Recalcitrant tenant

Hi Geoff.

Just curious.........with all this extra hassle........did the PM charge various additional fees to attend Tribs. etc or was it all inclusive of your normal % payment?

Good to hear it's getting resolved anyway.



:)
 
I don't get charged extra for tribunal hearings.

I bought the block from this agency, and along with a multiple discount, I am charged 5% + GST.

For a great PM, that's pretty good.
 
Hi there

This is probably an unusual reply, however, I just looked up Crohn's Disease. It might be worthwhile reading.
 
Update.

There's another unit in the block which became vacant, which I have been renovating (paint/floors- monor stuff). So I have been around the last few days.

The tenant had disappeared for two weeks. There was a story he had gone to hospital.

The warrant had been issued for eviction 27 Jan 04. But the warrant got lost in the post. It turned up about three days later- but the sheriff was not available until 3 Feb 04.

The tenant turned up, after an absence of two weeks, on Saturday 31 Jan 04- actually with a locksmith- though he was not needed.

He came to me to tell me how bad he had been, and still was. The hospital treatement had left him out of money, and he could not pay any more rent- but he promised to pay me back rent plus back rent at $400 per fortnight (this is after the tribunal had ordered him to pay a smaller amount per fortnight on four previous visits, and he could not do it).

I was almost convinced, though the fact that he promised to pay starting from the "next" pension date was suspect- the "previous" pension date was the day before, and he had already spent everything.

In the meantime, I found out from another tenant in the block that he had deliberately gone off his medication in an attempt to get sick, to go to hospital, and to gain sympathy.

There seemed to be no consideration to actually pay rent- now only about 10 weeks in arrears.

Due processes are proceeding.

This is a BIG downside to renovating- at least, where there are multiple dwellings. I pay a PM to deal with this, and it's a big downside to be at "cross purposes" with the PM.
 
Geoff, you are so incredibly nice !!!!!

I would been tempted to "send in the Tongans/Maories/other large Pacific Islanders" long before now.

Just remember, bad tenants are thieves eveyone, nothing less !

They are stealing a commodity we all have for sale...rental space and time.

We should no more tolerate this type of theft than we would tolerate the teenage burglar that breaks in to steal our TV set.

I have a non-paying tenant and he is being dealt with to the full extent of the law. I will implement some of the ideas in this thread to ensure success.

We have told the agent that the tenant must go and he will....we are bulldozing the house (the tenant doesn't know this) and building a new one because the current house is "bottom of the market" and this has happened to us before so we will build a new house and the rent will be at least $200 more per week to avoid the current tenant demographic.

Sometimes, its the only way.
 
Thanks Savannah.

Good luck with your tenant.

The sherrif came around today. The tenant was not in- he indicated that he would not be back- and was trying to get hospital accomodation as a "homeless person".

The place was a complete mess. Picture a mid 40's hoarder who is not terribly tidy. Him being a smoker did not add to the pleasantness of the aroma.

In his single bedroom, with a very large built in wardrobe & shelves, plus extra storage, he had another 3 sets of drawers, and lots of boxes and suitcases.

He had already removed, from accounts of people who had helped him, at least 20 boxes of stuff.

TV, hifi, CDs, food- almost anything of value to him was gone.

What was left was still a big pile of clothes, and a lot of other very junky stuff.

The family spent several hours packing that stuff up to put into storage. It was without doubt the worst job I have done related to IPs. The lack of cleanliness was pretty bad. The volume of stuff I've already had to move into storage was pretty big- there was a lot of carrying- and I;m still going. And I suspect in 30 days I will have to carry it out into a big skip.

But the intrusion into another person's very private stuff was worse. It was like I was violating someone's private space and thoughts.

It's really been a lose/lose situation.

With the benefit of hindsight, if I'd offered him $500 to leave two months ago, he may have jumped at the chance. (that is a tactic others have used successfully).
 
Thanks for keeping us current and also going into the detail you have with this one Geoff.

Hopefully this will dispel any false impressions from those just beginning to look at IP that it's all "beer and skittles."

While there are many things I love about IP's(the leverage, the growth, being able to drive past them, renovating etc) this is another good reminder that they can certainly take effort and may at times have problems too.

