Rare Land Title

hi guys, iv been looking up rural land recently, and stumbled upon a rare land title for sale

the ad reads:

Extremely rare 1876 Victorian land title, which comes with its own 712sq mt’r parcel of land. The land actually has a bitumen run off which is currently (but rarely used these days), for a weigh station. This very unusual double sided title has been taken out of the frame in order to store better. It was explained (but not verified), that the actual title is a pig skin derivative as paper was a rare commodity in the early Victorian colony around this time. The land was earmarked for a school, but never proceeded with, as the new railway (at the time) was proposed to go nearby. As it is, this also abuts the property with its own crossing at the end of the road.


The main value of this sale is the unique and very rare title itself, however the 712sq mt’r parcel of land with its own highway runoff must be surely of some significant benefit to someone now or in the future. As this property has been sitting there for over 140 years, earmarked originally as a future school, then abandoned, it has had no usage requests for that period of time. It therefore currently does have some usage restrictions, so it would therefore, be the purchasers full responsibility to obtain any approvals to suit whatever may be required into the foreseeable future.



For the successful purchaser to proceed to actual ownership, it will be necessary to have their solicitors work with the vendors Solicitor to organise a correct and lawful change of ownership through the appropriate authorities. I do not expect with such a small price this will be a difficult exercise and the vendors solicitors will assist in every way possible.



It is anticipated that a 50% deposit be deposited with the vendors solicitor with the balance payable on settlement which should take no longer than one Month.


what do you think the actual title from 1876 is worth? i have no idea if it is of significant value or not

i have to do a little more research on the land itself, but it seems very cheap and seems like a great opportunity

what do you guys think? as i am new to property and not sure if this is a good deal or not

thanks in advance
 
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Interesting...

From the description, it sounds like the value is perceived to be in the title itself, and the land is a by-product of purchasing the title! So this, to me, is a collector's item and the value would be very difficult to ascertain as it would require specialist knowledge. (Try comparable sales on RPData for THAT one!)

It therefore currently does have some usage restrictions, so it would therefore, be the purchasers full responsibility to obtain any approvals to suit whatever may be required into the foreseeable future.

Without knowing the location, etc, this is the bit that would worry me. The land has restrictions, but they won't tell you what the restrictions are! "Go find out yourself!"

The land actually has a bitumen run off which is currently (but rarely used these days), for a weigh station.

Hmmm, which is it? Currently used as a weigh station but rarely? What does THAT mean? Would the RTA (or Vicroads, or whoever) require the weigh station to remain? That would certainly restrict the usage... :eek:

Keep us informed! ;)
 
yes, the title is what the guy is selling, the land is a bi-product, however i am interested in the land, not the title, although would be ok if it is valuable and rare, but i have no knowledge of old titles

i am emailing council to find out restriction to the site etc. so i will let you know once i find out

i am not sure about the weigh station, i think it is just next to the weigh station, the weigh station isnt actually on the land

as you can tell, i have to do more research on the land, but the asking price is $15,000

so i want to do my research because this could be a good deal, im jst not sure at the moment
 
A quick search shows the guy has already tried to sell this several times without success...he did provide title details in response to a question on one of the listings, perhaps you should use this to conduct your DD?

I'd say given the lack of interest thus far, there's no need to rush, do proper DD and make sure its 'worth it' - any iea what he paid originally?
 
You can probably talk him down in price too...he had a starting bid of only 10k most recently on 16.02.10

Let us know how you go...:)


One of his responses to what the restrictions are:
"The last time I checked there were restrictions, but building was not my intention when I purchased this “Rare Victorian Tile” that “just happened” to have a block of land attached, so it was NOT a priority. I am sure if one could build on this land easily, the cost would be significantly more and I would be selling the land that “just happened’ to have a Rare Victorian Tile. I think the rates are around $227.15,00 per annum."
 
how did you find all that out JoshyBoi?

no idea what he paid originally but he said he purchased in 1996

do you think the land would be valued at higher than the $10,000 - $15,000 mark? and if i purchsed i could borrow against the title to purchase an IP?

im still unsure of whether this is a good deal or not haha
 
Yeh gotta love google, helps with the DD

To be honest, it doesn't seem like a good investment, other then for the value of the title itself...

its 77km out of Melbourne in an area which is completely isolated, the land itself sits behind the weigh station and the highway runoff he talks about doesn't appear to provide direct road access to the land, yes there's the gate there at the back of the weigh station - but is it big enough to drive a car/truck?

