Queenslander relocation and residential subdivision

[brendio]

Digging on a Sunday arvo.

Sunday afternoon and hear a noise out the window and look out to see a four wheel drive with a trailer borer digging a hole in the yard. That's interesting, me thinks. Wander out and introduce myself. The draftsman had ordered a site classification for the new house site. The guy was drilling pretty close to the corner in what would still be the setback area. He drilled another couple and was gone after about 10 minutes. I asked him about the effect of old tree roots on a house site as there are a couple of big trees on the roadside boundary that we will be getting out. The root spread at least 15 m away. He advised because of the effect they have on the moisture content that is we are getting them out, it would be better to remove them sooner rather than later to allow more time for the site to stabilise.

 

[brendio]

I need to look into insurance

I went in to see our insurer and they have noted the respective rights and interests of the trust, so an extra insurance policy is not required. It was a lot easier than I was expected. They did say though that they do not cover subdivisions, so we will need to arrange alternative insurance before we start civil works.

The valuer came today to inspect the property, so hope to have the valuation by next week, so we can then sign the contract.

The engineer has sent us preliminary drawings of the sewer and stormwater plans. I have drafted letters to the neighbours about obtaining their consent to dig their yard up, cut downs their trees and place an easement on their land. I will try to contact them verbally first and then show or send them the letter. Just out of curiosity, how much compensation have people had to pay to obtain neighbours' consent to running services through their properties?

 

[brendio]

This week, I got a quote to get some trees removed from near the road in the corner the house will be moved to. $2100+GST for two Poinciana trees, a couple of triangle palms and various other small trees, plus grinding of the stumps. I've left a message on their voicemail for them to ring back to book a time to get it done.

Mum got preliminary plans of the house to give to the house relocator, who is coming around on Monday to help us with the forms to submit to council. The engineer also came and had a squizz under the roof to see what will need to be done about cyclone tie downs to bring the house under the current building code standard.

We got the scrap metal guy to come around and pick up an old fridge and washing machine and various other bits and pieces from under the house. There's still a bit of cleaning up there to be done before the truck comes.

I've been talking to a few local banks outlining our plans for the subdivision and asking for preliminary feedback on whether it is something they would fund and on what terms. They're all said they need a couple of days to get back to me after they make a few calls, but the most promising lead was from our local building society. They don't generally fund property developments, but because of the amount of equity we have, they may be able to fund it as a regular residential loan. He has to talk to his boss to see whether there would be issues with mortgage insurance and whether they can just do that in house. If so, it might work. Would be great if it works out because he said they don't need presales because they are "too complicated". For the other banks, I have been going through their business section.

I still have not sent off the letter to the neighbour. I was hoping to have a chat first, but the house is now appears to be vacant. A couple of weeks ago they took away a couple of skip loads of rubbish. Earlier this week, mum saw some people there and now there is ripped up carpet in their front yard, and mum said she saw a pest control guy there this afternoon. I knocked on the door, but noone there was no answer. There's no car there, and their bins are out. Bin day is not until Monday, so it really looks like noone's home. Mum and I are wondering whether they are getting it ready to sell, or just renovating to rent out again. I'm not sure whether to put in my letter that if they are thinking of selling to let us know. I'm trying to think whether it would have any extra development potential owning the extra property. Partly, just the ability to make a neighbouring house prettier would make the blocks of land we are selling more attractive.

 

[brendio]

The tree lopper called back this morning and I gave him the go ahead. He will ring a day or two before they are ready to come, probably next week. I later realised that we may need a couple more trees removed now rather than later to give the truck more room to manoeuvre moving the house. Will arrange an amended quote when he rings next.

Went with mum to speak to another lender. They took mum's financials and later rang back to say she was auto-approved for a LOC against her IP. That will allow her to onlend some funds to our trust to cover the expenses of moving the house.