I just went through an eviction and while it was relatively simple compared to this one, it can be a long drawn out process with few winners..........and no matter how crook the tenant, I'm sure I'll never get any pleasure in evicting someone.

However, the reality is that this can be part of the business of investment property. Be prepared......and potential investors shouldn't let the first hill in the road deter them from what can be a beautiful growth vehicle.

About five years ago I had a friend who had a tenant break a door, leave some rubbish and skip without paying four weeks rent. It shocked them so much that they sold the property and have not touched IP's again.

What would a few weeks rent and a broken door really cost them after tax, insurance etc though? The answer is next to nothing. How much has that property gone up in five years though. :eek:

Similarly, I'm sure in five years time, Geoff's property will have increased in value significantly while this little 'disturbance' will be viewed as an insignificant problem of the past.



:)
 
Originally posted by Alan H
Similarly, I'm sure in five years time, Geoff's property will have increased in value significantly while this little 'disturbance' will be viewed as an insignificant problem of the past.
Never mind 5 years- I bought 18 months ago for $480K, valuation in November was $744K :D

It is a very good point you've raised Alan. It's been an interesting journey- some huge ups, and some little bumps.
 
Originally posted by Alan H
I just went through an eviction and while it was relatively simple compared to this one, it can be a long drawn out process with few winners..........and no matter how crook the tenant, I'm sure I'll never get any pleasure in evicting someone.

Hi Alan
I can intorduce you to a vendor/tenant that would change your mind for you :mad: Would like to see his face when his new business partner opens the invoice I will be sending him tomorrow :D

bundy
 
Originally posted by geoffw

The family spent several hours packing that stuff up to put into storage. It was without doubt the worst job I have done related to IPs. The lack of cleanliness was pretty bad. The volume of stuff I've already had to move into storage was pretty big- there was a lot of carrying- and I;m still going. And I suspect in 30 days I will have to carry it out into a big skip.

Arghh!!! GeoffW

You just reminded me of the 27 green garbage bags of rubbish and junk I pulled out of a 1br appartment after a tenant in Kings Cross "vacated". I didn't need that memory.

The bed he left behind couldn't stand on the floor because it was held up by the horded piles of stuff under it.

His ex-girlfriend was an IV drug user. So we had needles. shudder

I had told the tenant to just move out and I'd call it quits. Now I'm insured and would get it professionally cleaned.

Regards

Paulzag
Dreamspinner
(not really back - still living under a rock)
 
Nice to see you pop out from under the rock Paul.

At least my tenant was only extremely dirty- not an illicit drug user.

The "before" of this unit will make the "after" such a huge contrast- but I could not have taken a picture in the state it was in.

I've been into Soweto, and seen the way people live in there- living in shacks from scrounged pieces of metal, sharing one toilet between 100 houses (and that was a recent improvement)- but the people had pride in their own houses, and the places were clean (as far as you can keep a dirt floor clean)
 
The unit is almost completely renovated now.

I've been spending the last 2 1/2 weeks on the unit- 40 hours pw at work, then 30 hours pw at the unit. So I haven't contributed much to the forum over the forum (except but not posting perhaps :D )

It's been a huge job- twenty hours to move stuff out of a unit is not in my usual experience.

And five hours to clean a stove is not usual either. Though it is very satisfying to see the immense change from filthy to clean. (I had considered throwing it out and getting a new stove).

But the difference in the unit is immense. It's gone from the worst unit in the block to the best (the only one to be completely repainted; and the only one with new carpet).

I had two of the units vacant in the last two weeks; the "rat's nest" was on display for the first time yesterday, along with another where the tenant is breaking a lease.

The ones vacant earlier have gone- one has tenants already (O/S masters student on a government scholarship), and one will be tenanted Monday (the last day of the previous tenants lease).

The rat's nest went immediately- now fully furnished, the new tenant will be starting on Monday- the day after final reno has been completed.

The other vacant one has two tenants competing- both check out fine.The one with the earliest move in date will win.

So it seems lower priced fully furnished 1BR Canberra region properties have a good demand. It's proved to be a very good niche- one which my current PM suggested, and one which has increased my income from the block by $10K+ pa.

