Should we fund barbiatric surgery

When it comes right down to it, we all have have something wrong with us.

Deal with it.
Since this thread is about obesity..I stay with this subject.

If someone really wants to lose weight,
they stop buying all the junk cr_ap
If they work, they leave all their money/credit cards at home, so they can't be tempted.

Grow a pair...and stop expecting a quick fix.

Stop with the excuses, pure and simple
Addictions are nothing but an excuse for not having will power
 
The evidence I have seen around the traps is that sleeves (rather than bands) end up saving public funds in reducing other health expenses when used for the morbidly obese who still have half a chance. So it really shouldn't be considered as costing anything unless someone can correct me?

It's a choice between two bad options and is as much for the benefit of the public hospital system as it is for the patient.

BTW, I am noticing an epidemic of obese dogs around the place. There should be no issues of self control or hunger there - it is up to the owner to give their dog adequate exercise and not excessive calories but so many owners can't seem to do it? This issue of normalising obesity in all it's forms is far bigger than it looks and depression would be a big part of it, right alongside the sedentary work most of us do these days... And so much time on the internet!

So it is no surprise that society has gone soft but the question remains of how best to rectify this? I'm not sure that getting Dickensian on people will really work particularly well but what other options do we have? Yet we pay our taxes so we don't have to see sick people dying on the streets in front of us.

There is a balance point in there somewhere that we need to find. Taxing cigarettes up the wazoo seems to have worked well so I would support the same approach for basically the soft drink and sweet / chip aisles in the supermarket - maybe a 50% GST on those. Then it will be the big food companies time to start squealing - after all they are the only people profiting out of all this so that's only fair...
 
Ok Simon, so what is the cure for addictions?

Depression is a completely different issue.

I don't think it is a simple matter of finding a cure. Telling people to have willpower probably won't change things. I suggest addictions can't be cured only treated. Much like a depressive illness needs treatment rather than telling someone to snap out of it. Hence the point I raised above.

Anyway, to save you some time I have copied a little bit of info for you from the Internet.

When treating addictive personalities, the primary or presenting addiction needs to be treated first. Only once the behavior is under control can the person truly begin to do any of the therapeutic work necessary for recovery.

Common forms of treatment for addictive personalities include cognitive behavioral therapy, as well as other behavioral approaches. These treatments help patients by providing healthy coping skills training, relapse prevention, behavior interventions, family and group therapy, facilitated self-change approaches, and aversion therapy.[35] Behavioral approaches include using positive reinforcement and behavioral modeling.[35] Along with these, other options that help with treating those who suffer with addictive personality include social support, help with goal direction, rewards, enhancing self-efficacy and help teaching coping skills.[35]

Another important skill to learn in treatment, which can be overlooked, is self-soothing. People with addictive personalities use their addictions as coping mechanisms when in stressful situations. However, since their addictions do not actually soothe them, so much as they provide momentary relief from anxiety or uncomfortable emotions, these individuals feel the need to use their addiction more often.[36] Thus, self-soothing and other mindfulness-based interventions can be used for treatment because they provide healthier coping mechanisms once the addictive behavior has been removed.[37] These strategies relate to the use of dialectical behavior therapy, another useful technique. DBT provides ways to tolerate distress and regulate emotions, both of which are challenging to someone with an addictive personality.[38] DBT may not be the most effective treatment for all substance abusers, but there is evidence that it is helpful for most alcoholics and addicts,[38] as well as in eating disorders,[39] and those with co-occurring conditions.[38]

Or we can just tell everybody to have more willpower and save a fortune ......
 
I don't think it is a simple matter of finding a cure. Telling people to have willpower probably won't change things. I suggest addictions can't be cured only treated. Much like a depressive illness needs treatment rather than telling someone to snap out of it. Hence the point I raised above.

Anyway, to save you some time I have copied a little bit of info for you from the Internet.

When treating addictive personalities, the primary or presenting addiction needs to be treated first. Only once the behavior is under control can the person truly begin to do any of the therapeutic work necessary for recovery.

