Request for Information on Refund Real Estate, Refund Home Loans, Refund Group & Wayn

Discussion in 'Property Finance' started by RRE, 18th May, 2011.

  1. RRE

    RRE Member

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    I am requesting any information about Refund Real Estate, Refund Home Loans, Refund Group & Wayne Ormond.

    I have had an interest in real estate for many years with a small portfolio of property and I am currently considering buying a Refund Real Estate franchise. Before attending one of their information nights I would like to gather up a bit of background information to help distinguish facts from sales hype.

    Apart from the official website there appears to be very little information available online about Refund Real Estate, I’m guessing that is because it is so new.

    There must be information out there on these guys as the Refund Group and Refund Home Loans have been around since 2004. I guess it is just a matter of knowing where and what to look for or who to ask.

    Is there anyone out there already operating one of these franchises?
    I would be interested to hear what the training was like and the level of back support you receive.

    I am attracted to the concept of giving a refund, it sound like a real win/win situation which I hope will provide a competitive edge over other real estate agents. They are promoting that will be as revolutionary to the market as Refund Home Loans which has apparently been very successful, winning awards and establishing itself as a leader in the mortgage broker industry.
    I would like to know what others in the real estate and mortgage broking industries think of the Refund concept.

    Does anyone have any information about or firsthand experience dealing with; Wayne Ormond, Refund Real Estate, Refund Home Loans, the Refund Group, Refund Financial Planning, Refund Property and Refund Finance & Leasing?

    As this will be a major investment and change in career for me, I would appreciate any information that anyone can provide.
     
  2. Bigtone

    Bigtone Member

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    that group watch this forum and given the apology that one poster put up that was obviously written by their lawyer on comments they had previosuly made i think u will find most posters will not make any negative comments about that group at all.
     
  3. sash

    sash Member

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    Well...I am prepared to comment...I used their services.

    Unfortunately, it was not great. I did not proceed with the loan as it took forever to get the loan approval and the organisation processing the loan were absolute dipsticks. The process was painful as the representative was very inexperienced and new to Mortgage Lending. I am not prepared to name the broker as it would be unfair.

    As a result...I now deal directly with major banks. Still have issues...but am able to escalate a clobber people.

    Whilst, great credit needs to be given to Wayne Ormond on setting up this business. I would beg to differ as to whether Refund Home Loans is sufficiently geared to help large investors.

    Just so it is clear this is my personal opinion....and others may have had different experiences.

    But overall the Mortgage industry and the banking industry is pretty ineffective in my opinion.

    As for lawyers bring them on....the potentially damage to a public stoush can be very damaging to a brand. I know because my partner is lawyer.

     
  4. Bradsdad

    Bradsdad Mortgage Broker

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    Search the forums and you will see this topic (about Refund Home loans not Real estate) a few times.
    I'm wondering if Wayne Ormond has anything to do with the group that were shown on Today Tonight tonight (a friend called me as they watch that highly investigative current affairs programme :p) .
     
  5. RRE

    RRE Member

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    Thanks

    Thanks Bigtone, Sash and Bradsdad for your postings.

    I'm new to forums and not really an internet person, so I appreciate any assistance you can give me.

    I will try to search around and see if I can find previous postings as you have suggested, but it would be very helpful if you could post links to any related discussions or information that is already out there.

    Cheers
     
  6. BuildingBlocks

    BuildingBlocks Internet Warrior

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    I watched one of the refund home loan "franchise" ads on one of those crappy morning shows.

    The way that I read it is that you are just getting a referral fee if you put someone through to their head office? And because you are only getting the leads you did not need to be a qualified broker.

    So does this mean that you only receive the single payment and there is no passive income for the life of the loan? Wouldn't this then be a significantly lower income than other brokers would earn over say 20 years?

    Does the refund head office the take the rest? Or maybe that is the whole "refund" thing that goes back to the customer.

    Maybe someone can clarify.

    The vibe that I get from their commercials is that they are trying to lure mums and dads into buying franchises, the types of people who would not normally consider one, but this one is "so easy".

    I would be very interested in finding out the survival rates of these franchisees. I would also love to see a list of every franchisees annual income listed ...but of course that could never happen :eek:
     
  7. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Finance broker/strategist

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    IMO offering a commission refund for services is the same as an employee turning up to work on the condition they'll give their employer back a portion of their salary.

    Previously the industry has thrown around broker income figures suggesting the average brokers income is less than $70k. Really good brokers make a lot more but this suggests a lot of brokers make a lot less. Many work about 50-60 hours per week and it is a very stressful job. How much of your income are you willing to give to the customer?

