restrict the building cost through architecture design

Hi Guys,

While reading a development related book, I noticed it mensions about controling the building cost through architecture design. Does it mean I need tell the architecture before he started drawing that how much I gonna spend for a certain size dwelling? For example: can I ask the architecture to design a unit around 140sqm (3beds, 2 bathrooms, double garage) with the building cost under 120K ? or should I have to consult an surveyor first before I ask my architecture to do so?

Or does an architecture have the responsibilities to know how much a building will cost based on his/her design?

Thanks a lot

Ryan
 
An architect should, in my view, have a good idea what their designs will cost to build. But if you can find an architect who thinks they can design to a construction cost of less than $1000/m2, please pass on their details!!! Budget project home builders come in about the cost you mention, but I'd be amazed if you could get a custom design at anything like that price. Some years ago an architect told me he worked to a rule of thumb of $1500/m2 for normal floor areas, and $2500/m2 for wet areas. Admittedly this would be a fairly reasonable level of specification.

What is the experience of others - is it possible to build this inexpensively?
 
definitely tell them your intended product development... I did one recently where the upper storey floor was cantilevered out and there were vergola style skylights over the dining area etc (that was $20k alone). the builder took the plan and said right, nice concept but now i am going to chop 25% off the cost by being practical. not sure if i can still say its architecturally designed but it is still awesome without being silly
 
As I remember, my current architecture told me I can expect to spend $8000/square for building a single-storey unit. So I'm wondering if there are any builders here can detail the cost a little bit more. Or it's too hard to say due to the variable floor design?

By the way, the cost I mentioned above doesn't include the landscaping fee.
 
An architect should, in my view, have a good idea what their designs will cost to build. But if you can find an architect who thinks they can design to a construction cost of less than $1000/m2, please pass on their details!!! Budget project home builders come in about the cost you mention, but I'd be amazed if you could get a custom design at anything like that price. Some years ago an architect told me he worked to a rule of thumb of $1500/m2 for normal floor areas, and $2500/m2 for wet areas. Admittedly this would be a fairly reasonable level of specification.

What is the experience of others - is it possible to build this inexpensively?

I'm a bit scared by the cost you mentioned.

Is it different a lot about the building cost among different states? I would say it should be quite close, am I right?
 
these sqm rates are really hard to apply. In WA you can build a shell style project home of 200sqm for about $160k, so $800sqm for a shell. The project I mentioned above, 2 storey, costs trimmed right back by the builder, is $920k for 325sqm of living, finished to mid level spec, so $2830sqm there.

I woul dallow $1000sqm finished for a project home
up to $3000sqm 2 storey custom home

Am sure you will now get an avalanche of replies with wildly varying sqm rates
 
Am sure you will now get an avalanche of replies with wildly varying sqm rates
Should I lead off then by saying my little three unit two-story development is based on $2500/sqm. I'll know more accurately when I get to CC and tender the plans for quotes.

But that is a pretty accurate estimate I think based on pre-purchase guidance from a couple of quantity surveyors who worked on similar projects.

Cheers,
Michael.
 
hopefully that works out for you Michael, in my experience QS always under estimate, particularly in a high inflation environment
 
Thanks a lot guys!

Just start wondering how can the sunshine (victoria) developers make profit?
For example: a three bedroom brand new unit (ensuite, 2 bathroom, double garage), 170sqm (roughly 18 sq), the selling price is around $280K. so if it costs $2000/sqm to finish that project, it costs $340K to finish, then the developer will definitely lose a lot, not mention the land cost and other fees.

And the design of those units I think are customized as well coz I saw the shape of the land is unusual, at least we can't just put those big builders' general floor plan on the land.

Any other experienced cost description? or any builder here can give some comments?
 
In my experience, architects dont give a hoot about construction costs!:D
They are all too focused on designing the next award winning building so they can get a name for themselves!
If you want to build cheaply, get a builder to build you a box...if you need/want 2 story, then get him to build another box on top:D

Sorry if I offended any architects out there!! Deep down, they are nice people!!:D


Ausprop, I think a good QS should always be up to date with costings even in an inflated market...afterall, it is their job...I do know what you are saying, though.:)

Boods
 
Thanks a lot guys!

Just start wondering how can the sunshine (victoria) developers make profit?
For example: a three bedroom brand new unit (ensuite, 2 bathroom, double garage), 170sqm (roughly 18 sq), the selling price is around $280K. so if it costs $2000/sqm to finish that project, it costs $340K to finish, then the developer will definitely lose a lot, not mention the land cost and other fees.

And the design of those units I think are customized as well coz I saw the shape of the land is unusual, at least we can't just put those big builders' general floor plan on the land.

