I am hoping someone can give me some advice regarding some difficult tenants. Sorry for the long post. A 12-month lease is in place. They are five months into it. The inspected the property and wanted to move in asap. They took the place as is, but since they have moved in, they have done nothing but complain about EVERYTHING, and the managing agent has given them what they wanted. They wanted to rip up the perfect carpet to install bamboo flooring for one of the children who has allergies (they have four and one on the way). I let them on the condition the carpet was re-layed when they left. There was one burner on the cooktop that was a bit sticky (was like that when they moved in); the other three elements worked perfectly. They badgered until the managing agent gave in to getting them a new cooktop installed. There was a loose tap, and a plumber was called four times to tighten it. The didn't like the colour on some walls, so I let them paint them. They wanted locks on windows; I paid for them. They wanted doors on cabinets where there had never been any; I paid for them. They wanted access to the property a week before tenancy began to lay their floor. I could have charged them rent, but didn't and I let them take possession early. They moved in and complained about marks on walls and dirty bathroom, even though it had been professionally cleaned prior to their tradesmen using the pppty for a week to install the flooring; I paid for cleaning of that. The hot water system broke on a Sunday they were there. On the same day an emergency replacement gas continuous flow Rheem was installed for $1700. Water temp sits at 50 degrees, but they are not happy as the old system had temperature control. They are now threatening to take me to court because they want temp control. They say they want 'like for like'. I cannot find any legislation that says I have to replace 'like for like'; only legislation that says that a lessor has to maintain the property as it was when the lease commenced, which I have done and more. There is a Braemar ducted heating system in the house. They are saying that they want it zoned (even though it wasn't zoned when they moved in) and that it doesn't heat properly, and now want a reduction of $160 pw week in rent otherwise they are taking me to court again. I paid $150 for an expert report on the heating. The report says that the heating system is one of the best on the market--high efficiency, and working well. The managing agent is a sweet young girl and now she simply tries to avoid the tenant. I have told her to give him the required 26 weeks notice to vacate, just because I am so stressed over the whole thing. I have never had such a terrible tenant. So far the outlays have exceeded by thousands of dollars any rent I have received. Has anyone had a similar experience and what did they do?
Really difficult tenants--any advice?
- Thread starter property_girl
- Start date
I would immediately take away any discretionary spending powers the PM has - mine has $300 of repairs that they can spend without consulting me - so if you have that get rid of it.
Basically I wouldn't give them a brass razoo unless it it actually required.
I think you have made a rod for your own back by agreeing to things you shouldn't have from the beginning and they are possible professional tenants who know the system and milking you dry.
Definitely get rid of them.
Basically I wouldn't give them a brass razoo unless it it actually required.
I think you have made a rod for your own back by agreeing to things you shouldn't have from the beginning and they are possible professional tenants who know the system and milking you dry.
Definitely get rid of them.
At the end of the day, the landlord makes the decisions, not the PM.
True, but a PM avoiding the tenant is not working in the capacity they are employed to do. Sounds like the PM is not manning up and enforcing the lease and is being walked all over. The PM works for the LL, not the tenant, and should be advising as such what the LL responsibilities are, and what the tenant may be liable for.
pinkboy
I have a similar situation though they've only just moved in. Gates knocked off hinges, must have a new oven/stove, locks on windows, curtains not good enough, garage door this, that, everything which never came up before. They have 4 boys! What have I done?
My PM is not bad but I do question why these issues weren't brought up at the inspection when the last tenant left.
am willing to outlay for a few things such as oven, locks, fence repairs. After that I'm going to get real stroppy with the agency - not PM - because they should've either taken it out of the previous bond or notified me after an inspection!
As it is, I'm going to go interstate to do an inspection if a few weeks. Will see the tenants face-to-face, I hope. I think that might make a difference.
I also rent and will tell them this. Their house is better maintained than mine is!
My PM is not bad but I do question why these issues weren't brought up at the inspection when the last tenant left.
am willing to outlay for a few things such as oven, locks, fence repairs. After that I'm going to get real stroppy with the agency - not PM - because they should've either taken it out of the previous bond or notified me after an inspection!
As it is, I'm going to go interstate to do an inspection if a few weeks. Will see the tenants face-to-face, I hope. I think that might make a difference.
