sanding wooden floors

[whitt]

has anybody tried to sand and seal wooden floors themselves?
How hard is the job?
Could it be attempted succesfully by an amatuer?

The reason i ask is the property we are to do a minor reno on has wooden floors which are uncarpeted and unsealed, but in good condition. The area we are considering is the living area to sand and seal. Am yet to measure up room size yet however.

Quotes here in NZ are about $21 P/M for sand and seal or about $10 P/M for sand VS Hireage of sander from a hire company is $68 per day, sanding belts @ $6 each. If it was not to big a job and I could do it i think i could save a bit of $$$, maybe if sealing was more difficult i could just sand them and pay somebody else to seal.

any ideas or advice from people who may have attempted this task would be appreciated.

thank you.

Whittaker Hamilton

 

[ani]

Hi whitt

Personally it is a job I'd pay a professional to do.

Those sanding machines have a mind of their own! I was making more hills and valleys than I was removing - eek.

Get a few more quotes though - your floors sound in good condition so going rate here would be around $16m2.

Cheers
ani

 

[Jas]

I did a small job (3X3 metre room) with a hand sander. Wouldn't do it for a big job, but for a small one it was fine.

Jas

 

[Simon]

Get some quotes. We had a variation of between $800 and $2000 for ourlast job. We took the $800 job and are very very happy with it.

Our neighbour is quite the handyman and decided to do his home himself. I thought I would do the same until I saw his finished job.

It is very easy to get an uneven finish, with marks from the sander all over the floor.

Good luck,

 

[Queen Bee]

I am a newbie to IP and have been lurking for a couple of weeks now. Myself and my partner have our own floorsanding business and after researching IP's for about 8 months we bought two properties within 6 weeks of each other. Our second one goes unconditional today. We've already rented our first one out.

When I saw your question about floorsanding, I just couldn't contain myself any longer and felt I had to put my two cents worth in.

It must be extremely competitive in Auckland because the rates in Wellington are higher so you'd be getting a good deal with those rates that you quoted. Check what you're actually going to get for sand and seal. We sand, seal and polyurethane, which is totally different than sand and seal. Sealer is just what it says, it only seals the floor - it's not polyurethane. Our standard rate for sand, seal and poly is approx $31.50 per sqm. Prices depend on the condition of the floor but sanding is usually between $12.00-$20.00 per sqm. Also remember punching and filling nail holes if you require them. Filler is very expensive, especially if you want to fill a large area.

You can attempt the sanding yourself, but it's pretty hit and miss if you don't know what you're doing. If you stop walking and the drumer sander is still going, you will leave big dump marks in your floor which are almost impossible to remove. You will need an edger machine which you have to keep moving as well and you will need different sandpaper for both these machines. You will then need rollers to roll on the polyurethane and brushes to cut in around the edges. You will also need a buffing machine (looks like a floor polisher but has got sandpaper on it). After every coat you need to buff the floor with 100 grit sandpaper and then vacuum then poly again.

And it's very hard work! I would say, work out ALL the materials you will need, it might be cheaper to get a professional in, especially with rates like that. Also ask how many coats they put on the floor, most will say three, but that includes the sealer. Also, remember matt and satin are more expensive than glossy, gloss finish is more hardwearing than the other two but show up all the marks.

Basically I think that unless you've got a high end property, don't worry too much about the floorsanding being too perfect. Most people don't see floors the way I do, and as long as the floors are polished, they couldn't really care less if there were sander marks in the floor.

Hope that helps you a bit.

 

[Aceyducey]

Whitt,

While it looks easy to sand a floor, remember that this is skilled finishing work & a mistake here could cost substantially more to fix while also hitting the value of your property.

Why not work with a pro the first time, learning the skills from them. Then do it yourself on the next place if you're confident enough.

Maybe you can justify some of the cost as an educational expense

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[Kevmeister]

I visited a relative recently who had done their own floors. They did not use a drum-type floor sander but instead did it all with a small hand-sander. Obviously the time/effort in doing so would have been substantially greater.

I have never prepared/painted a floor before, but it does leave me wondering whether the use of big drum floor sanders is critical to the success of the job, or whether they are simply a time-saving tool so that professionals can get their job done in the minimum of time (leading to more/bigger profit).

In the case of my relative, her floors looked pretty damn good, but not great. The mistake she made was not being meticulous enough with the cleaning up prior to painting. [Many] flecks of dust were visible in the finish.

I don't know what a professional does to combat this, but I was thinking you'd want to thoroughly (very thoroughly) vaccuum and perhaps even go over the floor with a tack cloth prior to coating.

 

[whitt]

Queen Bee
that quote @ $21 p/m was for 3 coats of polyurethane and a sand

 

[Queen Bee]

Floorsanding

My opinion is that it is critical to use a drum sander to sand a floor, anything larger than a bathroom should have a drum sander over it. It has nothing to do with saving time and more profit - it is the quality of the finish that is achieved. I have seen floors that people have done themselves with a small sander over a large area and the finish they achieve is not as good as they would get with a drum sander. Not because they are inexperienced in using the drum sander, even a professional would not get a good result using a small sander because of the pressure that you would have to apply - and the inconsistencies in the pressure that you applied. Does that make sense?

It is quite possible to get an acceptable finish from a non-professional, but if you do it yourself you will come to appreciate why alot of people would rather get a professional in. It's hard work!