Common forms of treatment for addictive personalities include cognitive behavioral therapy, as well as other behavioral approaches. These treatments help patients by providing healthy coping skills training, relapse prevention, behavior interventions, family and group therapy, facilitated self-change approaches, and aversion therapy.[35] Behavioral approaches include using positive reinforcement and behavioral modeling.[35] Along with these, other options that help with treating those who suffer with addictive personality include social support, help with goal direction, rewards, enhancing self-efficacy and help teaching coping skills.[35]

Another important skill to learn in treatment, which can be overlooked, is self-soothing. People with addictive personalities use their addictions as coping mechanisms when in stressful situations. However, since their addictions do not actually soothe them, so much as they provide momentary relief from anxiety or uncomfortable emotions, these individuals feel the need to use their addiction more often.[36] Thus, self-soothing and other mindfulness-based interventions can be used for treatment because they provide healthier coping mechanisms once the addictive behavior has been removed.[37] These strategies relate to the use of dialectical behavior therapy, another useful technique. DBT provides ways to tolerate distress and regulate emotions, both of which are challenging to someone with an addictive personality.[38] DBT may not be the most effective treatment for all substance abusers, but there is evidence that it is helpful for most alcoholics and addicts,[38] as well as in eating disorders,[39] and those with co-occurring conditions.[38]

Or we can just tell everybody to have more willpower and save a fortune ......

Sorry Simon, but all the gobbledegook in the world won't change my opinion. It is their behaviours which have them in their particular predicaments. Only when they change their behaviour (control oneself) can they overcome their addiction.
There are numerous information sheets issued by medical practitioners with regard to the effects of overeating. I see it as quite simple really. Heed the advice. Some people simply don't because in my opinion they are simply "WEAK" of mind.
 
Watched an interesting show yesterday..The Doctors

A 25 yr old daughter and her dad.
The daughter had always been overweight, and was 270 lbs at her heaviest.

The dad was 370 lbs and had the surgery.He lost 80 lbs and regained 10 lbs so far.
He has admitted on occassion he still overeats, until it makes him vomit.

The daughter considered a couple of years, of following her dad, and having the surgery...then declined.

Instead, she told herself, she didnt want to live the rest of life like this (overweight) and instead, changed her eating habits..and has lost 120 lbs (looks great now)

She was on the show with her dad, because he thought at 290 lbs he was 'pretty good'. She was begging him to change his eating habits, because she loved him, and wanted him to be there in the future.
 
Watched an interesting show yesterday..The Doctors

A 25 yr old daughter and her dad.
The daughter had always been overweight, and was 270 lbs at her heaviest.

The dad was 370 lbs and had the surgery.He lost 80 lbs and regained 10 lbs so far.
He has admitted on occassion he still overeats, until it makes him vomit.

The daughter considered a couple of years, of following her dad, and having the surgery...then declined.

Instead, she told herself, she didnt want to live the rest of life like this (overweight) and instead, changed her eating habits..and has lost 120 lbs (looks great now)

She was on the show with her dad, because he thought at 290 lbs he was 'pretty good'. She was begging him to change his eating habits, because she loved him, and wanted him to be there in the future.

thas awesome!!!

I keep on going on about people and their lack of personal responbility these days,

you cant force someone to eat less or cut down on whatever,

it has to come from within

thats why the politically correct term of "oh she is just horizontally challenged" or "she has a thyroid problem.........well stop eating thyroids" isnt going to work, you need to tell them they are FAT and OBESE, if they dont like it, then they will change, if not , then they are content with themselves
 
He has admitted on occassion he still overeats, until it makes him vomit.

If he is eating until he vomits, that again, is a psychological issue, not a health issue. Well, it's still a health issue, but psych first, health second.

This guy needs a psychiatrist first, nutritionist second.
 
thas awesome!!!

I keep on going on about people and their lack of personal responbility these days,

you cant force someone to eat less or cut down on whatever,

it has to come from within

thats why the politically correct term of "oh she is just horizontally challenged" or "she has a thyroid problem.........well stop eating thyroids" isnt going to work, you need to tell them they are FAT and OBESE, if they dont like it, then they will change, if not , then they are content with themselves

Yeah, this is unfortunately a very simple view of what is a very complex subject (human psychology/physiology).
 
thas awesome!!!

you need to tell them they are FAT and OBESE, if they dont like it, then they will change, if not , then they are content with themselves

I don't think shaming would work, in fact probably do the opposite, binge eating.

