secrecy

[brains]

Hi all,

I asked as part of another post why so much privacy when it comes to disclosing locations of forumites' IPs and the response was, lets say, less than enthusiastic.

So i decided to create a new thread and ask again and see if there are any forumites that are willing to answer the following question:

What are the pros & cons of not disclosing the locations of IPs on this or any forum ?

I can offer my own thoughts (but im relatively new at this game)

Pro:By publicising as much as possible the locations of IPs you can create additional demand in the area your IPs are located and therefore increase the price in the area. (even at a minimum, a negligible amount is something)

Con: As previously posted by bribie,If you are looking to purchase properties you might like to keep queit as you dont want additional competition. But surely not everyone is looking in the same price range, in the same area with the same investing strategy so that would exlude a lot if not all the competition.

 

[Michael Croft]

Hi Brains,

Sorry I missed your original post on locations of IP's and I've been a tad busy. This is a public forum and understandably many here are guarded about their personal lives.

Money is the greatest taboo. People judge you more by how much money you've got than your sexual preferences, politics or religion. Try talking money/investment with extended (even close)family.

As you progress up the financial success ladder not only do you change your solicitors and accountants to cope with the increase in wealth and complexity but friends change too.

It doesn't matter what you post about what and where you are doing IP's as there are more good deals than we can handle. Moreover here's something to chew on; of the motivated people who attend investment seminars (a statistically small number) less than 1% actually apply what they have learnt. Of the people who buy investment books (again a small number) less than 10% read past the first chapter.

Doesn't tell you too much I know but it's a start.

Regards, MC

**This post has been edited after thinking about Sim's last post and questions about privacy/security issues

 

[JoannaK]

Originally posted by brains

Con: As previously posted by bribie,If you are looking to purchase properties you might like to keep queit as you dont want additional competition. But surely not everyone is looking in the same price range, in the same area with the same investing strategy so that would exlude a lot if not all the competition.

There have been a few instances on the old forum (before my time I've been told) where people have been open about good deals they are about to purchase only to have another forum member go and purchase it.

People don't always look for specific price ranges or areas, they simply look for a good deal that stacks up well, so this would include any area.

I've got no qualms discussing where current IPs are and where I'm currently looking for new opportunities, but I wouldn't be mentioning any specific deals until they're done.

As Michael said, money is a taboo topic, and people are judged more by how much money they have than anything else, and I would suggest that IP's are the same.

How many properties one has and in what areas they are is really of no consequence - more importantly is the strategy one adopts and whether or not they are reaching their goals.

 

[Glenn]

Hi Brains,

Did you ever go to hotcopper.com.au before it was closed down? It was full of people spreading possibly price sensitive information of dubious integrity about real and no so real companies....nothing like the community that has evolved since the Somers family created their first forum for property investors. After seeing both forums, I definitely see both points of view...I have friends that will not discuss with me how much they pay for property/structure finance/like to buy and I also have friends who will tell me everything about every deal they do.

Glenn

ps...Mt Lawley and West Perth ROCK!!

 

[tonyd]

Originally posted by Glenn

ps...Mt Lawley and West Perth ROCK!!

So that's where I should be looking!



Tony

 

[Glenn]

Ahhh Tony.....I am but a Pup with anger! Long way from being a master, may never be a guru!

In the last 5 years, I have been lucky enough to meet 3 people that have become millionaires through long term property investment.....2 of them made it through purchasing 1 and 2 bedroom flats with the other going via commercial property but the common theme seems to be: buy as close to the beach or the cbd as possible and let the market move your mountain an inch every year rather than thrashing yourself to save a molehill in cash each year, never sell, fix rather than replace.

Glenn

 

[ocean view]

Point taken with the CONS: section Brains. thank you for your feed back again

What Bribie aka "ocean view" was guilty of in the previous post re(" ip's in qld") was not giving enough information. Being new to the forum I was not sure on how much is to much. There is also a factor yes I have property there "bribie island" & intend to purchase a lot more over the next 2 years. My purchase prices however range from $160k to $1mil. All types, but mainly land. I have purchased the odd home this year as well.
Doing pretty well on all factors exepted for rental return , but this will turn around in two years.

