Roof Leaks - HELP

Sorry guys, one other question, what is the usual case/expected waiting time for a strata manager to finish getting quotes, organizing plumber inspections, setting up and getting approval from the General Meeting?

I was hoping from start to finish, would just take about 4wks. I mean prior to the actual repair work began...........
 
you are legally entitled to the other members contact details. the OC providing you with their mailing address is still providing their details. You should put this request in writing.

I was you i would also be putting in a formal request to inspect the financials of the OC which you are legally entitled to do. I am not sure of the specific process in NSW, however there should be an OC website that would provide you with this information. You may also want to contact the OC board of your state. There is one in Victoria (called OCV) so I would imagine there would be something similar in NSW.

In regards to the time frame.... it would be reasonable to expect that it may take a few weeks to get a few quotes and reports and then depending on the legislative requirements in your state a GM may be called with circa 14-28 days notice to all residents.

Quite frankly, it doesn’t matter what it costs to repair - saying that it might be too expensive to repair or that it will deplete the reserve funds (although it doesn’t sound like there is too much) is one of the worst excuses I have ever heard. If it needs to be fixed then it should get fixed and the OC will be required to raise a special levy to all owners depending on their individual unit of liability.

The manager should be able to tell you within a few key strokes of how much money is currently in the sinking fund, and if he can’t then it means that his accounts aren’t up to date and he has no freaking idea what is going on.

IMO you should go back to the office of fair trading now... you have already tried to resolve this with the OC for the last 7 months and have gotten nowhere.... as above please also contact the OC board in your state (or look up their website) they will also be able to provide you with a wealth of information. And PLEASE start the process to arrange to inspect the financials of the building.. this will give you a true indication of how the building is being run financially and give you more ammunition to get rid of the OC. Other owners may not care to much about the leak, but they will start caring when they see that the OC has been so badly run that it is going to cost them a bucket load of money to fix up.

Good luck!
 
You are so right Willair, the unit has had a total make over before the owner put it up for sale, in fact, this entire complex of 30 units has been previously owned by one single developer for the last 7 years, and has just recently been subdivided for individual sale of the units. That's why, there wasn't much on the strata record when we conducted a search prior to purchase....

And yes, what you mentioned about the scale of the water internal damage was something the strata manager responded straight away when I first mentioned about the problem of molds appearing on the ceiling.....I was fairly surprised to hear that as it looked as though he knew what the problem was straight away without actually inspecting it...............

sigh...........

And there it is. This is what most likely happened:

The developer, who was probably the builder, did a bodgy job that needed repairs, and rather than do the right thing and fix everything, ran his own body corporate, only spending money where he absolutely had to until the 7 year builders liability period was up, and not putting any money at all into a reserve slush fund. Then he strata titled everything, sold them off, and passed all the problems on to the new buyers who now have to fork money out of their own pockets to do work that rightfully the previous owner/strata should have done.

Looks like there is a good chance that everyone in the complex is going to have to chip in some money towards fixing the problem, either by the strata company going into debt and recouping the money later on with future levies, or with a direct payment.

The department of fair trading obviously prefers for people to sort out their own problems, but if it were me, I would be getting them to mediate directly right away. Worst case scenario, it does get ugly and you have to mediate. Best case scenario, the body corp guy realises that he is under scrutiny and pulls his socks up.

I knew something smelt bad.
 
From what I read from Terri Scheer PDS (landlord insurance), I don't think they cover this kind of damage either :(

would strata's building insurance cover this?
 
Your story is very similar to ours, I could have thought you were in the same apartment complex except that ours is in Melbourne.

Our complex was built in 2005 and we bought at the end of 2007. Right from the start there were problems with the body corporate managing company, water penetration issues and one person, who owned the majority of the units, not paying their strata fees so there was no money to pay things like insurance, electricity etc. It was a complete shambles, nothing ever got done and we were pretty much the only owner-occupier in the building. The main difference is that the water penetration issues were because of balconies that had not been sealed properly, which meant water penetration issues for the apartments below them - this meant it was an owner problem, not a body corporate problem.

We're finally ok now, but the bad news for you is that it's taken us nearly 4 years to get the BC financial and sort out the water penetration issues. However we wouldn't have managed to turn this around without:

  • a change in personnel in the body corporate management company (we couldn't just change or sack them as there was a 5-year contract with them)
  • continued pestering of said personnel to pester the people owing money to the body corporate
  • several trips to VCAT to make the unfinancial members pay their bills (worth over $100k)
  • the main trouble-maker realising that we weren't going to stop harassing them to do the right thing, so they sold up the majority of their units. There are now many more owner-occupiers willing to attend meetings and wanting to get things fixed.
  • continued pestering of the insurance-company-appointed builder/plumber to investigate water problems and quote for the work that needed doing
  • several emergency body corporate meetings where it was decided that people would have to pay to fix their balconies (and this was upwards of $5k for EACH apartment depending on size)
  • more trips to VCAT to make people pay for the balcony repairs

While we enjoyed the apartment itself, it has been a major source of stress, and has cost us a lot of time and money. Unfortunately, this seems to be a very common situation. For us, the main turnaround was new people in the building. If people don't sell their apartments you're stuck with investors who, in our experience, are completely uninterested in maintaining their investment as long as it's making money for them.