I thought this was good and aimed at obesity in USA

?Obesity remains a complex problem?part choice and free will mixed in with a smidgen of genetics, sedentary lifestyles and a whole lot of promotion and advertising of fast food, sugary food, high-caloric food and junk food,? Caplan said via email. ?It would be nice if guilt was the magic bullet to weight control. It isn't. Nothing is. It took a long time and a lot of bad habits to get the way we are in terms of size and, short of a pharmaceutical miracle, it will take public and heath policy attacking a lot of variables for a long time to slim us back down.?
 
I don't think shaming would work, in fact probably do the opposite, binge eating.

I thought this was good and aimed at obesity in USA

it worked for me! ;)

was at a very good friends place years ago,

I had brought a lady that I had just started to go out with,

went for a swim in his pool, and took my shirt off

and his older brother said "you look quite fit with your shirt on, but you are actually quite a lard ****" in front of everyone there,

was so damn embarassed, joined a gym the next day, lost 20% of my bodyweight, changed my diet, changed my lifestyle, ended up trying to become a bodybuilder before a business venture took priority!
 
it worked for me! ;)

was at a very good friends place years ago,

I had brought a lady that I had just started to go out with,

went for a swim in his pool, and took my shirt off

and his older brother said "you look quite fit with your shirt on, but you are actually quite a lard ****" in front of everyone there,

was so damn embarassed, joined a gym the next day, lost 20% of my bodyweight, changed my diet, changed my lifestyle, ended up trying to become a bodybuilder before a business venture took priority!

That's great.
 
If he is eating until he vomits, that again, is a psychological issue, not a health issue. Well, it's still a health issue, but psych first, health second.

This guy needs a psychiatrist first, nutritionist second.

Stomach pouch is very small, and can only hold so much before it comes back up.
That is..until they can stretch it over time, to hold more food.


Look at the Diet Industry...Weight Watchers, Lean Cuisine, Jenny Craig etc.
They have a life time of participants, because generally they won't keep the weight off.

Biggest Loser shows..when you read the follow ups..most have regained their weight.

When you look at most obese children, their parents are obese.
Most things revert back to 'family standards" with me...obesity rose when both parents were working...and when single parent families became the norm.

As some have stated, it is psychological. Self soothing/medicating....why?
What has changed? Too much disposable income to buy fast food (its become normal)
When growing up in the 60/70's, we didn't any more exercise than today's kids..and we weren't overweight. We just ate different, and we had 2 parents, with one staying home with us.

As much as I hate increased taxes...maybe it is due.
Imagine the outcry...but at least, they won't be able to say it costs more to eat junk food :)
 
I reckon we did exercise more when I was a kid in the 70s.

My mum wouldn't drive me anywhere so if I wanted to go somewhere I rode my bike or walked 2km to a bus stop.

I walked to and from school from about age 7. About 3km.

High school I rode 7km each way via monster hills. I did this as mum paid me bus fare whether I rode or bussed and that gave me extra pocket money plus I'd ride with mates.

This was the same as most of my mates from memory.

Must have been well over a hundred bikes in the racks at school. Just asked my two daughters and neither of their high schools had a bike rack.

Kids probably do a lot of organised activities and sports today but I'm guessing most of them don't cycle or walk like I remember.

Is this true for others?

I reckon I had tough parents. Soft drinks was for birthday parties and same with fast food. Now kids drink coke just because they are thirsty.

I sound like Grandpa Simpson but I'm only talking 30 years ago, seems like another age :)
 
When growing up in the 60/70's, we didn't any more exercise than today's kids..and we weren't overweight. We just ate different, and we had 2 parents, with one staying home with us.

Hi Kathryn, I agree with all that you've said, except this. Maybe it's different in Nova Scotia, but when I was growing up, we definitely did more exercise than kids do today (on average I mean).

We weren't sat inside all day watching telly or playing video games, we were always outside playing. Don't see many kids outside playing these days.

I'm sure one thing most of us can relate to is mum saying 'What are doing in here? It's a beautiful day, get outside!'
 
it worked for me! ;)



and his older brother said "you look quite fit with your shirt on, but you are actually quite a lard ****" in front of everyone there,

Thats pretty rude of this older brother. I am surprised your response was not one of anger and retaliation.
 
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