Any other experienced cost description? or any builder here can give some comments?

ryan mel,
on this particular example, $2000 per sqm is probably about 30% too high a rate to apply. In WA the rate for something you have described is around the $1400 to $1500 per sqm for construction and finishing costs.(turnkey)
The reality is at the moment, in WA, is that on a development like this one you have described, the developer will probably only make around $30k to $40k per unit profit.:(

Boods
 
In my experience, architects dont give a hoot about construction costs!:D
They are all too focused on designing the next award winning building so they can get a name for themselves!
If you want to build cheaply, get a builder to build you a box...if you need/want 2 story, then get him to build another box on top:D

Sorry if I offended any architects out there!! Deep down, they are nice people!!:D


Ausprop, I think a good QS should always be up to date with costings even in an inflated market...afterall, it is their job...I do know what you are saying, though.:)

Boods

Thanks Boods,

What you're saying makes sense for me at least. I do want to kind of box house, but the shape of the rest available land for me to build is quite complex.

Have realized I can't make the 20% margin rate for my unit development. so shall I stop applying for the DA now?

My situation is: the existing house cost me $260K, and I'm going to build a new unit in the backyard (300sqm land, however shape is complex as mentioned above), want to build a 15sq unit on, with the estimated selling price about $260K. so my figures would like below:

Existing house value: $260K --> reduce to $230K after become another unit
New Unit: $260K
Total Value: $490K
--------------------------------
Cost of buying the existing house:
Buying Price: $260K
Stamp Duty: $11,300
Finance Cost: $1,500
Mortgage Insurance: $3,500
Solicitor : $600
Interest : $26,000 (Holding cost for 15 months)
Total cost : $302,900
-------------------------------
Cost of building the new Unit:
15 sq = 145sqm * 1500/m = $218K
DA+BA+ Architecture: $15,000
Interest : $14,000
Selling cost: $5,000

Total cost: $252,000
--------------------------------

Final figure would be: $490K - $302,900 - $252K = -64,900


Cheers


Ryan
 
In my experience, architects dont give a hoot about construction costs!:D
They are all too focused on designing the next award winning building so they can get a name for themselves!
If you want to build cheaply, get a builder to build you a box...if you need/want 2 story, then get him to build another box on top:D

Sorry if I offended any architects out there!! Deep down, they are nice people!!:D


Boods

Boods,

As an architect, yes, I believe most of us are nice people!!

I acknowledge that some architects have hyper-inflated egos that can interfere with a project. Believe me, I've encountered a few in my time and I hate being tarred with that brush!

The majority of projects that I'm engaged to design are for tricky sites, or executive residences, or multiple dwellings rather than your run-of the mill duplex or triplex.

Yes, architecturally designed buildings do cost more on average, but the average is inflated as this number encompasses everything from a rather complex design through to a box with a roof.

Typically, those who utilise the services of an architect are already aware of the increased building costs compared to a project home builder. Over the years I have designed many duplexes etc. for clients targeting a niche market. They want something a little different and accept that this costs a little more.

As architects, we use our experience to design buildings within a budget to the best of our ability. A QS is trained to estimate cost. We spend 5 years at uni studying design theory, whereas the QS attends uni to study cost estimation...my point is that both professions are rather specific.

JJ
 
Many builders now have taken on Architects realising the ability of a good Architect to create visionary homes that sell. They compete on product not price.
I currently work for a building company as a tradesman that is owned by 2 Architects with a team of 5 that build visionary homes for the upper end of the market.
A good Architect is worth their salt. People realise that a well designed home retains some value especially in upper market properties designed with the more than standard 25 year design life of the standard project home.

From experience an Owner Builder will overspend their budget a lot around 30%. A lot of the over budget is due to people allowing for things like basic taps, tiles etc then walk away with products way above and beyond what was estimated.

Any Owner builder should go beyond the Estimators Bill of quantities and quotations (RFQs) from contractors prior to commencement. A very good cross check on the potential real cost of a structure. This also enables prior contact with trades rather than panic grabbing which can escalate costs.
Time is money and coordinating a smooth schedule is the key with plenty of prior planning and booking. Getting RFQs a week before a trade is required to start is a recipe for disaster.
Don't expect to pay the same rate as a builder that supplies a tradesperson work everyday of the week. Why would they leave them to work for you?

An overseeing Architect generally will have "all" the products selected prior to commencement "depending on the client".

Just to add many Owner builders who design their own homes panic on room size and end up with many rooms much bigger than they expected and design that doesnt end up how they anticipated with poor resale.
 
We just saw a vivid example of the potential of an architect-designed home in our street this week. Four homes of similar size/spec are for sale; three are early 1970s project homes with varying degrees of updating/improvements. One is an architect-designed home of the late 60s. It looks very 1968, but in a retro way, not in an "I am unloved and haven't been updated" way; that's the difference good design can make. It looks vintage, but not dated.