I also rent and will tell them this. Their house is better maintained than mine is!
thanks
Thank you all for your responses. They are all valid. Yes, the PM was too soft at the beginning and didn't set the ground rules. But the horse has bolted and I have to think about how to deal with the problems as they are now. Pinkboy: you are right; the PM hasn't manned up. But she is young and, like many women, we don't like to make trouble and we like to keep people happy. I have complained to the owner of the agency saying she wasn't tough enough. The young PM is now just avoiding the tenant as she is pretty fearful of him (I am too). Westminster: at the moment the PM has a NIL amount for discretionary spending. DaveM: I have recently said no to a new heating system, and the tenants have hit the roof, threatening and saying the place was a pigsty when they moved in. They said this even though I have receipts for cleaning before they moved in for more than $1000. I have spoken to two other PMs, and they basically don't want to take it on now, saying that the current PM has to deal with it. When the tenants vacate, I will get a new PM--someone more experienced and tougher. Yes, ultimately it is the owner who makes the decisions. But the PM is at the coalface, should be familiar with tenancy legislation, and should be using that knowledge. I have been a landlady for more than 30 years and for the most part I have had good tenants. I let these tenants have what they wanted initially, to keep the peace and hoping that they would get what they wanted and then shut up, but that has not happened. In fact, they have got worse. As for the bond, they are actually clean, so I am hoping I can just give it all back to them and never see them again. Do people know whether a landlord has to replace 'like for like'? The tenant is saying that because the old hot water system had temperature control, the new one has to have one as well. He is saying I have to replace all the ducting because it is snaking and making the ducted heating less efficient. I thought the landlord has to look after the premises 'having regard to their condition at the commencement of the residential tenancy agreement'. Would the courts interpret that as meaning I would have to replace a temperature controlled hot water system with another temperature controlled hot water system. I didn't put in a cheap replacement system; it cost $1,700.
Thank you all for your responses. They are all valid. Yes, the PM was too soft at the beginning and didn't set the ground rules. But the horse has bolted and I have to think about how to deal with the problems as they are now. Pinkboy: you are right; the PM hasn't manned up. But she is young and, like many women, we don't like to make trouble and we like to keep people happy. I have complained to the owner of the agency saying she wasn't tough enough. The young PM is now just avoiding the tenant as she is pretty fearful of him (I am too). Westminster: at the moment the PM has a NIL amount for discretionary spending. DaveM: I have recently said no to a new heating system, and the tenants have hit the roof, threatening and saying the place was a pigsty when they moved in. They said this even though I have receipts for cleaning before they moved in for more than $1000. I have spoken to two other PMs, and they basically don't want to take it on now, saying that the current PM has to deal with it. When the tenants vacate, I will get a new PM--someone more experienced and tougher. Yes, ultimately it is the owner who makes the decisions. But the PM is at the coalface, should be familiar with tenancy legislation, and should be using that knowledge. I have been a landlady for more than 30 years and for the most part I have had good tenants. I let these tenants have what they wanted initially, to keep the peace and hoping that they would get what they wanted and then shut up, but that has not happened. In fact, they have got worse. As for the bond, they are actually clean, so I am hoping I can just give it all back to them and never see them again. Do people know whether a landlord has to replace 'like for like'? The tenant is saying that because the old hot water system had temperature control, the new one has to have one as well. He is saying I have to replace all the ducting because it is snaking and making the ducted heating less efficient. I thought the landlord has to look after the premises 'having regard to their condition at the commencement of the residential tenancy agreement'. Would the courts interpret that as meaning I would have to replace a temperature controlled hot water system with another temperature controlled hot water system. I didn't put in a cheap replacement system; it cost $1,700.
Agree with all of the above comments .They signed the lease as is .
apart from repairing breakages
The best property managers we've had are ones who only do that . Manage properties . We like the owner to be hands on in the business and not delegating the day to day work to juniors.
Eventually every one is likely to get a dud tenant .
Cliff
apart from repairing breakages
The best property managers we've had are ones who only do that . Manage properties . We like the owner to be hands on in the business and not delegating the day to day work to juniors.
Eventually every one is likely to get a dud tenant .
Cliff
I had a tenant who every month when they paid the rent also put forward a list of demands,it came across as i pay rent and we are entitled to what we want.I think most have come across these sort of tenants.In the end i gave the required notice to increase the rent to the maximum we could and they left,which was the intended result.