As to the dust specks in the finish. Floorsanding should always be the last job of an renovation. Also renovate from the top down. Ceilings, walls, floors. You should vacuum thoroughly. If the house is particularly dusty and you're having trouble with dust settling, trying vacuuming then wait half an hour then vacuum again. Get a clean white towel and walk over the floor with it. Be careful tacking, find out what kind of polyurethane you are using, it could be waterbased, spirit based (moisture-cure) or oil based. This will determine the tacking agent to be used. If you use the wrong solution on your cloth then you could end up ruining your finish.

Also, a final tip. If you have contacted your Floorsander through the newspaper or Yellow Pages, etc., and not a referral, ask him if he has a guarantee. If something goes wrong or you're not satisfied - will he come back and fix it.

P.S. Your finished floor should be inspected from standing position, you do not need a large magnifying glass, high powered spotlight and you should not crawl around on the floor looking for specks of dust. (We've seen it all!!)

 

[Dan]

I'll be attempting my own sanding eventually when I get to that stage. I've helped do some before.
I've been reading plenty of DIY instructions.

Some helpful tips I recalled :
First coarse sanding done diagonally to even the floor, subsequent medium and fine sanding along the floorboards.
After vacuuming between sandings use a slightly damp mop over the floor to pick up extra dust.
Putty up large defects before final sanding..apparently the dust working its way into the putty can help to blend it in.

 

[Brenda Irwin]

I once bought a house in which pets had been allowed to piddle on the carpet.
First I removed the carpet & liner but the smell was still there.
I washed the floorboards but the smell was still there.
I bought a cheap belt sander $109 & hooked it up to a dust extractor & sanded for 4 days (almost the whole 2br house), but the smell was still there.
I bought a couple of 4ltr cans of Wattyl Estapol Easy Clear Floor Finish & a lambswool applicator & put two coats down. This stuff dries FAST so slop it on straight from the can & spread it quickly.
GUESS WHAT? The smell was gone.
Purchase price $50K. Bank revalued after interior painting & polish to floors = $65K. Tenanted immediately at $130pw
Cheers Brenda

 

[ndavy]

As an amateur I have done a whole floor of a 2 story house and I found it quite easy, although its a messy job - dust, laqueur etc. I hired a drum and detail sander from kennards for about $100. I have also done a single room with a hand sander. You do have to be quite strong to operate a large drum sander.

I found that the finish wasn't as good as when a professional does it. I found that I also had trouble getting out blemishes in the wood - profs would probabyl find it easier.

DIY is very cheap - about $300 for a house- but not as high quality. Professionals cost a lot more.

In the end its all about how much you want to spend.

Davo.

 

[astroboy]

I've done a couple of places in the past, one was pine flooring and that was ok. The last was hardwood and that was hard work had to sand alot as the boards were quite rough.

Hired a drum and edge sander but you do have to be careful with the heavy paper, it is very easy to produce hollows if not careful.

As far as the finish goes I used Tung Oil on both jobs and loved the results, I feel timber is better 'fed' than sealed with a hard impervoius surface and scratches and marks are easily repaired with Tung Oil.

astroboy

 

[plainsong]

Astroboy thank you for the info about the Tung oil, I just had a
floor scraped and the glued rubber backed carpet removed -
still needs sanding to get the rest of the rubber off but I was wondering what to do with the floor afterwards,as I dont like the high shine effect -Tung oil sounds more mellow.. could I ask did you apply it with a brush or roller or doesnt it matter?
Thanks,

 

[astroboy]

Hi plainsong
I applied it with a lambswool applicator that fits over what looks like a broom handle with a T-piece timber end, they will have them with the applicators at bunnings or the like. I think you can clean the lambswool between coats, however I didn't, just used a new one for each coat.
The tung oil is very easy to apply and gives a nice satin finish. I think it was a Feast-Watson (?) product that I used.
astroboy

 

[plainsong]

Thanks very much Astroboy..

Sound like just the very thing for this floor....you have solved my problem!!

 

[Kevmeister]

plainsong:

Cabots (and presumably other mfrs) do a satin or matt finish polyurethane. Tung Oil or Danish Oil does look nice, though (I haven't used it on a floor, but on timber furniture).

 

[plainsong]

Thanks Kevin.. I 've used Cabots Danish on furniture, havn't used

any of the oils on floors yet , so im looking forward to seeing

what happens,

Best regards,

 

[RPI]

I have used both tung oil and poly.

1. Tung oil is neccessary in areas of extreme temperatures, as poly doesn't allow the floor to expand and contract and this can cause the floor to crack.

2. Tung oil looks great but may not last as long as poly in heavy traffic areas.

3. Tung oil can be spot repaired, ie if you put a hole in it from furniture rubbing etc. you can sand that spot, re oil it and you won't notice. Poly will require the whole room to be redone to not notice it.

4. If you use a 2 part urethane like most professionals use you get a much harder wearing and better looking finish than your premixed.

4. Sanding is quite easy if you start rough and work your way to fine. Even if you put a mark in it fi you progress throough to fine it is unnoticeable. Is very very messy and hard work though.

Darryl

 

[plainsong]

Tung oil is sounding better and better,,

perfect for what Im looking for I think..

Thanks very much guys,,