The house relocater visited and answered some of our questions and filled in the form for council to work out what bond they will require. He left the contract for us to read and will call back in on Wednesday for us to sign it. Just need the structural engineer's report and footing plans from the draftsman and then we can submit the application to council. We are aiming for a move date of just before Christmas or just after New Year, if council get their act together. The house relocater can't move houses on the roads over the Christmas period, so it will time in well if it comes off.

I sent a letter by registered post to the next door neighbour requesting an easement to construct the sewer main across their block and then hand delivered another letter to the owner of the other affected property. This owner went to school with my father (and one of their sons went to school with my brother) and has verbally given us the go ahead. I need to find out what documentation we need at this stage. Only the corner of this property is affected, where there is currently a man hole. We may have been able to get away with no compensation, because the owners are known to the family, but we offered $500 as a gesture of goodwill. They will be happy about us having to remove the other neighbour's tree, because it has got into the sewer and has caused problems in one of the units. They also told us that they heard that the owner of the neighbour between our two properties will be in town this week. They have also been trying to get in touch about a tree close to their common boundary. They gave me details of the property manager it was leased out through, and said they thought the owners may be moving back in. I will try to contact the PM tomorrow to pass on my details to the owner, and might also leave a copy of the letter I sent in their letter box or under the door in case they don't get the registered mail copy because they are travelling.

 

[brendio]

Neighbours give okay!

This morning I rang the property manager of the property next door and also dropped another copy of the letter to them in their letter box. There was a guy there digging out a tree from their front yard. I made a couple of phone calls to council and DERM and emailed our engineer to find out what form we need for our neighbour's consent. Still waiting to hear back.

The neighbour then rang up to say she had received my letter and had no objection to our proposed works. (The tracking on the Australia Post website still show the status as "lodged by customer".) She didn't mind the palm trees going, but mentioned that they have an avocado tree in the corner that would be affected and would be sad to see go, but was nevertheless cooperative. I will look into costs for an established avocado tree as a replacement for them, or maybe see how well avocado trees transplant. The owner's are coming up on Saturday, so I might try to visit while they are there. They are looking to renovate and eventually move back in and pretty the place up, which is good, because the place had been let go a bit as a rental.

All up, it's a good result to have the neighbours on side, as it was part of the process I was worried about, especially after reading the "Profit from Property" thread. The amount we offered in compensation is only half of what we had allowed in our budget, despite the sewer affecting a larger area than we had first thought.

 

[goonandtell]

Thanks for the updates, quite interesting watching this go on. I am sure plenty of other people like me are lurking around reading this and enjoying it.

 

[brendio]

Contract for house removal signed!

Went in with mum to a bank about getting a loan against her IP for renovations of it, plus relocation and renovation of the Queenslander. She needs to organise some more documentation, get a rent appraisal done, even though it is rented privately, and decrease her credit card limits.

The house relocator came around again and we signed the contract and paid the deposit!

We now need to put an application in to council for preliminary approval. I am still a little confused as to what documentation is required. Mum still hasn't heard back from the draftsman with the full plans with elevations and engineer's report. We only have the floor plan and site layout, which is actually wrong, but the house relocator says that doesn't matter, he'll just drop the house where we peg it out. It all sounds a bit odd to me, as I'd have thought council would want to make sure we are complying with the relevant set backs. I will ring the certifier tomorrow and find out from him how the whole process works, because I'm a bit confused. I also need to get onto a plumber to find out if we can get away with hooking in to the existing sewerage without having to pay the council $1000 to come out and cap and then reconnect the sewer. The house relocation was supposed to be mum's little project, but somehow I have ended up with a lot of the jobs for it!

Still waiting on the valuation to come back so we can finalise the contract for sale to the trust.

Still waiting on council to get back to me about what form they want for the neighbour's consent. Will chase this up tomorrow when I drop in the forms for moving the house. The out of town owners of the neighbouring property will be in town on the weekend, so it would be a good time to get them to sign paperwork.