I'm pretty sure that you can't waive the 300 emergency clause
It's to protect the tenant and you
But yrs I hate it when the agent considers a leaking tap urgent at Sunday 10pm to get called out for 170 to only find out they hadn't tightened it properly
Bit hard to do that in the ACT - as far as I'm aware you cant raise the rent in the first 12 months, and you have to give 26 weeks notice to vacate, even at the end of the lease.
ie. if you want them out by the end of the 12 month lease, make sure you give notice now.
I would refuse to do anything other than necessary repairs from here on.
The only thing I believe you need to check is whether the temperature on the new system does need a tempering valve by law. If so, you'd best get that done. I do recall we had to have one added to our house in order for our plumber to get our plumbing passed several years ago.
If they take you to tribunal, I believe you have plenty of evidence to show the house was clean when they went in. I would get them out as soon as possible. If you are happy to release them now, you could put it to them that as they clearly are not happy you will release them without penalty. You could ask for two weeks' notice, but perhaps you will just be happy to see the back of them.
I've also been a landlady for well over 30 years (I'm 54) and we had a "princess" tenant a few years back who sounds very much like your tenant. We were so relieved when she bought her own house. Now she can spend, spend, spend on her own house.
They kept asking for things. Some things were beneficial for the house (security screens) so we paid for them, knowing they were adding value plus adding to the rentability. The stupid things they kept on asking every few months we simply refused (ie. they wanted us to pay to have the air-con motor turned around so it faced the other way. It was installed the way it was for good reason, and so we just kept on saying "NO". Didn't stop them from asking though.)
One tip (which I'm sure you will already know, and might be different in your state) is that you need to ensure you lodge a claim for the bond before they lodge a claim (if there is anything you need to claim for). If they claim it first, you have to fight to keep any. Make them fight you for it.
I would be concerned that they will rip out the bamboo floor and you will be left with a bad floor. I'm guessing your carpet was fully laid. Where have they put it? It is likely to be damaged once they (or you) try to have it relaid. Perhaps get them to agree (in writing) to leave the bamboo flooring so you at least have a "rentable" floor when they go.
Good luck. Grit your teeth as it could be a rough ride, but get your PM to act for YOU and not wimp out.
The only thing I believe you need to check is whether the temperature on the new system does need a tempering valve by law. If so, you'd best get that done. I do recall we had to have one added to our house in order for our plumber to get our plumbing passed several years ago.
If they take you to tribunal, I believe you have plenty of evidence to show the house was clean when they went in. I would get them out as soon as possible. If you are happy to release them now, you could put it to them that as they clearly are not happy you will release them without penalty. You could ask for two weeks' notice, but perhaps you will just be happy to see the back of them.
I've also been a landlady for well over 30 years (I'm 54) and we had a "princess" tenant a few years back who sounds very much like your tenant. We were so relieved when she bought her own house. Now she can spend, spend, spend on her own house.
They kept asking for things. Some things were beneficial for the house (security screens) so we paid for them, knowing they were adding value plus adding to the rentability. The stupid things they kept on asking every few months we simply refused (ie. they wanted us to pay to have the air-con motor turned around so it faced the other way. It was installed the way it was for good reason, and so we just kept on saying "NO". Didn't stop them from asking though.)
One tip (which I'm sure you will already know, and might be different in your state) is that you need to ensure you lodge a claim for the bond before they lodge a claim (if there is anything you need to claim for). If they claim it first, you have to fight to keep any. Make them fight you for it.
I would be concerned that they will rip out the bamboo floor and you will be left with a bad floor. I'm guessing your carpet was fully laid. Where have they put it? It is likely to be damaged once they (or you) try to have it relaid. Perhaps get them to agree (in writing) to leave the bamboo flooring so you at least have a "rentable" floor when they go.
Good luck. Grit your teeth as it could be a rough ride, but get your PM to act for YOU and not wimp out.
Their point has some validity, but I think it's stretching the definition of "like for like" (and Tribunals usually do adopt a "like for like" position).
Have the tenants given a particular reason for wanting temperature control? e.g. If they're claiming it's too hot and might burn one of their kids, I'd be concerned - just given the kind of people they seem to be - that they might sue. :/ If they haven't given any particular reason, or given a valid objection to the set temperature, then I think you can safely ignore their complaints.