But ,,brains has asked the question why keep things a secret?
I surpose there is a number of reasons. Maily financial profit !! Due to Certern stages? u could go on & on. But reading the multitude of different types of investors on forum I guess it won't make much difference to ocean view. The great thing on investing we all have a choice on what to do & when to do it! It is part of the exitement.

I agree with Glenns? comment re buy" near water & CBD" it works for me.
Sorry for any anger caused from non disclosure on previous , will attend to that in future!

Cheers ocean view

 

[Sim]

I don't tell people details of my investments because it is none of their business !

I am happy to share concepts and generalities, but specifics are only shared with people who I trust.

This has nothing to do with ramping or with protecting my turf and everything to do with simple privacy.

 

[XBenX]

i wonder why everyone is debating this topic

each to their own (that goes for both this debate and whether you disclose details)

keep smiling

 

[Sim]

The reason the topic is debated is because people have differing expectations - as you can see brains admitted to not knowing what level of detail was "expected" by people when posting.

Some people expect privacy and get offended when people press for details - and of course some people give details freely and get offended when people don't give details themselves.

I think some tolerance is required - and some respect for people's privacy. Just because you don't care who knows what about your own details, don't assume that everyone else should not care either.

 

[XBenX]

Originally posted by Sim

I think some tolerance is required - and some respect for people's privacy. Just because you don't care who knows what about your own details, don't assume that everyone else should not care either.

um, thats what this is...

Originally posted by XBenX

each to their own (that goes for both this debate and whether you disclose details)

 

[Sim]

Originally posted by XBenX
um, thats what this is...

... and I was going to finish off my post by saying: "Each to their own". (ie. I was agreeing with you !)

 

[XBenX]

lol

I apologise again

Number of times XBenX has taken something in the wrong way today 99,849 (and rising as fast as the US's foreign debt)

 

[brains]

Great to see some feedback on this one.........

Michael, thanks for the dissertation on wealth, im doing just fine thanks, i dont think theres any problem with conspicuous consumption (i just sold my BMW, am looking for another and wear a $1500 Tag Heuer watch)

Some people justify being a tight arse with not being the ostentatious type, im not saying thats your style but ive seen it a lot of it and fair enough, each to their own.

But i think you missed the point of my question , i wasnt asking for specifics on peoples holdings or wealth, just generally, things like "i just picked up a great deal at so & so area, its a hot spot, have a look up there guys" I never see that sort of stuff on here and was wondering why.

Glenn,

I used to get on Hotcopper a fair bit and still visit Ozestock & Stockhouse now & then and yes, the posts are totally different with less of a how to (its already expected you know how to trade shares) and more info on specific shares, stuff like "QAN has huge buy market depth today, keep your eye on it" and lots of false info, but thats easy to sort out, just like it would be on here.

Anyway, thanks for the input.

 

[Sim]

Brains, one of the big differences with shares and property, is that it does not really matter all that much how many shares you as an individual investor own, or how many your friends own... generally a couple of individuals will not make all that much difference to the market - so telling someone else about a hot share is relatively harmless.

With property, there is a finite resource in a particular area. Individuals can make a difference ! If you were to go into an area where you can buy property at $40K showing a $100pw rental return, you might want to buy as many as you can. It won't take that long before you and other people (damn those wrappers ! ) have bought all the property and driven prices up significantly.

When there are millions of shares on offer, the impact of buying several thousand is minor compared to buying several houses in a market of only hundreds.

 

[brains]

Fair point Sim, but that doesnt stop posters on share forums trying to ramp up the price by constantly posting positive messages across all forums and the reverse for trying to push prices down, lots of day traders and the instos can have some effect.

Not to the same extent as property it must have some effect.

Dont know about you but i I know im not capable of buying whole suburbs of pos. cashflow property with 13% gross return, so if i find one i'll buy a few and then share with the forum.

 

[bbruham]

G'day All,

Doesn't matter one bit where these miserable people buy investment properties, they're just miserable shytes. Keeping all their information secret, counting all their assets nearly every night (Scrouges).
Miserable with their money and information. The amount of people
who read this website would amount to nothing compared to the amount of property buyers out there.
The locations investors buy is good for people not sure where to look when getting started.(And for us sticky-beaks)
When I started out I phoned the Somers to ask where would one go to invest in property,Ian Somers nearly had a stroke.
"The Wife" is another one who gives nothing away. Ask her about
where she buys etc and see what her reaction is.
As Glenns post said near the beaches and CBD.
I'm 150 metres from the water at Harbord beach, and 250 metres from the water at Dee Why beach.These are residential, I have one commercial at Chatswood ( Chatswood is a city with-in Sydney).These three properties have been valued at over one million dollars.
I live in a house( owned outright), at Narrabeen, near the beach.
If I can't afford investment properties near water then I won't
invest at all!