Still waiting for the engineer's report for the subdivision so the town planner can finalise the DA application.

Waiting to get the trees out, then need to arrange to get a bobcat in to scrap the grass from the new house site and spread some crackerdust.

Lots of waiting (and chasing people up) in this game.

 

[brendio]

at council

I submitted the forms to council this morning for moving the house ($600). The guy who assesses the security bond was not in, so I'm not sure if I had everything they need. The plumbing application worked out well. We can just alter the current sewerage that is in place so just need to pay an inspection fee ($160), and not disconnect and reconnect fees (ca. $1000). I asked about getting a new water supply and meter from the road that will become the new front, but we can't have more than one meter while it is still one big block, so we will use the existing connection for now and get a new one once the subdivision goes through and the old meter will be for one of the new blocks.

While I was in at council, I spoke to the Senior Development Engineer who our engineer has been liaising with for the DA about what form we need to have for our neighbours' consent for the new sewer main to run through their properties. He said there are two options to go for this.

1. Make us and the two adjoining properties part of the development application and obtain a separate consent. Once it is approved, the consent would then be connected with the land.

2. We are the only owner on the application. For provision of sewerage we provide two layouts, one going through the neighbours, and an alternative going around the footpath and connecting to the main in the next street (i.e. affecting only our land and council land, but a lot more civil works required).

Basically, council cannot apply conditions that place limitations on other properties not part of the application. In option 2, the alternative (but more expensive) sewering option gives council an out in the case that the neighbours later change their mind because council haven't approved an unworkable development requiring a complete resubmission. Obviously, we will make sure that we have a legal agreement with the neighbours so that this alternative is not required. I have already emailed our solicitor details of our agreement to get the legal documentation drawn up (well, I emailed his secretary, and he doesn't work Fridays or Mondays).

 

[brendio]

Getting the ducks lined up

Subdivision

We now have the engineer's report on the sewerage and stormwater drainage. The alternative option 2 would not work, so we are stuck with option 1, but our town planner disagrees with the council engineer that the neighbours need to be on the development application. The solicitor's secretary has drafted the legal agreements with the neighbours and they are waiting for the solicitor to read before she send us a copy for comment (likely tomorrow).

The valuation must be close to done. It's taking longer than expected, but we are getting mate's rates, so can't complain.

Once we have the val, we can sign the purchase contract with the trust.

Once we have the signed legal agreements, the town planner can lodge our DA!

House relocation

The drafter has been over again and should drop the final amended plans over on Friday, along with the structural engineer's report.

Had a plumber drop around. Gave an indication of cost (not a formal quote) of $10-12k for disconnection prior to relocation and then replumbing of services. This is a lot more than I was expecting!

 

[brendio]

Subdivision

Got another email today from the valuer apologising for the delay. He hopes to have it done early next week.

The solicitor has drafted the letters of consent. I had to get him to change a few things. Hand delivered one to the out-of-town neighbour who was in town yesterday, but will need his wife to sign and send back to me. Emailed the other owner, who is away at the moment but will be back tomorrow afternoon, so will go around tomorrow and get it signed.

We may get our DA lodged in time for it to sit on a council planner's desk over Christmas.

House relocation

Finally have the house plans and the engineer's plans for the footings, so will drop all that around to the certifier tomorrow morning. We have got the bond assessment back from council, and they will require security of $19,000 until we get the house signed off in the new location. It puts a big dent in cashflow that we don't have at the moment, so waiting for approval on mum's loan against her IP, or will have to borrow from one of my sisters.

Need to get a termite inspection and certificate to deliver to council before we can move.

Had two large Poinciana trees cut out. Watch an amusing video of the first day's progress here. We have a bobcat booked in to come on Monday to remove the trellis, scrape away the grass and mound some cracker dust over the new house site.

It's looking like we won't get approval in time to start moving before Christmas, so we'll likely run into the Christmas shutdown with getting plumbers and electricians out to do disconnection and the like. At least that gives us a bit more time for packing and sorting out.