Thank you Kerri!
 
New to IPs

This subject has been a great read and I've stored away some of the ideas should I ever have the misfortune of needing to deal with a bad tennant. A question I'd like to put to readers of this thread is - What sort of ideas do you have of things that can be done to 'reward' a good tennant, to keep them good and as a way of saying 'thanks for being a good tennant'. EG: installing room aircon for them, giving them a voucher at Coles/Woolies etc.?
 
chupachup said:
This subject has been a great read and I've stored away some of the ideas should I ever have the misfortune of needing to deal with a bad tennant. A question I'd like to put to readers of this thread is - What sort of ideas do you have of things that can be done to 'reward' a good tennant, to keep them good and as a way of saying 'thanks for being a good tennant'. EG: installing room aircon for them, giving them a voucher at Coles/Woolies etc.?
After this experience, I've told the PM that any tenant who pays on time every time gets a week's free rent at Christmas. I'll see if that makes any difference.
 
geoffw said:
After this experience, I've told the PM that any tenant who pays on time every time gets a week's free rent at Christmas. I'll see if that makes any difference.

Geoff, May be a better idea to value add to their tenancy, as Chup suggested, that way, not only can you depreciate the (eg:) aircon, but you can ask more if they move out!

asy :D
 
Spent enough time as a property manager to last a lifetime. Several options are available in NSW to remove bad tenants. Paperwork must be deadly accurate. Mercy available only for one broken promise, after that there can be none. Option one is Tribunal requesting all known orders, to pay, evict, possession etc. and enforce each one asap. Option 2 (gives you time to arrange option 1) arrange appointment with local office of dept of housing for tenant to attend interview, purpose is to request assistance to pay rent to save the tenancy - DOH have criteria allowing them to pay up to 6 weeks rent provided the landlord provides a letter confirming that the tenancy would survive this particular current crisis, and that there is no other rent outstanding.DOH pays the cheque directly to the landlord/agent.immediately the rent is up to date, take out landlord insurance.
Usually the next battle will be soon after in the tribunal. Also suggest you become subscriber to TICA and use it. Tenants have begged me as a PM to accept back rent for a 3 yewar old skip 2 property owners ago just to remove their bad listing from TICA, currently costs about $150 per year, best way to have a good tenant is to vet them. Good luck.
geoffw said:
He was due to have vacated by 5PM today.

PM went over- and found that he had booked himself into hospital- probably partially as a place to stay, partially to avoid getting shifted out, and partially to gain sympathy.

No further rent has been paid, and no more contact has been made with the agent.

As of 5PM, the PM was able to apply for a warrant. This will take 3-4 working days, when the warrant is being served, (about $110), locks changed ($110), furniture moved and stored (cost unknown). I may be able to store it in a storeroom on the premises, but I'm not sure.
 
crest133 said:
Option 2 (gives you time to arrange option 1) arrange appointment with local office of dept of housing for tenant to attend interview, purpose is to request assistance to pay rent to save the tenancy - DOH have criteria allowing them to pay up to 6 weeks rent provided the landlord provides a letter confirming that the tenancy would survive this particular current crisis, and that there is no other rent outstanding.
Thanks Crest133.

I actually had not mentioned that previously. The PM had previously had him bailed out with the DOH option early last year. But instead of using the opportunity to catch up on rent, he got further behind- he had perhaps become used to not paying rent.
 
Sorry you're having drama with a sick person, they increase the stress. However, I always take photos of abandoned goods, and the Tribunal dictates that if the cost of handling, transportation, storage and disposal of the goods exceeds their value, then you are allowed to take the option of dumping the lot at the tip.Fair enough too. However, because a few professional tenants have abused the system, it's vital to take photos to avoid the possibility they will later initiate a tribunal hearing to claim back their treasure4s which were all designer clothes and antique furniture.
good luck
geoffw said:
Thanks Crest133.

I actually had not mentioned that previously. The PM had previously had him bailed out with the DOH option early last year. But instead of using the opportunity to catch up on rent, he got further behind- he had perhaps become used to not paying rent.
 
Back
Top