Should I go to a Property Investment Seminar ?

From: Splinter Wood


I have reposted this in order to reach any new or less experienced people looking to gain knowledge in the property Investment Business.

The thread of this is continued in the 'Caveat Emptor' Page on this site.

Please not all seminars are like the one described. Just a note to help unaware searchers be more aware of unscrupulous organizations.
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I recently have been involved to check the validity of one of these so called 'Investment Seminars' where a close friend had recently signed up for a week long program and was convinced to sign and commit to paying over $15,000 dollars !

I was quite shocked and hence checked it out further. This course was run by the 'National Investment Institute'. Sound official ?? Sound like it's connected with a University or some quasi Government organization ?? I can assure you it is not.

The key speaker is Mr. Henry Kaye whom I do not know personally.

As a season property investor, investment advisor and training expert, I can offer my opinion to those intending to attend such a 'Seminar' that they should be very careful.

This is a lot of money for a one week course. If 1000 people attend (And they do) the total income is over $15,000,000.

Think about this. Yes, they have 'huge' expenses - but dear people you can get yourself a ticket to New York, attend an advanced course at Harvard for this kind of money.

Claims that you can make millions, and certainly some have, are certainly attractive and motivating to have you sign on but best put the process on hold and make any decision to pay up on hold until you are away from the 'excitement' and a little cooler in your thinking.

Amazing, these people have loans arranged and ready to go in case you can't afford it right now. If you can't pay cash think twice. If you can pay cash think 3 times and you probably will anyway. That's why you have that much cash !

It would appear these people are making far more from these seminars, than from taking their own advice. The strategies also perform exceptionally well when you have a good cash flow. A cash flow that is produced by a good job or good business - such as the one you are supporting when you pay for one of these seminars.

They claim they are not giving advice, Henry is not qualified etc etc. This removes his liability, and perhaps better worded, his responsibility.

A licensed investment advisor, accountant, Lawyer - are responsible for their advice and suggestions, and they can be taken to task over bad or misleading advice. The Henry Kayes of the word flit by these laws by not being licensed and with disclaimers to avoid this apparently 'minor' item.

Have you all got my point yet ??

A couple of finally quotes for those a little slower on the uptake :

"Those who can do, do. Those who can't - teach" (Please take this in context)

"Buyer Beware ! "

"If something sounds too good to be true, then it probably is"

Don't let this information be cold water on your dreams dear people. There are plenty of places where you can get good advice at reasonable prices ( like a few hundred dollars NOT $15,000 ++).

Plenty of courses run at local Tech colleges, WEA, and talking family and friends who been through all the property investment cycles.

You can have your dreams, reach your goals, and all without spending a fortune.

Good luck and please learn from the mistakes of others.

Dr A
 
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Reply: 1
From: David Robinson


Splinter,

This sounds like good advice to me. New investors or those wishing to put a toe in the water could also start very small in the market, ie 1-2 bed units in the burbs that cost them very little per week after rent even in today's market.

I did this 7 years ago. After having a (very average) property manager manage the property for 3 years and then take 8.5% letting fees, 8.5% management fees, postage and petties, property condition report fees, inspection fees out of one month's rent, I decided to buy myself a copy of the residential tenancies act and promptly send my agent a letter giving them 30 days notice of termination of the agreement. The difference in cashflow was amazing. I was then able to negotiate a $10/wk rent increase from my tenant.

3 years later, the tenant moved out. The carpet was wrecked and the blinds needed replacing and the unit needed painting. $2300 later I had a virtually new looking unit that was covered by the increased cashflow that I had garnered from managing the property myself.

Even more remarkable is the fact that I was able to manage this property, plus 2 others in Perth (bought at a later date) while living in Sydney with no mobile phone and no credit card. I found that good communication and prompt attentiveness to my tenants' needs assisted in facilitating good business relationships with my tenants. This must have saved me at least $100 per week and made the difference between a pos/neg gearing situation. It is so true the way that Kiyosaki says that as soon as you are digging into your pocket to fund an investment, it is not good. The skills and confidence learnt from managing these properties also helps me in other areas of life

Dave
 
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Long distance property management

Reply: 1.1
From: Paul Zagoridis


Well done David

Can you explain more clearly how you manage your properties in Perth from Sydney (maybe start a new thread)?