Meanwhile, the invoices are rolling in. We've spent over $14k so far, and there are invoices on my desk for another $9k worth of stuff to be paid. And this is just the beginning.

 

[MichaelW]

pics or ban!

Make sure you post up photos. A lot of us are visual animals...

Great work, enjoy reading your progress.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[brendio]

Well, posting of updates has been delayed by a eye injury I sustained on Saturday. I was cutting some branches off the mango tree to allow mum to move her fifth wheeler (oversized caravan type thing) to allow for site preparation when I got some saw dust in my eye. I went inside to rinse it out, but I obviously hadn't got it all, because it was still annoying me. I went out to a movie as planned, but only really watched with one eye, and when I got back, I decided to go up to the after-hours clinic, where they washed my eye out and patched it up. On Sunday morning, it still felt like there was something in there scraping my eyelid, so I went back to the clinic and they told it was badly infected and starting to ulcerate. If left untreated, it could lead to loss of sight! So, I'm on eye drops every hour for three days including through the night. It's slightly better today, but quite sensitive to the light and my vision through the affected eye is very blurry.

So what of the development? Well, I took the plans to the certifier on Friday. He's not sure he'll have the building permit done before he goes on Christmas holidays on Wednesday and won't be back until mid-January.

I visited one lot of adjoining owner and got their signature consenting to the sewerage work on their property. Waiting for the other one in the mail.

The site preparation was to start today, but we had 53 mm of rain last night, so the bobcat didn't end up coming.

Michael, I will get pictures up in time. Mum has been taking some. I need to get them off her.

In the meantime, we have continued sorting and packing and selling off old furniture. Mum has made a website for some of the nicer items: http://antiquetreasures.yolasite.com/ Some people bought an old piano off us, and when they came to pick it up, the brother ended up buying about five other items, and then rang back to buy another for his mum. The mum rang back interested in something else, and then the lady who bought the piano has also bought something else. They have been very good customers.

 

[brendio]

Energy report - deck or solar required

I forgot to mention... The energy report we got back stated that to achieve the required 6 star energy rating we need to either add a deck of at least 12 sqm with operating fan, or install a 1kW photovoltaic system. We were going to add the deck in stage 2, but don't want to have it in the first stage so we can get our security bond back quicker, so we will probably install the solar cells. I'm getting mum to get quoted on 1 kW of cells with a 3kW inverter to see if we can get the minimum we need installed now and then add more cells later when cashflow allows.

 

[brendio]

Almost ready for submission

Yesterday we had a pest inspector come to give us certification that the house is free of termites, as required as one of the conditions of council giving us permission to relocate the house. The pest inspector thought it a stupid condition, as he said the termites would not survive once the connection of the house with the ground is broken, but he was happy to take our money to tell us what we already know. He sent through the report today by email, but the signature line is left blank. I have followed him up on that and I expect council may have issues with an unsigned document.

He was also interested in how much we planned to sell the blocks for, as he built a couple of spec homes on the estate over the road a few years back. I said the prices have not yet been decided, but I gave him a copy of the plan and my email address and took his card and will let him know once we are at the stage of having prices and able to enter into contracts.

The letter of consent from the other adjoining property owners arrived in the mail, and in the afternoon the valuation finally came back, so we finally have all the ducks lined up to submit our DA, just as everyone is knocking off for Christmas.

The valuation came in a little lower than we were hoping. He worked backwards from the gross realisation of the subdivided lots and worked from my feasibility numbers to come up with an as-is valuation. In his working, he subtracted around $50k for holding costs on the purchase price. However, the terms of our contract with our trust do not require payment until two years after settlement. I will check with my brother and with our solicitor whether they think we can add this amount on to the purchase price for the trust, since it will not be an expense for them. As you will recall, a higher price for the purchase of the land by the trust means more stamp duty but less income tax for us, so is preferable, but we need to be able to justify the price as being commercially reasonable.