I think if it went to Tribunal, and you were clearly in the wrong based on the overall situation, this might be another black mark against your name, if you know what I mean. They're possibly very marginally and technically in the right.
But given the overall situation and how reasonable you've been at agreeing with other requests, I think a Tribunal member would see the situation for what it is and tell them to get real.
As for a $160 pw rent reduction for not upgrading the heating... spare me!
I feel for you; you've got a really challenging tenant.
does landlord have to replace 'like for like'?
Nemo, you are right: I have to give 26 weeks notice, which I will do in a couple of weeks. Jim: my tenants are the same. It is almost as though they resent paying ANY rent and feel entitled to have their demands met. They think that they're pretty crash hot. The tenant wrote that he didn't have time to keep complaining because he had a company with 25 employees across three states. I found out that he has lodged a business name, whose registered address is my rental property, and that that is where his business is based. I told the PM to throw him out as he had breached the terms of the lease, which are that the premises are to be used for residential purposes only and if he operates a business he has to seek permission (which he hasn't done). The PM said that she would drive past in the mornings and see whether there were cars parked outside the house but said I shouldn't evict for that. TMNT: I know--a plumber four times called out to tighten a loose tap is ridiculous. We have now had to instruct any tradesman who goes to the property to NOT speak to the tenants. I kept finding bills from tradesmen with extra work done--work asked of them by the tenants. Wylie: it is a Rheem 24-hour continuous hot water system. It has a six-star energy rating and meets Aus standards. The ripping up of the carpet was conditional upon it being re-installed and cleaned. That was our verbal agreement. I hope they honour it. Thanks for the tip to lodge a claim the bond before they do--that is something I would not have thought of. But I have really had enough of them and, as I said, will be happy just to see the back of them. The house is in a very secluded area and is extremely quiet. The first day they moved in they complained about 'how busy a street it was'. I realised then that they would be difficult. Does anyone know whether a landlord has to replace 'like for like'?
Nemo, you are right: I have to give 26 weeks notice, which I will do in a couple of weeks. Jim: my tenants are the same. It is almost as though they resent paying ANY rent and feel entitled to have their demands met. They think that they're pretty crash hot. The tenant wrote that he didn't have time to keep complaining because he had a company with 25 employees across three states. I found out that he has lodged a business name, whose registered address is my rental property, and that that is where his business is based. I told the PM to throw him out as he had breached the terms of the lease, which are that the premises are to be used for residential purposes only and if he operates a business he has to seek permission (which he hasn't done). The PM said that she would drive past in the mornings and see whether there were cars parked outside the house but said I shouldn't evict for that. TMNT: I know--a plumber four times called out to tighten a loose tap is ridiculous. We have now had to instruct any tradesman who goes to the property to NOT speak to the tenants. I kept finding bills from tradesmen with extra work done--work asked of them by the tenants. Wylie: it is a Rheem 24-hour continuous hot water system. It has a six-star energy rating and meets Aus standards. The ripping up of the carpet was conditional upon it being re-installed and cleaned. That was our verbal agreement. I hope they honour it. Thanks for the tip to lodge a claim the bond before they do--that is something I would not have thought of. But I have really had enough of them and, as I said, will be happy just to see the back of them. The house is in a very secluded area and is extremely quiet. The first day they moved in they complained about 'how busy a street it was'. I realised then that they would be difficult. Does anyone know whether a landlord has to replace 'like for like'?
Perp: Yes, they now have five children, all young. They say that 50 degrees is dangerous with small children. Beachgurl: a mutual termination might be a good idea. First I will give them the 26 weeks notice.
Hi property girl,
I agree with westminster.
Also get a new PM and get rid of the tenants.
Cheers Spades.
I agree with westminster.
Also get a new PM and get rid of the tenants.
Cheers Spades.
Both you and your PM have been too soft from the begining.
Give an inch and they will take a mile.
I would say no to any unreasonable requests, and offer to allow them to break lease to get out if they are not happy.
And I would find anything I could (within the rules) to breach them to get them out.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I have had this type of tenant and they will not stop.
Give an inch and they will take a mile.
I would say no to any unreasonable requests, and offer to allow them to break lease to get out if they are not happy.
And I would find anything I could (within the rules) to breach them to get them out.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I have had this type of tenant and they will not stop.
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