30dumbarton.jpg


The three homes have been on the market for between 3 and 6 weeks. The architect-designed home sold on the first weekend on the market.
 
Boods,

As an architect, yes, I believe most of us are nice people!!

I acknowledge that some architects have hyper-inflated egos that can interfere with a project. Believe me, I've encountered a few in my time and I hate being tarred with that brush!



JJ

Hiya Jimbo...
Im sorry to have been so very broard in my assertion...I do acknowlege that not all architects are the same...I humbly apologise...:)
You do make some very valid points in your post, also

Boods
 
Thanks everyone. I got a sketch from my architecture today. Although I want to do some adjustment on it, it's pretty much like box design I think. So I just assume it might be a cost-effective design.

Cheers

Ryan
 

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your plan

Interesting thread, I always love seeing peoples view on per sqm, my input to the thread is;

1. throwing sqm rates around is pointless unless coupled with inclusion lists. Its the inclusions which blow the price out significantly. Further more peoples understanding of "low-cost" is more times than not low-cost e.g. low-cost means laminate kitchen bench tops, ready made vanities without recessed sinks etc etc most people "cant bear the thought of building such a development" and find they always tend to build a medium standard home and hence the figures blow out.

2. Architects although they "cut out" major cost items if you stress this from the start they jump on seemingly innocent lines in your brief e.g. "would like a interesting facade" or "clean lines" etc etc. Clean lines for instance translates to less columns and walls but more steel (without experience, you wont see this on the plans but see it when the builder tells you $$ for it)

If your architect speaks to you as if he wants to eventually be designing the opera house extension RUN. you need an architect thats in tune with develop expectations e.g. if most of their past work are unit developments then good but if most is unique single houses then theres a risk he will always lean towards $$ rather than cost effective design.

Basically its easy to spot out the costs, ANYTHING that looks groovy, different will cost additional $$.

(RYAN)

Regarding your plan, this is only my opinion and what I would change/do on the plan as per attached;

1. There is a lot of space you can save on this design;
a) Your rooms are huge, especially your master bedroom. (ensuit is too, its almost as large as your main bathroom)
b) theres a lot of wasted space in the corridor a smart design could minimize this e.g. the same behind what looks like the "fridge" space, the little section leading into the main.

tip: I would pinch sqm from each of the rooms and add a dedicated study/nook. This will get you more $$ because people compare houses feature to feature e.g. just because your rooms as massive you will still loose against another 4 bedroom + study house. E.g. 3 small bedrooms will always beat 2 large bedrooms in price.

2. There are a lot of corners in this house which cost you more $$ in truss design, footings etc (I know this was done to build along the boundary, i just feel it can be done better)
a) find out if for instance in the main (wir\ensuite) if you can have no eave and rather build under the roof line rather than having it stick out creating two more corners, and roof lines.
b) (i dont 100% support this comment but its something to think about) in the main if you go for a built-in and ensuit you could reduce the size significantly and square off this part of the house and increase the size of other sections in order to reduce the number of corners.

$$
a) that porch is cantilevered that will cost you $$ and wont add a single dollar to your development. - this may have been done because most of the house is hidden and this is your ONLY design feature? still it will cost you $$

b) sliding door to master is this necessary? it will cost more $$ and be annoying because you would logically place the bed against that wall as the entrance to the WIR and the door entrance is on the other side. A better solution would be to change the sliding door to a window and flip the ensuit/wir mirror imaged this way the bed can logically be against the b2/master wall and the entry to wir at the end of the bed and have a window you can see through while sleeping and make the room more impressive when you walk in.

C) the laundry surely can me moved from the centre of the house and facing the backyard??? most laundries for houses have direct external access (your female potential buyers will spot this in under 2 seconds)

----

I dont know the zoning rules\building codes for your area but ive seen many and most let you build garage\parking to the boundary. so ask your architect this;

Question

Is it not better to have the parking for BOTH units on southern boundary??? i.e. where its currently labled "we need to locate open space for unit 1"??

I would asume if you have a locked up garage which would get you more $$ would fit in this spot and can be adjoining to the existing development and have 0 set back from the neighbor AND substantially increase your private open space on the other side. (NOTE* if your architect agrees he basically has to flip the back house design i.e. start again :p)



Well i know most of what i wrote is hard to understand and I didn't write it to lecture... its just my opinion and what i would do.

Cheers and good luck
 
box design

sorry.. re-read your post.

NO its not box design

box design is 5 corners max yours has 9 (thats a LOT)

-- the master can surely be tucked into the eave (tell your architect he will understand i.e. 0 eave) - that will knock out at-least 2 corners
-- your entry is $$

sorry i'm repeating... GOOD LUCK!
 
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