If you are interested in the land you should drive out there and inspect, but google maps indicates there's absolutely nothing in or around it...what would you consaider building there??

Like he said, if he could build something there or getting planning authority to do it, it'd be worth a lot more...perhaps with growth and the expansion of our cities it might become more valuable in the future?
 
im not interested in building anything on there at the moment, im interested in having the land in my name to borrow against

i am new to property, so i would like peoples views on if this is a good idea or not

yes, it seems the land is of no development value, nothing can be put on it and it is miles away from anything, but, will having the title, be a significant advantage when trying to secure finance for the price of it?
 
im not interested in building anything on there at the moment, im interested in having the land in my name to borrow against

i am new to property, so i would like peoples views on if this is a good idea or not

yes, it seems the land is of no development value, nothing can be put on it and it is miles away from anything, but, will having the title, be a significant advantage when trying to secure finance for the price of it?

No disrespect, but the land is indeed "of no development value" why would any lending institution be willing to lend against it? (as opposed to you being willing to give it as security) If the word "development" was removed, is the statement still true?

BTW, I'm no expert (you say you're new, I'm not new, but I've still got a lot to learn) but to answer your question, I don't think this is a good idea, unless you would get a buzz out of the pigskin deed.
 
haha ok thanks wobby carly

i appreciate everyones input, maybe i just got excited when i saw this and tried to think of a way to make it good

after hearing you experienced investors think its not too good of thing i am now not as eager

but id still be interested to hear other peoples opinions on this

thanks again for the replies
 
Land cost money in rates every year,
Do you want to pay every year for the pleasure of hanging it on your wall,

I wouldn't,
 
If there is a potential to earn an income from it in some way, shape or form and that provides a good return on your $$$s then great.

Otherwise you're just paying rates and the money you borrowed to buy it isn't tax deductible because it's not earning you an income. That would make it a "pig" of a deal - ie no money gets regularly deposited into your bank account.
 
dragging out an old thread here...

this title and land is still available

does everyone still think it is a bad idea or anyone think it could be a good deal?

land is zoned farming, and is a very irregular shape of 7m x 350m approx. very close to railway tracks

thanks
 
FYI:
In my line of work (Bank Mortgage Documentation etc) I used to come across these old pigskin (and also Parchment) titles all the time.
The Transfers & Mortgages were noted on the reverse side so you could also 'trace' the ownership (& mortgages) back to when the title was created.

Since LTO Vic went to computerised titles (early/mid 1990's?) these old style Titles (pigskin, parchment and the newer paper ones) were automatically cancelled and the new computerised title was issued.

If you do purchase a property with one of these old style titles make sure you request the 'Cancelled' original from titles office when the transfer etc is lodged for registration
 
thanks for the info Marjac

do the pigskin titles sell as collector items? as that is what this guy has apparently bought it for
 
Sounds to me like it's still under the old law system. The vast majority (off the top of my head I think it's 98-99%) of titles in Victoria are now under the Torrens system. It's much more efficient, easier on solicitors and the government can guarantee what is on the current copy of title is true and correct.

If my suspicions of it being under the old law system are correct, then to be successfully transferred, each dealing with the property to date must be provided as well. If this "chain" of dealings is broken (eg. one missing) then historically this is deemed to be invalid. I doubt that in this day and age a slight mishap would have such large consequences. The Titles Office requires land to be changed to the Torrens system if it hasn't already to keep everything simple.

This is, of course if the land isn't part of a special survey. Some wealthy settlers bought allocated large parcels of land from the UK upon settling Victoria. These were in parcels of 8 sq. miles at a cost of 1 pound per acre. These parcels aren't quite under the Torrens system which is a very special case.

Anyway that's the history lesson for today. Would be worth doing some research on the property (have a look on land.vic.gov) and try to find out everything you can.

Cheers,
 
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