Specifically how you found tenants, organised repairs, managed keys, etc

That would be a great addition to the archive.

Paul Zag
Dreamspinner
WealthEsteem coming soon at...
http://wealthesteem.dyndns.org/
 
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Investment seminars and advisers

Reply: 1.1.1
From: Michael Croft


Hi Dr A,

Whilst not disagreeing with you on your HK stance, the vast majority investment advisers operate from the play it safe/risk minimisation model - managed funds are all the go. This is not exactly conducive to the generation of wealth, but then you don't get sued for being average do you.

My point being that the 'legitimization by regulation' of CFP's has produced a system designed to keep all investors they come in contact with safe and average. As we know most 'investors' advised by such will retire to a very modest existence.

We need people to push the boundaries of investment returns (with the associated risks minimised), but not at $15k a seminar.

Michael Croft
 
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Long distance property management

Reply: 1.1.2
From: David Robinson


Hi Paul,

To manage the properties from Sydney for the 2.5 years I was there, I did the following:

1. Gave all tenants the name of an emergency contact in Perth and my home number in Sydney.

2. To find tenants (twice), I engaged the services of a property manager and paid them 1 week's rent as a letting fee and all advertising.

3. My father in law had a spare set of keys.

4. Repairs (once) were organised by a tradesman that I had organised to do some reno work prior to my departure. Quality properties (size not important) are soooo easy to let and then manage as they don't need repairs very often. Once I had ascertained that repairs were necessary, I called the tradesman to make him aware of the issue and give him:
a: Tenant's name
b: Tenant's address
c: Tenant's home and work phone numbers
d: My address so he can send the bill
The tradesman is then requested to call the tenant as soon as possible to let them know that they have been contacted in relation to their query (regardless of whether or not they can schedule a time for the repair). From the tradesman I get his/her bank account details for direct funds transfer (I don't operate a cheque account and hate going into branches) to pay the bill when it arrives. The next day, I call the tenant to make sure the tradesman has contacted them.

5. Never arrange a lease without a direct debit form for rent payment and be upfront about this one - it is not negotiable. If the rent is late by more than 12 hours, get on the phone to let the tenant know that there is a problem - quick confident communication heads off a lot of problems, eg..Bob, it looks as though your bank (easy 3rd party target to not make it look like you are accusing them of not paying rent) has stuffed things up with the rent payment, so I have emailed you a copy of my bank details and if you could make a manual deposit by tomorrow that would be great!


I am by no means one of the gurus here and I am a long way from making the first million but by applying some basic customer service skills and knowledge garnered from many books and this site, managing my own properties has proved to be less than onerous and resulted in good savings.

Later this year I would like to attend the introductory course in Property Management offered by REIWA and would like feedback from anyone that has completed this type of course.

Dave
 
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RE: Long distance property management

Reply: 1.1.2.1
From: Duncan M


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Dave,

Great advice, I made a few notes from your post. Thanks.

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Dave,


Great advice, I made a few notes from your post. Thanks.




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RE: Long distance property management

Reply: 1.1.2.1.1
From: Gibson Nolte


Attn: David Robinson

David, I am a newbie in Perth looking for some people with local IP knowledge to bounce ideas off and talk about the local market with. Would you be open to an email correspondence?

If so, please drop me a line at countcoup@hotmail.com or shakespearience@hotmail.com.

Cheers,
Gibson Nolte
 
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Investment seminars and advisers

Reply: 1.1.1.1
From: Splinter Wood


Hi Michael,

Agree with your points also. As an Ex - Licensed Advisor, I had the displeasure to mop up quite a few messes where people were given poor or misleading advice. It is not pleasant to watch an elderly couple or anyone for that matter, who have virtually lost their lifes savings on some hairbrained scheme or investment sold by an unscrupulous or overly zealous advisor or salesman. Look at the recent Enron deal for similar results.

Unfortunately it is these people, the less experienced and less informed that end up suffering the most. They don't bounce back so easily.

For these types of people, the National Invest,ment Institute Seminars and H.K. type of advice, are NOT suitable. For the few who can benefit such as you suggest, you can and have gained from the 'experience' and now you are far wiser than before - good for you - really.