There are so many things you need to turn the situation around that are out of your control. I'm sorry to say that, at least based on my experience, it's going to take a lot of time and perseverance on your part to get the outcome you want.

Get on the executive committee as soon as you can, its the only way you'll get things done.

Also, in our situation the insurance company is involved with these repairs, not because they'll pay for things to get fixed, but because they threatened us that until repairs were made they would no longer insure us. It might be different for you, but for our situation there was no builders warranty (not applicable for structures over 3 storeys - this doesn't make sense to me at all, surely these are the sorts of places that SHOULD have a warranty) and insurance doesn't cover it because the damage was caused by building defects.

I really feel for you, and good luck with it.
 
And there it is. This is what most likely happened:

The developer, who was probably the builder, did a bodgy job that needed repairs, and rather than do the right thing and fix everything, ran his own body corporate, only spending money where he absolutely had to until the 7 year builders liability period was up, and not putting any money at all into a reserve slush fund. Then he strata titled everything, sold them off, and passed all the problems on to the new buyers who now have to fork money out of their own pockets to do work that rightfully the previous owner/strata should have done.

Looks like there is a good chance that everyone in the complex is going to have to chip in some money towards fixing the problem, either by the strata company going into debt and recouping the money later on with future levies, or with a direct payment.

The department of fair trading obviously prefers for people to sort out their own problems, but if it were me, I would be getting them to mediate directly right away. Worst case scenario, it does get ugly and you have to mediate. Best case scenario, the body corp guy realises that he is under scrutiny and pulls his socks up.

I knew something smelt bad.

Hi Ocean Architect, I am not sure if you work in the field of architecture in real life, but indeed, you are absolutely SPOT ON with this....

Yes, the entire building block was up for sale about 9 months ago, and it was all tenanted before then during the last 7 years and was managed by one single agent whom eventually strata titled and sold the individual lots for the builder. Previous owner indeed was a construction company.

At the time of sale, the units were priced on average $10-20k below the market price, with the agent saying that the owner was interested in selling off the entire block in a timely manner so that proceeds from the sale can be redirected to fund his construction project elsewhere.

As my partner and I were first-time buyers, we were only aware of the importance of getting our finance sorted. So by the time we found this unit, we had only completed our homework on the finance aspect of things. We still didn't have a solicitor appointed to act on our behalf.

As the agent at the time was so helping and friendly (I know this sounds really stupid now...but that was how we really felt at the time as 1st time home buyers) we used the solicitor he recommend (WHICH WAS A COSTLY MISTAKE looking back now), as he said the same solicitor had already acted on behalf of so many other buyers in the block, he would be very experienced and knowledgeable about this building and most of the buyers were very happy with his service.

So as the story goes, we used the solicitor the REA recommended, and trouble began there. TO our horror, the solicitor did not at all go through the contract details with us, only merely warned us that we should get our finance sorted and be ready to settle. We had no copy of the contract to go through, and thereby didn't know much about the terms and conditions enclosed. When asked, the solicitor merely replied it is just one standard contract, when one special condition that, if at the day settlement, our bank was not able to settle, then we are liable for all the relevant charges the vendor incurred, and will also subject to further interest charges at the rate of 10% should we not able to settle 2 weeks after that.

The solicitor recommended no strata search be done, as strata scheme merely came to being and mentioned nothing about unit inspection. He was also against us doing building inspection for purchasing the unit, said he knew about this building from other buyers he served, and one was so confident ended buying 3 units in one go, so there really should be no concern at all. There was no mention of extending the cooling off period so that all the searches can be done in a proper manner.

So trouble came when I insisted on having a strata search done and a unit inspection at least. The solicitor said he only had time to do the strata search and I would have to arrange a unit inspection on my own. He did not wish to see us prior to the ending of the cooling off period, as in his words, there would not be much to talk about as reports would not be ready until the final day.

So on the day cooling off ends, my partner and I went to his office taking the unit inspection report with us. Fortunately, there were just two minor issues with the lot, which when I mentioned to the solicitor, he said fairly quickly he could try to negotiate with the owner, but if the vendor doesn't respond, there's nothing much he could help, as the day is the finishing of cooling off. It's a time for us to make a decision whether to proceed or not.

