re:- Proposing to the person I want to marry

I don't get marriage these days.

women want equal access to education and work and wages........

they put a lot of men out of work doing so........

then they want rings and romance and restaurants in bulk......

if women want equal access to wages, then they need to accept equal access to the responsibility of providing for the household....

WW I think most of the responses are in response to the very general statements you made here whch implied that ALL women are unreasonable demanding creatures and you then dug yourself in further with further posts.

Personally I just don't get the "us versus them" argument that comes up in regards to men and women. Ok so you had a bad experience? Don't use that to generalise to the whole group. You have met women on somersoft who are very willing to step up to the plate but I don't see you taking that example and generalising that to the general population. Oh no that would be an exception to the rule right?

For those of us in partnership where we value each others contributions without keeping score cards, and celebrate and respect our differences this pointing and accusing just looks plain silly.
 
That's right. I did dump a boyfriend in the dark ages to go out with a tosser. I still KNEW he was a tosser though.

I suppose you have only ever dumped girlfriends to go out with better models :p
 
Winston, I think you have had a bad experience but don't let it get to you.

I don't.....I have female and male friends, and even some female friends who are the very stereotype I am digging at. They are nice enough but would drive me crazy to be married to them. They're just too girlie girl and contradictory for someone who values common sense and practicality as much as me......and they are not just the 4wd'ing Mums you see outside BBC, BBGS, St Margaret's, All Hallows, Nudgee College etc at 3pm


We are not all princesses, many of us can and do shovel gravel and get dirty.

Yeah my partner is one, though it is frustrating when she falls back into dizzy girlie girl mode from time to time.........

I actually only know one or two princesses. Most women I know are "normal". Many women work outside the house, and many husbands work in the house, plenty of women doing hard, hot work while hubby sits in the air-con, but women still do the lion's share of housework.

I don't know anyone who wants their hubby to bring them "shiny things". I think most women have moved on from that and can buy their own shiny things.


do you? read the thread from the beginning :)

I am happy to do most of the housework, because we have chosen that I don't go OUT to work, but there is plenty of work to do running a household of five, plenty of mum's taxi trips, and plenty of cooking, cleaning etc etc etc. Hubby does a little, but I don't expect him to share it equally. However, if I went to work, he would be doing much more, or we would get someone in to do more and we would both cover the cost.

And let me tell you that my husband often tells me that he could not, and would not, do what I do.
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I suppose you have only ever dumped girlfriends to go out with better models :p

Nah. The women I've dumped, I've dumped because I didn't want to date them anymore. I'm just kinda confused as to why you'd dump your bf to date a guy you knew was a Wayne Kerr.

But then women all though the ages have consistently ignored or left genuinely good blokes to date Wayne Kerrs, so it's not an uncommon occurence.

Mark
 
WW I think most of the responses are in response to the very general statements you made here whch implied that ALL women are unreasonable demanding creatures and you then dug yourself in further with further posts.


I could retort Goanna, why do you choose to interpret what I say as a gross generalization applicable to 100% of women. I made my first comment based on some of the stories conveyed earlier in the thread. I live breathe and eat in the real world. I know there are exceptions. I could go to the trouble of prefacing every statement I make with "some women" or a "portion of women".....but I presume most forumites are flexibly minded enough to get that.....and the ones who aren't, I don't care about....

Every post I made afterwards, I made it clear that I acknowledge not all women act the same. But your bias blinds you to seeing the qualifiers I included especially for your mindset. And you go on choosing to pigeon hole me exactly where you want me. Well, I can't help it if you have had so little life experience you only have a small number of pigeon holes to put people in.

What I'd suggest is that you accept there are sisters who let your side down, and cop it sweet that I have pointed it out....I am not interested in having to spell out things every time you and your rigid constructs choose to dumb down someone else's pov.

And to drive home how narrow minded you are being Goanna, I've said nothing to warrant you believing I have had a bad experience that I can't let go of.