The lack of discrimination however, in selecting participants for these courses, is where the 'abuse' takes over. Hungry Salesmen, Partners or Associates convincing people they can benefit from such a program are perhaps reaching out too far out, and putting their own interests before those of their customers.

These participants are, in my opinion, lambs for the slaughter, and they pay dearly for putting their trust in the sales people and in those delivering the goods (advice) which they will never get to use.

This is not a situation where you can say 'but it changed my life'...as this was at the expense of many others. Bit like offering swimming lessons saying "Learn to Swim here - 80% are guaranteed to drown ! Step right up folks".

Anyway, I think we all agree on the arguments presented and now the work is look after the little guy next door who is not as aware as we are.

Regards to all.

Dr. A
 
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Long Distance Property Management

Reply: 1.1.2.2
From: Joanna K


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Hello Dave,

Great tips! Sounds like you've got everything covered there.

One thing I would like to mention though is paying the agent to lease =the property out for you.

I used to own a property about an hour and a half out of Sydney and I =couldn't get there to lease it each time it became vacant, so I too =would sign a casual letting with a local agent. What I did though, was =insist that the agent send me a copy of the application form from the =tenant so I could do my own reference checks. If the tenant checked out =to my satisfaction, then I'd instruct the agent to proceed. If they =didn't check out, then no go.

I know how other property managers operate, and to be honest, I don't =trust them a whole lot.

Kind regards

Joanna Karavasilis
Principal
THE RENTAL SPECIALISTS

PH: 02 9599 3363
FAX: 02 9599 3447
EMAIL: rentals@rentalspecialists.com.au
WEB: www.rentalspecialists.com.au


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Hello Dave,

Great tips! Sounds like you've =got everything
covered there.

One thing I would like to mention =though is paying
the agent to lease the property out for you.

I used to own a property about an hour =and a half
out of Sydney and I couldn't get there to lease it each time it became =vacant,
so I too would sign a casual letting with a local agent. What I =did
though, was insist that the agent send me a copy of the application form =from
the tenant so I could do my own reference checks. If the tenant =checked
out to my satisfaction, then I'd instruct the agent to proceed. If =they
didn't check out, then no go.

I know how other property managers =operate, and to
be honest, I don't trust them a whole lot.

Kind regards

Joanna Karavasilis
Principal
THE RENTAL SPECIALISTS

PH: 02 9599 3363
FAX: 02 9599 3447
EMAIL: rentals@rentalspecialist=s.com.au
WEB: www.rentalspecialists.com.au=


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RE: Long Distance Property Management

Reply: 1.1.2.2.1
From: Duncan M


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> I know how other property managers operate, and to be honest, I don't
trust them a whole lot.

Hi Joanna, can you expand on that a bit? :)

Regards,

Duncan.

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> I know how other property managers operate, and to be honest, I don't trust them a whole lot.


Hi Joanna, can you expand on that a bit? :)


Regards,


Duncan.




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RE: Long Distance Property Management

Reply: 1.1.2.2.1.1
From: Joanna K


Hi Duncan,

Happy too.

Property managers who deal with casual lettings do not give a damn. Once the property is leased - it's got nothing to do with them. They're not going to be bothered with problem tenants and repairs and the like. They just want their wage at the end of the week and they just want to tell their boss that they've leased x amount of properties and made x $ in letting fees this month.

I've started a new thread..choosing a property manager.


Kind regards
THE RENTAL SPECIALISTS

Joanna Karavasilis
Principal

www.rentalspecialists.com.au
rentals@rentalspecialists.com.au
 
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Reply: 2
From: Denis Backhouse


At risk of being "flamed" (because I am Geoff's part-time admin person), I suggest that anyone who is considering spending serious money on a seminar look at Geoff Doidge's website, re: his and Paul Eslick's seminars.

Geoff is totally independent ... sells nothing but information - and sound info. at that.

Additionally, he and Paul Eslick are totally immersed in their own property portfolios here in Brisbane, so they speak from years of experience.

Make sure you read the story of the bikies and the Hills Hoist ... Vintage Geoff Doidge, and a salutary lesson to all us wanna-be property managers!

Best regards,

Denis Backhouse

PS. I made $34 000 nett out of my first renovation last year, using Geoff and Paul's cookie cutter!
 
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