"RENOVATION - the good, the bad and the ugly! "



From: Colin Mills

The good is where you do no work, the bad is where you do too much work and the ugly is where you lose money. As somebody who has been there and done that I was intrigued to hear a friend of mine telling me about a seminar he attended recently. You know the ones - they advertise in the Sunday rags and reckon anyone can make a squillion virtually overnight (mind you this is all done in your spare time!!!)Anyway the seminar speaker touched on renovating property as one of the ways to make your squillions.
Hmmmmmm....... Heres my two cents worth on renovating.
1/ Your local council. Last reno I did took 9 months to get council approval. My guess is your local council is just as useless and lazy as mine. Sure the nice lady or gentleman in the council call centre will tell you it only takes 30 or 90 days to get approval but try multiplying that by 3 or 4 to get an accurate time frame. Throw in the hassles from the neighbours and you will discover that the process can be a real pain in the you know where. The idea that you can make "quick" money from renovating is preposterous. Your local council will ensure that never, ever happens.
2/ Tax. Buy, reno and sell (other than your home)more than a couple of times and the ATO will treat it as a business. Paying marginal tax on any gains makes it a very iffy proposition.
3/ The competition. Yes there are people (tradesmen who know what they are doing)who do this for a living. They know about all the good deals long before they are advertised to the general public. Anything you see advertised has already been rejected by the pros. If this doesn't make you think twice nothing will.
4/ You will get ripped!!! I really hate saying this but the average tradesman who sniffs out that his boss is a white collar, 9 to 5 guy totally out of his depth will ........ do I really have to state the obvious?
Sure there is money to be made from renos. If you have a trades background and can do some or preferably all of the work yourself or at the very minimum have contacts in the building game who won't rip you off then you stand a good chance of making a profit if you initially buy well. The idea that somebody with no experience or contacts in the building game can come along and make some fast easy money is totally unrealistic. The people who run the above seminars have a lot to answer for.
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Reply: 1
From: Adam Randall

I'm sorry but I have to say I think this post is the most negative crap I have read on here in about 5 months.
Number 1, you say your average 9 to 5 white collar worker will be seen a mile off as a complete sucker. Well what type of person generally organizes tradesmen in the first place, that's right its your average white collar worker. The fact of the matter is technical knowledge has absolutely stuff all to do with weather you will be a successful organizer/reader of people or not. You hire a plumber, for plumbing, electrician for electrical etc, if you understood it yourself you wouldn't need a tradesman.
Most people can sniff out a shonky trades person a mile away. Example I had a plumber replace a valve at one of my properties, then it went again within 1 day, then again the next day, then again the day after that, after the 3rd valve he decided to check the pressure coming in on the mains, and found it was around twice the normal pressure. He tried to charge me for 3 valves and the time he spent, I told him to bash out his backside, and that I will not pay for 2 valves and the time he spent on those valves, that was 5 months ago and I have not heard from him.
The moral of this is I know nothing about plumbing, however a smart 3 year old would tell you after the second valve check the pressure, so you need not be technically oriented to know your being ripped off.
Also have a look at some of the profiles of the people that post on this web site, you will find that there are alot of people who know exactly what they are talking about, and have the experience, qualifications (and bank balance I'm sure) to back up all of their claims.
Regards adam
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Reply: 2
From: Redd Anaconda

well said Mr Croft
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Renovations...there is a better way

Reply: 3
From: G D

I am a converted renovator using the paul Eslick method..
I had made all the mistakes you have made and came to the same conclusion...

There is no money in it...???

I was wrong ...there are huge profits if you do it right...

Using Pauls methods I have made over $200k in the last few years and I have kicked my rents up by 25+% in 3 weeks.

I have made 50% capital gain in 4 weeks...

I can get 10%+ rental returns

My last building approval took 5 days!!! not 9 months...

Your first one will be your worst one...

Can you remember your first attempt at ....anything... can you do it better...yes and you will... but maybe you just need a bit of guidance before hand.

We are investors telling other investors
...no club ...no developers...ask TW!

we have done a number of Renovation workshops in Brisbane ...yes... now due to a massive number of requests we have a date for Sydney and now Melbourne too.

If you want detail call 07 32632 1944 9am-5pm
fax 07 3262 4054...or email [email protected]

or web
Geoff Doidge
"capital gain is easy and property is fun"

On 4/23/01 4:41:00 PM, Michael Croft wrote:
>Hi Colin,
>Welcome aboard.
>1. 9 months in planning and
>you didn't allow for it?
>Firstly, if it requires
>approval it ain't a simple
>reno. Secondly, you didn't do
>your home work if you got
>stuck in council for that long
>and didn't allow for it.
>Thirdly, I've made good money
>out of renos and it ain't
>rocket science, tradesperson
>or not.
>2. Why is everybody so
>fixated on tax? If you have a
>tax bill you made money,
>right? Sure we all have a
>legal right to minimise our
>tax and most of us do. Put
>your structures in place and
>you will pay little tax (no
>matter what sort of
>investment(s) you make).
>3. Guess what?? I'm the
>competition! Well at least
>in my area I am. Do other
>'non professionals' get better
>deals than me? Sure they do.
>Are there many of me out
>there? No not really. May I
>respectfully suggest you have
>'scarcity mentality', there
>are plenty of opportunities
>'out there' and renos are only
>one of em. Do I as a
>professional stuff up? Yes
>all the time. Do I allow for
>said stuff ups? Yes,
>absolutely (well most of the
>4. I am sorry you have such a
>jaundiced view of us
>'professionals'. You must
>have been 'ripped' badly. As
>a 'professional' have I been
>ripped? Yes many times. I
>now have simple procedures in
>place to insure I am not. As
>a 'professional' do I rip
>people off? NO, I am an old
>socialist, I pay a lot of tax
>(minimised) and I make a fair
>profit by taking risks and
>identify opportunities.
>5. I apologise if I being
>patronising but there is money
>to be made in renos but not if
>one goes off half cocked or
>are "totally out of their
>depth". Like most things in
>life, go in with your eyes
>open, do your due diligence,
>weigh up the risks BEFORE you
>Get pissed off by all means,
>but in the end we all have to
>accept responsibility for our
>own mistakes.
>Warm regards,
>Michael Croft
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Renovations...there is a better way

Reply: 3.1
From: G D

Hey... you would think i would know my web address by now...there is no "au" after the com
Try this one...


Geoff Doidge
"capital gain is easy and property is fun"
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Renovations...there is a better way

Reply: 3.1.1
From: Kylie S

i couldn't access your site - is there something wrong with it? or is it my end?
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