Removal of Wall

[Glenn2]

Just wondering if anyone can help me........


Have purchased an IP and need to demolish an internal wall. Do I need to get a draughtsperson to draw up a plan (i.e. to take into account load bearing walls) or can a normal builder perform all of this work.

I suppose I just want to make sure that the work is guaranteed and I have the right person for the job.


Glenn2.

 

[Glenn]

Hi Glenn2,

Welcome to the forum.

If it is indeed a load bearing wall, you may need a Stuctural Engineer's Drawings...this can be checked with your local council.

Glenn

 

[Glenn2]

Can builder's put together an Engineer's Drawing?


Glenn2.

 

[Glenn]

Hi Glenn2,

Builders generally have Strucural Engineers that they use on a regular basis as they are happy with their costs and are comfortable building the designs they receive. Your builder may be able to engage an engineer for you...but please ask for approximate costs before doing so...they don't come cheap.

Glenn

 

[darryl]

If it is an internal wall there is a good chance it is not load bearing. Your builder should be able to tell. If it is not load bearing an engineer is not required saving lots $$$$.

 

[brains]

Glenn2

If you want to do it yourself, its not too hard and will save you heaps of bucks, even if it load bearing, ive done it and it worked out fine. A carpenter mate showed me and checked it afterward.

What you do is install one or two very large beams (about 75mm x 350mm) in the roof space across the area where you are taking out the wall, these are installed on their side (standing on the 75mm side) and are to be long enough to reach between the top of two walls on the outside of the wall you are taking out.

Then you use metal hangers that nail between the large beam you have just installed and every ceiling joist that it crosses, preferably on both sides of the joist for extra support .

Its a bit hard to explain but the concept is the beams are supported by the two outside walls with the ceiling joists hanging off it by metal brackets (its called a hanging beam) the whole length of the beam.

Where the ceiling joists used to be supported by the wall you are taking out the are now "hanging" off the beam which is supported by 2 other walls.

My carpenter mate suggested i bolt a couple of 50 x 100 struts between the beam and the roof trusses above it in a couple of places due to the length of the beam.

I have to say tho that this is ok for a minor job , say a standard 3 bedder single story house with a pitched roof. I opened up the lounge/dining by taking out the dividing wall and hung the beams between one outside wall of the dining room and the outside wall of the lounge.

You dont have to run the beams exactly square to the room, just as long as they are sitting on a wall at each end.

The original rooms were approx 3 x 3 and 3 x 3 metres, creating one room of about 6 x 3 metres.

Anything more complex will need a builder/engineer.

ps; After the wall was taken out and it was gyprocked and plastered/painted i expected to see cracks appear but didnt see one in the 5 years i was living there.

 

[gecho1]

Hi Glenn,
just want to add to Brains suggestion.
I have removed countless number of load bearing walls in this same manner (I'm a builder). The only thing Brains forgot to mention was to be sure that where the beam lies on the top plate (this is the horizantal piece of timber on top of all walls) you install a double stud, just nail two studs together. This will provide extra strength.
You also need to half notch the toms which are the vertical pieces of hardwood attatched to the roof, and slide your beam into the half notch and attatch with bolts. If you do all of this before removing the walls you won't need accro props.

by the way, i recently removed 3 load bearing walls in my cousins house to open up the lounge and dining room, using the same method. Two weeks later we had a pretty severe storm with very high winds. When i rang my cousin the next day to see how the roof was he told me that it was the only part of the house that didn't make a noise.

anyway goodluck

 

[Jas]

first thing you should do is find out if its a load bearing wall.

The builder can tell you, but you might be able to tell yourself.

Stick you head in the roof. Is it a truss roof (rows of triangles across the roof), or a pitch roof (much less cluttered, with pieces of wood.

here's a picutre of a truss. There'll be lots of these inside the roof, not just one or two.

If it's truss, none of the wall are load bearing. If it's a pitch, where the wood that comes down from the roof meets the top of a wall, that wall is load bearing. As you look through the roof, you'll see all the pieces of wood line up on one, two, or three walls. Most likely (but not always), this will be a central wall - like one side of a central hallway.

Hope I've explained it cleary enough. when you get the builder in, ask him to point things out to you in the roof.

Jas

 

[alpina]

is council approval required to remove these walls? and if so, is it required for both load bearing and non-load bearing walls?

thanks,

julie

 

[Aceyducey]

is council approval required to remove these walls? and if so, is it required for both load bearing and non-load bearing walls?

Alpina, as a general rule council approval is only required for external walls and other things that affect the external appearance & dimensions of the building (including windows, but not skylights). However check with your council for specifics.

There are also certain ventilation requirements in the building codes for different sized rooms - so keep an eye on this, particularly if you're partitioning a bathroom to create a separate toilet or the like. We created an internal ensuite in our current house & had to ensure it had sufficient ventilation or be in breach.

There are also requirements for plumbing & electricals when these are involved in your internal work.

For straight removal of internal walls you do not require approvals. However for load-bearing walls you should use a qualified builder as all kinds of bracing is required for safety. The council will have something to say if you don't

For non-load bearing walls - go for it - so long as you are certain it's not load-bearing!

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[Tools]

Internal walls may be taking loads from the ceiling or roof,or both.It will be obvious from inspecting inside the roof if there are timber joists or props bearing on the wall.The wall may have also had additional stumps placed under it to take the load it may be taking.So simply installing a hanging or cottage beam may not be all that is required,depending on the load being supported.It could mean that additional studs or stumps,or further fixing details MAY be required.


What you should also be conscious of is that the wall you remove may be an integral part of the bracing of the building.If you had a long wall facing say west,and only have one internal wall perpendicular to that wall,consider the wind load on that long wall when the bracing wall has been removed.You should have a building permit for this work,and this will require input from a structural engineer.

Tools

 

[jgray1982]

Guys,

I think you should ease up with the advice and if the wall is loadbearing, you will require a building permit. So dont attempt any work until that time, i would also suggest obtaining some 'face to face' advice in leui of the advice received via this forum.

Some of the advice may be correct but each situation is unique and there are many variables. As many have suggested, is could be supporting roof laods, hanging beams, ceiling joists, combined hanging-strutting beams, props, etc.

The best advice i could give you was to hold up and contact an expert. This advice is not in place to scare you. I working in the industry and issue building permits and conduct building inspections everyday and you would be suprised at the things we see from the 'do it yourself' home owner/builder.

Ease up and call and obtain for professional advice.

 

[willair]

Glenn 2,
imho,
you may be lucky and find once you have a look in roof area above the walls
and line everything up ,that this may be a simple job,depending on the span
maybe a hanging beam, is this a two story building or single
what i do is simple if the above wall areas are not load bearing
then just use a lintel supported by a secondary jamb stud
bolted to the top plate and wall studs,you will have to empoly someone
to work the design strength and your rafter/truss tie down details
any builder will be able to work this out for you..
good luck
willair.

 

[thebuildingsurv]

The hoff is right you will most certainly need a building permit. The first step is to get up in the roof. Apart from props etc, as tools says they wall may also be a bracing wall. Your builder should be able to prepare plans for you depending on the span of the opening you wish to create. You could also just get a chainsaw and cut a hole in the wall and see what happens.