Bruce G.

Winners make it happen.
Losers let it happen.

 

[investor]

Originally posted by bbruham
G'day All,

Doesn't matter one bit where these miserable people buy investment properties, they're just miserable shytes. Keeping all their information secret, counting all their assets nearly every night (Scrouges).
Miserable with their money and information. The amount of people
who read this website would amount to nothing compared to the amount of property buyers out there.

Hi all

I'm with u 100% on this one bbruham I can't believe how secretive some of these guys are. I for one will tell u everything I know and if u learn something and r successful in a purchase I will be the first one to congratulate u. I get honestly happy when I hear that other people r successful especially if they have done what I have done and wish them all the best.

I will take u with me to an auction i'm interested in, and if u outbid me then more power to u. There will always be another good buy just around the corner.
I think what may play a role here is that we r in sydney and that we don't wrap properties at least I don't. Here in sydney i am interested in the eastern suburbs, anyone of those 10 or 12 suburbs will do me as long as it's a good buy. It's no secret that those areas r hot. U may be interested in the northern beaches good luck to u and i'm not gonna rush to chatswood anytime soon.

I think that guy that stole the sale of the other forumite is a bloody idiot.

All u wrappers out there u don't have to be so secretive to all the newbie wrappers, help them out a bit. Don't tell them about your best suburb or even your second best, tell them about your third or fourth best at least get the poor bastards started.
I'm sure if you have bought 20 or 30 IP's you have quite a few suburbs in your head.
I was in a forum I think mcnight's and a poor newbie had been to one of their courses or had bought a wrap pack and he asked on the forum which suburb he should start from because he was having trouble finding suitable properties. I was disgusted when I read the reply of those that sold him the pack.
" I can't tell u because then I will have hundreds of wrappers coming into my area "
Well tell him something !!!! I swear if new I would have told the poor bastard there and then.

For heavens sakes these 30 to 40K properties are a dime a dozen


Anyways that my 2 cents worth

Regards

 

[geoffw]

Hey, I have seen guys pipped at the post because the told someone about where a property was. I don't really think that's fair. You do all your due diligence, and know the area and its values well. You've worked the area for three years to get a good iadea of the prices. You pay for inspections, and perhaps take off work to go to the auction. You mention in a forum that you're going to an auction for a property at Rivkin- and ten people on the forum, who know Shareville, all turn up for the auction. You're outbid by someone who does not have an idea of what the area is like, but because he considers you an expert, bids.

I have been to auctions mentioned in the forum. Not to bid, but to learn. Auction details were not given- but it wasn't rocket science. I learnt from the auction, and I appreciate the knowledge that those people shared. I've posted questions about the auction after it finished. But I think it's ethical for me to be just an observer in such a situation. And, by not being in competition with the person who generously posted the information, I feel I will have the chance to continue learning from that person.

This has certainly been my experience to date. I'm continuing to learn from people who have vastly more experience than me. And I do not want to cut off that channel by doing the wrong thing by them.

 

[Sim]

So what exactly is it that you frustrated folks want to have spelled out for you ?

There is no "magic" suburb. There is no "secret" location. All the secrets have been let out long ago. Jan Somers tells you exactly where to buy. So does Paul Clitheroe. So does most of the other property investment books I've ever read. They do not usually name suburbs - they name features. Work it out for yourself ! Which suburb was good yesterday is not necessarily as good tomorrow. What was a dump last week is a gold mine next week.

Do you want the gurus to hold your hanky while you blow your nose too ?

Or do you just want me to tell the whole world about the latest deal that I am negotiating on before I complete the deal ?

What is it you actually want ?

Do you want the passwords to my online banking accounts so you can see how I've structured things ? What's more, do you want me to post that information on the forum so that everyone can "learn" from that knowledge ? How much is enough for you ?