry to be a pest but very excited to hear this news from you but waiting for the catch...

It would be interesting to know how much you would save duel occ rather than having to do the whole sub division then contsruction?
All the pesky subdivision fees?

Many thanks

 

[RetireRich101]

I am loving this post.

YoungBull, I was thinking of the attached.

I am not exact sure of the subdivision cost to do reconfigure 1 into 2 lot. In your case it is reconfigure 1 x 994m2 into 2 x 494m2 ( assuming you're doing your feasibility with LCC to confirm if this is possible under new or old to cover your basis)

I would think about $30-40K for subdivision fee, to reconfigure 1 into 2 lot to be reasonable.

If you're proposing to do as attached diagram, I am led to believe you're up for only 1 set of infra fees about $30K, since aux unit do not incur infra fees.

This would be max best use of the property, with 4 separate income

You need to do the numbers to see if this works for you.
My earlier suggest to you was:
Stage 1: to build the Aux unit behind existing dwelling
Stage 2: subdivide and propose to build Main + aux on Title 2

just be careful if you're build an 120m2 aux unit on the 994m2 on the one title, there might a risk you can't do any subdivision or strata titling to create a separate title so you can sell one keep one .

just tossing ideas out there... I am getting crazy with this cold weather weekend coming up...

 

[RetireRich101]

The reconfigured lot in Title 1 is still a corner lot. The aux unit built on Title 1 will have separate driveway/entrance..privacy isn't compromised

The 70m2 floor space does not include garage. You can build attached 20-30m2 garage. You can move laundry room to garage and still have room for space for 'other' purposes.. A 3 bed/1 bath/1garage would be possible.

I would think its 'just' like a small separate house with its own separate entrance and would attract a $350/week rent.

 

[gach2]

aux units can only be 2 bedrooms
its under the definition of aux units

 

[YoungBull]

Thanks again so much Beanie Girl and RetireRich101 for your imput. Its providing great clarity and direction i need. I have attached a generic overhead photo to give you a idea of land parcel. You'll note that the highset home is set to the side facing the street side. The corner is the free usable area. The dimensions of total land are roughly 56.5 by 17.5m. There is colourbond fencing to left of existing house that intrudes over free land that can easily be reconfigured or moved.
I love your idea RetireRich101 but the way the highset is positioned and land configuration that you would be unable to build behind the highset in this case. But as you can see you do have a lot of free area to construct next existing house. The Subdivision costs (1 lot onto 2) is around the ($60,$70,000) the $28,000 council contribution costs are factored into that price. That gives us 2 best case options.

1. Subdivide and put a duel key home on free land. 3 bedroom 2 bathroom house with 2 bedroom 1 bathroom annexed unit attached. Total cost around $340,000 with subdivision, Rent $600 min..

2. Duel Occupancy (second dwelling) House. Build within subdivision regulations with the option to subdivide in the future. Unclear on costs involved to set up duel occ versus subdivision to give exact costings. You can build up to 50% of land available. BeanieGirl's idea amongst other great ones is to see if the GFA is lower level only and building 2 levels as to mach existing highset home with legal height applied to bottom dwelling for living space... I am only excitingly going off BeanieGirl's advice that Dueloccupany (second dwelling) is able to be applied here and separately rented out. Yet to check with LCC or Town planner.

You guys are a weath of information, keep it up...http://somersoft.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif
P.s Your right RetireRich101 terrible weather today in Sydney but good for this sort of stuff..ha

 

[RetireRich101]

how about attached revised plan?

Sorry i had to stalk your property details on rpdata, but your personal details will remain anonymous to SS member..

I am guessing there is about $15-20k difference in cost between Dual Occ and Subdivision ( that is not factoring the infra fees as it would be the same in both cases)
However your option 2, there is a risk that LCC may deny for the conversion as regulation may change. There is also the concern that there is additional cost for dual occ to subdivision.

You can opt to subdivide now, propose to build 120m2(main)/70m2(aux) in Title 2, and when you have more equity, say 2 years, you can build 70m2(aux) attached to existing dwelling in Title1. Then you will have 4 income streams... and you have the option to sell/keep Title1/2..

Your 56.5m x 17.5m corner lot is best lot you can get. It's basically a 56.5m frontage. Because all 4 dwellings have their own frontage and privacy, I would think the rent is maximized.