As for the strata search, there was no written report whatsoever. Merely miscellaneous list of items, for which we were told that even though the strata was in debt of around 30k in utility bills and had no building insurance at the time, they would all be recovered fairly quickly as the builder sells off the rest of the units and in time, the strata manager would arrange for one building policy so that there is nothing much to worry about. However, he was not able to provide break down of the utility debts.

Long story short, my partner and I by that stage was pretty upset by the attitude of the solicitor and felt he was more working in the interest of the seller rather then us, the buyers. By that stage, we had already paid the solicitor $900 dollars for his work.

We then flipped over the contract to another conveyancer, recommended by our colleague to have a more independent view at the contract for us. However the process of doing that was not easy. As expected, the process of transferring the contract was ugly and difficult. The solicitor, even though agreed in principle to hand over the contract, (I said to him he could keep the deposit of $900 we paid) his secretary however kept on saying she had already filed our contract and would take up to one week for her to find it, and demanded us not to return to their office until we were given the notice to do so. Obviously this was an outright excuse, so my partner and I had to take one day off the work, and demand for the return of the contract in person.

Fortunately, by the time the conveyancer had a look at the report, there was not too much unpleasant news. We did not though, recommission for another strata inspection, because in the conveyancer view, since the cooling off period had already finished, there would not be much we could negotiate with the vendor. We would be liable anyway to proceed with the contract.

---So yeah, that was our horrific struggle up to the settlement stage....:(:(:(
 
That sounds like unconscionable conduct on behalf of the solicitor. If you're upset enough, complain to the bar association (or whatever it is called in your state) and make his life miserable. They'll investigate, and it wont cost you anything.

Yes, for all those reading, I'm a troublemaker and like engaging whatever apparatus pertains to particular professions to shatter their nerves/take their sleep away.

As you now know, never, ever use any party reccommended by a REA. Assume that they're trying to screw you (because they usually are) and so seek independant professional advice.

If the original owner left debts of $30 000, the strata company should be chasing that.

Oh and I'm in building, developing, and the architectural studio is just for producing pretty pictures of buildings from plans - but I know what scumbags people are and your story is an old one, unfortunately
 
That sounds like unconscionable conduct on behalf of the solicitor. If you're upset enough, complain to the bar association (or whatever it is called in your state) and make his life miserable. They'll investigate, and it wont cost you anything.

Yes, for all those reading, I'm a troublemaker and like engaging whatever apparatus pertains to particular professions to shatter their nerves/take their sleep away.

As you now know, never, ever use any party reccommended by a REA. Assume that they're trying to screw you (because they usually are) and so seek independant professional advice.

If the original owner left debts of $30 000, the strata company should be chasing that.

Oh and I'm in building, developing, and the architectural studio is just for producing pretty pictures of buildings from plans - but I know what scumbags people are and your story is an old one, unfortunately

Thanks Ocean Architect once again for your generous advise. At this stage, I am just thinking of hiring a plumber myself to have a look at the mods and water entry as well as watermarks on the ceiling myself.

Just wondering if you would recommend any reliable license plumber you know of in Sydney?

Also, when my partner and I were having a close look at the ceiling molds last night, we noticed they were kind of dried up and can be mopped up easily with our hands alone......even though they are still very faint yellow water marks behind...not sure what does this mean?:confused::confused:

Should I get a photo uploaded?

Thanks. Any other suggestions/recommendations are always welcome!
 
In my case, i'm more worried about concrete cancer and future damages more than cosmetic stuff. Very costly repairs coming up :(
 
In my case, i'm more worried about concrete cancer and future damages more than cosmetic stuff. Very costly repairs coming up :(

What did you mean Ashalim? You are saying what I am having at the moment is more than water leakage from the rooftop?? I thought it is probably something like waterproofing failure.....

Would love if you can share some more lights on that....
 
I was talking about my IP. The waterproof membrane for my IP's roof is worn and need replacing. multiple units are affected by leeks.

Here's to hoping there's no structural damage caused by the leak.
 
I was talking about my IP. The waterproof membrane for my IP's roof is worn and need replacing. multiple units are affected by leeks.

Here's to hoping there's no structural damage caused by the leak.

I see Ashalim, thanks so much for your reply there.......so water leaking if not attended to promptly would lead to structural damage like concrete cancer?

Btw, if waterproof membrane for the roof is worn and need replacing, does the strata management need to replace the membrane for the entire roof or just the area directly above mine?
 
Thanks Ocean Architect once again for your generous advise. At this stage, I am just thinking of hiring a plumber myself to have a look at the mods and water entry as well as watermarks on the ceiling myself.

