Ridiculous situation, advice please.

[units4me]

Hi all. I have a ridiculous situation. I own a two bedder unit in Surfers Paradise which I rent out as holiday unit week by week, via a real estate agency who does holiday lettings. Back in Jan '04 we had a tennant who wanted to hire the unit for a four week period from mid january. He first sent his brother to check it out, who OKed it. He then signed a rental agreement with REA and paid the agent via credit card over the phone ($2300 which is cheap). When he came to move in, he apparently decided that he didn't want the unit and went to the REA's office, threw the keys back at the receptionist and demanded a full refund, which of course was refused as is normal in holiday season. He then created an abusive scene and then vanished. When told of this by the PM, I asked what could happen down the track, to which the reply was that they could neither refund him nor relet the unit as he had a paid rental agreement in place. So that was that, the unit sat empty from mid jan. to mid feb. No harm done you would think. The rent is paid so what difference does it make occupied or not?
Today ( 10 months later ) I receive a letter from REA wanting me to re imburse them almost $2000, because the BANK HAD REVERSED THE CREDIT CARD TRANSACTION as the tennant claims that he had not authorised the payment, although it was paid and he had a signed rental agreement. The REA apparently disputed this with the bank, but to no avail and now I have to pay.


Whose fault is this??????????? Is it the bank, who are just way too quick to take a card holders word over anybody elses????????
Is it the REA's fault, who maybe should have known that this could happen.???????? Any advice would be appreciated. Cheers

 

[quiggles]

It is ridiculous and the following is not legal advice.

You could suggest (or have the REA suggest) to the bank that you intend to pursue this debt of theirs to you and that in the meantime you are going to enter a caveat over every piece of property they own. Standard finance company treatment. It may embarrass or inconvenience them. What they do in relation to the cardholder is their problem.

You could ask them sweetly whether it is their policy to deny merchants payment on the sayso of cardholders - if so, you would like a credit card with a very big balance.

You could also threaten them with the banking ombudsman. You have the signed lease as evidence of the service provided and testimony available that having accepted the payment, you held the property vacant. In a completely different situation I have found the use of the banking ombudsman effective, although I don't know if he covers credit card disputes.

Bob

 

[plumtree]

Try a solicitor. Your only hope is to recover your funds via any contract you may have with the person who signed the lease or rental agreement. You will probably find that he will suggest that you misrepresented the quality of your apartment....or somthing. Does it add up? Is it worth spending the money on legal fees? There must have been some form of contract.

Regards plumtree.

 

[TheBacon]

Try a solicitor. Your only hope is to recover your funds via any contract you may have with the person who signed the lease or rental agreement. You will probably find that he will suggest that you misrepresented the quality of your apartment....or somthing. Does it add up? Is it worth spending the money on legal fees? There must have been some form of contract.

Regards plumtree.

See legal advice.

That said, dont pay the RE agency the money that they had taken off them. If you pay the r/e agent quickly, what incentive do they have to take action? However make sure you do this to show the agent you have a common enemy. Dont make an enemy of the r/e agent.

Immediately place this tenant on every 'bad tenant' database available.

seek legal advice

Ring the department of fair trade (or whatever name it goes by this week in your state or territory)

Ring the ombudsman

Seek legal advice

Ring your local MP who will have an interest in keeping local business owners (landlords) happy

Get all of your documentation together now. Make copies. Foe example, the lease (have you seen a copy from the r/e?). The credit card receipt. The record of the conversations between r/e and tenant, etc etc etc

Let us know how this plays out

Seek legal advice



Thebacon

 

[thefirstbruce]

I would ask the REA politely, on the basis that your solicitor is getting involved, to give you copies of:

- all correspondence between itself and the credit card company, and/or their solicitors.
- all advertisements featuring your unit at the time of rental.

In fact, I would ask politely in person, and wait in their office while they get the copies.

The reason for this is that I doubt the REA has acted as they advised you. I cannot imagine the credit card company would have upheld the refund if they had sighted the signed agreement, and there were no extenuating circumstances, such as the unit not being as the REA represented. I think there is probably more to this story than the REA wants to let on.

 

[likewow]

Why did it take 10 months? When and how did the CC company reverse the transaction?

A couple of years ago i was overcharged for a phone CC transaction and rang the CC company (Westpac Visa) to ask for a correction or reversal. They basically said, "no way, you have to take it up with the merchant you dealt with, we cant withdraw from an account without authorisation", which makes sense. I then sorted it out with the merchant.

 

[plumtree]

A couple of years ago my mobile phone company inadvertenly put through 3 charges on my account instead of 1 as authorised. They contacted the bank who would not discuss anything with them. I had to file 2 objections within a certain time limit and the bank reversed the 2 incorrect entries.
The bank advised that their policy was to keep any confict at arms length. that is, between the 2 parties involved in the transaction.
It is a good thing to know that you can object to a questionable transaction and therefore make the other party prove their case.
Your problem with this rental is not with the bank but with the tenant and, to a certain extent the REA and his method of doing business. Perhaps next time a deposit will be locked in.
If your tenant was on a holiday and had a legitimate complaint about the condition of the rental premises surely he has the right to complain and find more suitable accomodation.
On a recent trip to England, we prebooked on 5 occasions at various hotels. We objected to the state of 3 and moved to more suitable places without objection.
It may be one of the perils of short term rentals.