Finally, the point I was trying to make, I'll make again. THere are women who want it both ways. who want the girlie girl gimmes.....and the $$$s......

Suck it up Goanna.....if you have a problem with the way SOME women are stereotyped, go tell it to the family court......


Personally I just don't get the "us versus them" argument that comes up in regards to men and women. Ok so you had a bad experience? Don't use that to generalise to the whole group. You have met women on somersoft who are very willing to step up to the plate but I don't see you taking that example and generalising that to the general population. Oh no that would be an exception to the rule right?

For those of us in partnership where we value each others contributions without keeping score cards, and celebrate and respect our differences this pointing and accusing just looks plain silly.
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Actually Mark, the reason I "dumped" my boyfriend was that the relationship had run's its course. I suppose going out with the tosser (who was gorgeous, by the way) was a bit like you fellows going out with a gorgeous big breasted bimbo (or whatever your secret fantasy girl happens to be). You know it is not the one you want to marry, but you just are temporarily blinded.

Much as I am enjoying this, I must away, and put on some shiny bling so I can go to the movies with some other money grabbing girlfriends, and spend up on hubby's credit card :p

And I am not even cooking my family dinner. Does that make me a bad wife and mother :). Do I care? Will they cook, no waaaay, it's takeaway or the highway.
 
WW

I'll keep my eyes open tomorrow for all the princesses when doing the grocery shopping in Toowong tomorrow ;).

I guess as long as both sides are happy it doesn't matter what floats your boat. If one side feels taken advantage of then you have a problem. Some people like the traditional arrangements and others mix it up a bit.

Cheers

kaf
 
Hi WW

I was responding to your words as they were written. I don't know you so I can't read anything between the lines.

Fair enough that you did later qualify some of the statements.

My point was that I reject the idea of "sides" or "pigeon holes". I just think it minimalises us all. Each side then comes up with examples from each side and it proves nothing in the end. I am not debating whether the people you encounter fit the stereotype you speak of. I take it at your word that these people exist. I guess I just find it hard to fathom why other people's beliefs / choices / expecttions etc rile others so much.

Why does it matter that some women expect diamond rings and to be taken out? I don't see how that refects on me as a woman. I won't be "defending" this choice as it has nothing to do with me and my choices.
 
all seems to be tied up with the anachronistic belief that if a man really loves a woman, he'll show it by spending lots of his hard earnt money on totally non utilitarian bright shiny things for her.

Not true. I believe men BELIEVE they need to do this, as well as buying gifts etc (courting) so that a female is attracted. Men, in general (read MOST), have got it wrong. It's not the females fault. I can go on and on but i won't, it will take me all night.
 
Good for you Kero!

My brother just proposed to his gf. He took her diving (spearfishing) for the first time to a coral cay off the coast from Cairns. Bought her all the right gear. There were a few sharks so she was quite worked up already. When they stopped on the sand for lunch he popped the question ( he bought a ring in advance, she had no idea). She said yes and loves the ring.
He was really nervous and emotional which made her even more blown away as he's not generally snag. He said the sharks were like a test and she handled it really well.

I told my husband very early on not to ever buy me a diamond anything or I would be really mad. I think they are a waste of money. To me it is just a shiny useless rock. I also don't wear gold. 12 years on he hasn't bought me jewellery at all, apart from a very modest antique saphire engagement ring. I do understand that many other women feel differently to me though.

Anyhow, this princess is off to mix render. My FIL is babysitting. How's that for stereotypical.

Louise
 
Not true. I believe men BELIEVE they need to do this, as well as buying gifts etc (courting) so that a female is attracted. Men, in general (read MOST), have got it wrong. It's not the females fault. I can go on and on but i won't, it will take me all night.

Hi Oscar,

That doesn't really make sense. Women in general are attracted to shiny things like jewelery, nice cars, expensive clothes and Platinum Amex's. Don't believe me? Go out and try to hook in wearing your casual clothes then go out wearing a designer suit and 'look' rich and see how different the reactions you get are.