    I've also made some observations of the number of Refund new entrants into mortgage broking vs the number of successful brokers.
     
  8. BuildingBlocks

    BuildingBlocks Internet Warrior

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    Without trailing commissions (assuming my understanding that the broker gets a one off commission is correct), what incentive does a Refund broker have to offer ongoing service to an existing customer?
     
  9. Peter_Tersteeg

    Peter_Tersteeg Finance broker/strategist

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    Buildingblocks, I believe Refund brokers do get both upfront and trail commission like most brokers. They also split part of their commissions with Refund group and Choice Aggregation. I don't know the figures, but I've heard the splits aren't that different from industry standard.

    I've PM'd my observations of success rates.
     
    BuildingBlocks likes this.
  10. RRE

    RRE Member

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    Wouldn’t having the group monitoring give them the opportunity to clarify any misinformation and ensure a balanced view?

    Surely as long as people sharing their experiences (good or bad) base them on fact and express them in a non slanderous way they should be nothing to fear.
     
  11. RRE

    RRE Member

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    I found this old thread, which appears to have been closed down :

    http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54248&highlight=refund+home+loans

    I have had a quick glance at it but will have to sift through it later.

    Is there any others I should be aware of?

    Cheers
     
  12. RRE

    RRE Member

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    Refund have been in the Mortgage Broking industry since 2004, but some of my concerns about Refund Real Estate are;

    * That Refund Real Estate "Refund" model is new and untested.
    * There appears to be no existing Real Estate franchisees at the moment to approach.
    * Apart from doing home loans, What expertise and experience does Refund have in Real Estate as an agent?

    Any information, thoughts or advices are appreciated.
    Cheers
     
  13. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Member

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    Hi BB

    There are figures around, publically available if you have a bo peep, I think average revenue per site was 68 k 2 years ago or so. Doesnt sound great BUT you have to remember that this is a new business model and will take time to build up.

    Averages mean NOTHING though.

    In all business systems, some will do very well, some will get by and some will flounder, with all starters having the same systems, resources, tools and support.

    Many times, research into a business opportunity should be just as much as researching YOUR own capapcity, willingness and actual commitment to make it work. Often, its right THERE where the line of sucess is drawn, and as humans its where we are the least willing to do the due diligence.

    ta
    rolf
     
  14. BuildingBlocks

    BuildingBlocks Internet Warrior

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    Agree about the averages, but would be good to see an individual figure for each and every franchise that has opened under the brand.

    The averages are boring, I want to see the top achievers and the list of the failed/folded :)
     
  15. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Member

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    Hi BB

    Best of luck.

    There are obvious privacy issues around that which often have more to do with the Franchisee than the Franchisor.

    Again, im not talking specifically of Mortgage Franchises, howevere I believe anyone with the right attitude can build a succesful mortgage business with the right mentorship and/or "upline" support

    ta
    rolf
     
  16. Mick C

    Mick C Mortgage Broker

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    IMHO regarding refunding commission.

    I would only consider spiting my commission to clients who's deal are very straight forward, standard 80% lend, good employment and history etc....

    But out of 20 clients, i will only get 1-2 that will ask for a refund or a split in the commission- I find as long as you offer a good service, knowlege, passion, advantage to the client and experience in what you recommended a lot of people would be happy for you to get paid 100% of your commission that you deserve. ( since it's free for the client to use your service in the first place :) )


    Regards
    Michael
     
  17. wobbycarly

    wobbycarly Carpe domus

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    Hear, hear!! :eek::eek:
     
  18. Rolf Latham

    Rolf Latham Member

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    you did mean spitting :)

    ta
    rolf
     
  19. Andrew_A

    Andrew_A Buyers Agent

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    Interesting

    Will be interesting to see how they go.

    A certain other discount sales agency with a business model that is growing quickly has been annoying agents for years, this group would appear to be more of the same.

    My view of the discount model is that it has potential to work quite well for the business owner or principal but not as well for employees in the system, as for results for the republic that will be interesting :)
     
  20. Independent

    Independent Member

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    RRE do your homework. Talk to current and past franchisees, get a copy of the disclosure document and call them directly and ask them what return they are getting on their dollars. Don't let Refund direct you towards hand picked franchisees. Do a search of the QLD court listings to see what past cases have been in court involving Wayne Ormond. Read the article on the misleading franchisees as per the ACCC.
    Whilst the refund may sound good in principle you would be better investing you money with an established brand as ANY Real Estate agent can give a 'refund' its called a reduction in commission