Regards Plumtree

 

[Peter 14.7]

I would ask the REA politely, on the basis that your solicitor is getting involved, to give you copies of:

- all correspondence between itself and the credit card company, and/or their solicitors.
- all advertisements featuring your unit at the time of rental.

In fact, I would ask politely in person, and wait in their office while they get the copies.

The reason for this is that I doubt the REA has acted as they advised you. I cannot imagine the credit card company would have upheld the refund if they had sighted the signed agreement, and there were no extenuating circumstances, such as the unit not being as the REA represented. I think there is probably more to this story than the REA wants to let on.

I agree with the First Bruce. Something is not kosher!

Whilst I have never had payment refused I have refused payment for a service not up to scratch and refused. They offered a package dinner, accommodation brekkie deal.

Fawlty Towers would have been proud. It was shocking. Before using any facilities, other than a dinner from hell, I politly but firmly told them this was not what they promised and we would be leaving and paying for the “meal” only. I paid and signed via credit card for the meal only. The vendor applied the entire amount in two claims.

Even then I had not signed the second; it took 10 months to get the payment reversed.

I not sure if I signed a book or not but I had a hell of a time getting my money back. In the end. I only got back my $180 by threatening to cancel my AMEX and only because we spent $3k a month that they gave a refund but I still think the vendor got paid.

I don’t know if this info helps but something is dodgy. I would guess the agent took the credit card no. and did not get a signature. If so, it is their problem.

Your contract is with the agent, their contract is with the tenant. They wear the loss I say.

Peter 147

PS I am not a lawyer.

 

[WillG]

I would have thought a short term rental agreement would have a 24 hour non-refund policy if the tennent changed his mind 24 hours prior to arriving (similar to a hotel refund policy).

 

[superted]

This will be interesting to see what "game" the REA is playing.

Try and keep the thread updated if its possible...

 

[dwyerfam]

I'm a bit puzzled. What happend to the $300 that he did not get back?

It appears to me that the REA must have OK'ed the refund to the bank's sayso and they settled on a deal for $2,000 instead of full amont of $2,300 (Are they keeping the $300 as an admin charge?).

The non-tennant must have been hounding the REA for months for a refund and they may have paid it back in the hope that the (abusive) person will then leave the REA & staff alone.??

I dunno....... it does need more investigations.

Will be very intersted in the out come as many of us deal with credit cards a fair bit.

Danny D.

 

[asy]

I'm in the "Agree with firstbruce" Camp...

The usual process when a credit card is dishonoured is that the merchant gets a letter from the CC which asks them to furnish any signed CC Slips or documentation.

Had the agent been able to provide a signed CC Slip I doubt the CC would have been reversed. In this instance the CC company should have referred the tenant to the tribunal to try to get their rent back (or legal means).

Your PM Should still have looked for another tenant for that period of time, in all rights, and had they found one, that period of time, less an admin charge, should have been refunded to this tenant. Must say, seems lazy on your PM's part.

It also begs the question, WHY did they go look at it and decide it was not what they wanted? Was it not clean up to scratch?? (Not that this is a reason, since their brother looked through it, just wondering).

Note usual disclaimers

asy

 

[Lplate]

I think independent review would arrive at the conclusion that it is a holiday location and the REA should have re-let immediately. There would be difficulty in claiming even a small admin fee from the tenant. The tenant is out of the equation.

It's between you and the REA. Next the REA could do something silly like getting a debt collector and you could do something silly like getting a lawyer. Lawyers love people who feel wronged.

You could lock horns or you could get on the phone and see if you could negotiate a 50/50 deal. Try to work out a compromise. Why waste more time and $ chasing fluff?

 

[Jerry Maguire]

someone did that to me a few months ago
i'm more than happy to refund them the money
but i put them in the bad tenants books

No hassle problems solve and moved on

 

[ggumpshots]

Asy has a good accurate concise response.
I would also get the name of the tenant and phone him to see what his side of the story is........the worst that can happen is he tells you to %@#% off,.... but he could also shed some light.
I think the PM may be leaving some info out.

 

[units4me]

Hi all.
I would like to thank you all for you helpful advice. You really are a cluey lot. Just to clarify the situation a bit, the reason that I need to refund about $2000 is that the REA refunds about $300 (their commission 13.2%). Funny about how the credit card co. keeps the merchant commission and dimwit tennant probably keeps their reward points as well.
Some suggested that we may in some way have misrepresented the property. I dont think so, because REA reckons all other tennants really liked unit. It is a very tidy 2BR renovated older brick unit four (4) metres from river, with all new furniture, bedding etc and panoramic views. Of course it's no hilton, but this is MORE than reflected in the low rental rate.
I am now waiting for REA to provide me with documentation etc. Apparently, they are still fighting bank. Tennant is from NZ so data bases etc are not much use. I will keep you posted. cheers