Just wondering if you would recommend any reliable license plumber you know of in Sydney?

Also, when my partner and I were having a close look at the ceiling molds last night, we noticed they were kind of dried up and can be mopped up easily with our hands alone......even though they are still very faint yellow water marks behind...not sure what does this mean?:confused::confused:

Should I get a photo uploaded?

Thanks. Any other suggestions/recommendations are always welcome!

the yellow marks are just discoloration from the water, whether its degradation of the paint or sediment or whatever I don't know, but that's normal when you have a roof leak. The mould is obviously there because it was moist and had the opportunity to grow, and it being dry at the moment just means that the ceiling has dried out and the mould has died/dried. No need for photos.

I have no idea about sydney plumbers sorry to say, but the yellow pages is 8 inches thick in sydney and so you shouldn't have too much trouble at all finding a guy to climb the roof and check it out, preferably as a free quote because so many people are out of work and scratching to find more.

Good luck, keep us updated, and spit roast that cheeky body corp guy
 
I see Ashalim, thanks so much for your reply there.......so water leaking if not attended to promptly would lead to structural damage like concrete cancer?

Btw, if waterproof membrane for the roof is worn and need replacing, does the strata management need to replace the membrane for the entire roof or just the area directly above mine?
you're on the top floor and so water in order to get to concrete is going to have to go through your tiles/grout first (and wouldnt cause concrete cancer anyway, that's ususally because of other minerals/chemicals being in the water - sulfates mostly from memory when you build houses on swampland or rubbish dumps and things like that - nothing for you to worry about)

what you do have to worry about is the damage to your plaster/render and, in cases of prolonged exposure, a weakening of your tile glue that shortens the life of the tiles ie they come unstuck in 10 years instead of 30 or whatever) as well as cabinetry etc etc. Water is public enemy number 1 when it comes to buildings - the drier the building, the less problems you have/the longer teh building stays in good condition.

Don't get ahead of yourself with the waterproof membrane type stuff just yet, let the plumber/roofer have a look and work out what's going on first. No need to speculate and stress yourself out for nothing.

cheerios
 
^^ what Ocean Architect said :)

In my case the roofer already had a look and confirmed worn waterproof membrane. All the top floor units (including mine) are leaking so they need to replace the whole thing.

Strata manager had some quote coming in from $50k - $70k...I don't know that's a rip off or not.

The $70k quote come from Danrae waterproofing, which looks like a big company. I dont know if those prices are ridiculous or not :(
 
Hi Ocean Architect/Ashalim/Many others

Thanks so much for all your inputs!! Really Appreciated.

I have in mean time tried to discuss the issue with the Strata Manager,and he said from the sound of things, he reckons it is much to do with failure of the rooftop waterproofing membrane, and said to address this kind of issue, he is more incline to replace the entire rooftop membrane, rather than just limiting the fix to the area directly above my unit, as this kind of partial repair in his opinion will not last more than 12 months.[Is this correct? Not sure if this his excuse of delaying the repair later, as nothing still has been planned so far.]:confused::confused::confused: Hence, it will be a costly and big repair job that would involve long term planning, approval of the executive committee, a general meeting as well as tendering process to award the repair job to the most appropriate contractor. So things will get dragged out.

By the way guys, I have uploaded 3 pictures on how the rooftop looked like after the pool of water had dried out. Any one can tell me what these white stuff are? All the molds have now gone, and these white flaky stuff are actually quite hard and some of them even half blocking some of the rooftop draining points.
 

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someones bodge attempt to fix the grout washing away. Tile waterproofer that specializes in this area is probably the go. Might be something simplish
 
The white would be calcium.. if you want to remove it yourself to mitigate further ponding and water damage, i'd use a scrubbing brush, one part hydrochloric acid, with ten parts water. As long as you're draining into a pvc pipe?
 
Thanks guys once again for still being with me and helping me through this leaking nightmare...

With that white stuff being calcium..does that confirm what the strata manager has said in that it's a failure of rooftop waterproofing issue? :confused:and that in order to address this problem, it's better to replace the entire waterproofing of the building roof, rather than doing a patchwork repair just isolated to the area directly above my unit? :confused::confused:As that staff is pretty much everywhere on the rooftop throughout the entire building complex (3 blocks)

Also, is this white stuff indicative of concrete cancer? Cause there is one plumber finally sent by the strata manager to inspect the problem and within less than 2minutes of overall inspection, fairly quickly said this white stuff are concrete cancer?:eek: Personally I felt he wasn't professional at all and wasn't keen on inspecting the leakage within my unit, but rather wanted to quickly go on the rooftop and didn't bother to explain at all to me whatever the issue is.................I am finding this whole thing weird...........
 
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