 

[brendio]

Rain, rain and more rain!

I emptied 185 mm of rain out of the rain gauge from overnight. We've had 550 mm in December so far. Low-lying areas are flooding and it's predicted to get worse. Check out some photos from the local rag. I have also attached a couple of photos we took on a Sunday afternoon drive. The first shows a park. The water is now above the roof line of the shelter sheds. The second shows some prime waterfront property available for sale. (A new shopping centre was actually approved for here, but objections by one neighbour and the owners of the two major shopping centres in town dragged out the development in the courts long enough for the developer to go into receivership.)

I think now would be a good time to do some marketing for the high and dry blocks we will be releasing. If our land ever floods, the whole of Bundy will be gone.

The rain though will put back the schedule for getting the house moved.

 

[brendio]

More rain

The flood waters have receded from town (our place wasn't flooded). I was down at the beach this evening, watching a great lightning show. It was completely dry there. I drive back into town and the roads are wet and there are huge puddles everywhere.

We were supposed to be getting the bobcat in tomorrow morning to prepare the new house site, but it may now need to be postponed again ...

 

[brendio]

Contract signed - the ducks are in a line

Today, we signed the contract of sale of the property to our trust. We now have everything in place to submit the DA, I think. I rang our town planner to check they received the email I sent yesterday, and they confirmed that our case is again on their to-do list.

The bobcat didn't show up on Tuesday (and didn't ring either). Someone from the house relocaters came around today to see what stumps can be reused and measure up a bit.

We got more rain today, and more is expected.

 

[brendio]

Development application submitted!

I just got an email from our town planner to say they submitted our DA this morning. Now we sit and wait for council to do their thing.

I also just emptied 61.5 mm of rain from the gauge so we'll have to continue playing the waiting game on the house moving front until we get some dry weather.

 

[BuildingBlocks]

You haven't had a reply for a while, so just letting you know that someone is still reading and looking forward to updates.

Good luck with the progress

 

[Annietom]

hi fellow developer

hi brendio!

I loved reading over your thread. I was actually visiting this forum first time tonight for a few years. I was looking for someone who had to deal with neighbours over a drainage (or sewer) issues, just like yours - and I found your thread right first time!

wow - you have gone thru so much in a year with this development. I have just bought into my first PD near Ballarat, and have a blog about that development (www.mytowncottage.blogspot.com)

Mine is, however, a wee bit smaller than yours. Mine is a single block, which I'm subdividing into two. I have a situation where I need my neighbour to agree to a drain going over his land, with an easement (etc etc - you know what I'm talking about!!!) and only just mentioned it to him the other day. I must say, he is a darling, and he will probably say yes, but it is quite uncomfortable asking isn't it!. Hard to describe, I felt like I was taking advantage of him or something. Ironically, I also offered him an extra $500 for his trouble (I said for new plants!). I wonder what he will say.

My application hopefully goes into council this week. I saw the land surveyor last week, that's how I discovered this drainage issue. The other alternative for us is to fill the rear of the yard about 1mtr to allow drainage to fall the other way. I'm not keen on this option for a few reasons, but it is a last resort option I spose.

Anyways, pls follow my blog, as I will your thread, I can certainly sympathise with your "waiting game" as you put it! (and yes, so many don't return calls - how unprofessional!!!) It is a tad frustrating at times, and how annoying for you with the rain!!!

Also, I know you were surprised by the cost of the plumber, I can vouch for the practice of getting as many quotes as possible b4 you assume the first was a guide. Clearly diff tradies have diff quoting practices. The range on my trady quotes have been staggering, not to mention their appearance of desire for the work! It's been interesting, that's all I'll say!!!

(hope your eye is back to full force mate - sounded very painful!)

Excellent thread mate, I look forward to your next update!

Annie

(and btw, I'm ever so glad your neighbours agreed, it's given me some optimism with my guy!)