Men believe they need to do it because they do need to do it. It's a competitive world out there and the guy with the appearance of having the most money wins. I was having a conversation related to this topic with a friend a few months ago and I said to him 'Money makes a man VERY attractive to women, regardless of what he looks like physically.'

Mark
 
nah kaf, women who feel it is their right for a guy to slave hard in a ditch digging holes (the sort of job women don't want) so she can feel special with rings, jewelry, flowers, honeymoons, courting at expensive restaurants, and fancy weddings (her Dad's money); and then expect him to be the main breadwinner servicing the mortgage, while she continues the indulgence by spending her regularly punctuated earnings on clothes, makeup, hair, pedicures, manicures, shoes etc, is not from this century.

all seems to be tied up with the anachronistic belief that if a man really loves a woman, he'll show it by spending lots of his hard earnt money on totally non utilitarian bright shiny things for her.

I know many of them through work and see them down at Toowong Village and Westfield Indooroopilly. And I know many first gen migrants who don't expect that stuff.

Funny how the family court doesn't see it your way either, goanna and kaf.

romace is an important part of any relationship. Ofcourse, only if you can afford it. Tbh, most guys are lazy asses when it comes to romance...they could easily make or plan something special like cook candlelight dinner or make a gift but probably about 99.9% of the time it's just easier for them to buy a gift or go to a restaurant!

Yes, I believe a man should be generous to his wife. For goodness sakes...what's the point of being too stingy? at least spend it on the people you love. I think being cautious with money is a good trait but you can't be stingy with your wife. Obviously there needs to be a good balance but it's all about making each other happy.

Again, men are so hypocritical....if you don't look after yourself then they find another woman or tell you not to let yourself go. Unfortunately, to keep looking good you need to use good shampoo, good haircut, good quality make up and cleansing products and regular facials. I think this is also a really important part of the relationship.

Now lastly, on the surface it looks like hubby is the breadwinner and the slave whilst I stay at home with Josh and go shopping all day long and I plan all our holidays and spend all of hubby's money. The truth is that I just prefer to work smart. Last year, I didn't work at all and still earned 3X the amount he did. So whilst I am at home, it doesn't mean I should freakin do all the house chores since I earn money too. So yeah, hubby helps out with 50% of the housework and works everyday which does make him look like a slave. But at least he doesn't have the financial pressure to provide for the family and also, this is his choice...he loves his job eventhough it's low pay and long hours and he's worth a lot more. He also gets up in the morn to look after our 2y.o son for an hr before he goe sto work so I can sleep in and takes over when he gets home i.e bath. play whilst I cook dinner....yes, sometimes he does complain and need his own time but he can have that after junior goes to sleep....why the hell should he be complaining abouts pending quality time with his own son...he should wnat to do that. I am really strict on this. Everything ha sto be 50/50 here... and the outcome is fab. Our son is well loved, confident and well behaved lil boy 90% of the time.


Don't get me into how little time men spend with their kids, how most of them expect no change after giving birth and think they should still be able to go to the pub on sat nights with their mates and expect their wife to earn a living, look after all the housework and the kids.

It's a fact that men are no where near involved with their kids (at a young age) than the wife.

There needs to be a right balance. To make a successful relationship, you need to understand each others needs and keep each other happy. I am down $50k in the share market and hubby knows how much stress I've been under. We were having lunch last week and there was golf store next door. I hate going into golf stores because I always feel pressured to buy something from hubby! he was there for bloody ages. Going on and on and on so I gave in and bought him a $400 Big Bertha Driver because i love him...a completely unneccessary buy. guess what? he hasn't even used yet and will probably use it less than 10X a year. After that, he tried to talk me into a Callaway set...he only went to the course twice last year. Don't they know their limits!! Money's tight atm, what have youd one to rleieve my stress and then to push me to my limit means you have no understanding at all. I blew up big time.

I love my husband to bits and happy to spend my lifetime with him but I think pls don't look for me in heaven...I need a break!
 
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