Sim: why the Removal of derivex Product Line thread and "troll" reason...

Cat09Tails said:
* The old Mgmt team and the new mgmt team... if i was to ask questions of the company, Jirek- to whom would I address them/ last week's team or this week's? And why are none of these people able to be found on the web? Given their credentials on the website, I thought they might have been all over the place.

Cat
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Executive management teams report to the CEO. Ask him. Better yet, use snail mail. Make it handwritten letter to be more personal. Take a calligraphy course and learn chancery to make it super personal. :)

But seriously, Cat, what's the point?

Most detractors have an issue with the viability of the business model, the terms and conditions, and/or the pro forma contract. If you have problems with all that, then what useful additional information would you gain by looking at inconsistencies of the website?

The only reason you would be concerned with the websites is if you think the business model, t&cs and contract is okay. Which I suspect you don't.

No dramas. Just an observation.
 
IMHO labelling a message with the response "Troll" just because it asks a tough question or expresses a contra view is not really on the money.

Also I live in Brissy ...so I would be hiding under the Storey Bridge and I guess my reference to the fact that Trolls live under bridges and wear funny hats in classic literature was lost on everyone here.
 
Dear All

As stated before I have no position on IFHL. If they work time will tell. If not why worry. End of Story.

I do have a position on Somersoft and Sim.

I am a moderator because I believe this forum provides sensible, balanced and unbiased opinion in a professional manner. It takes time to be moderator but I appreciate the learning I gain so I provide that time free of charge.

However the time I spend is nothing compared to the efforts of Sim in keeping Somersoft running, user friendly, stopping attacks from viruses, registering people, helping those with faults, you name it.

As well Jan Somers actually loses money in providing this forum. The Somers never promote via pop ups their books or software, they don't charge, they don't send spam to be on, etc....

Instead they fund the education of us all unconditional. But in today’s world they take on a level of liability for comments made here. How much? I don’t know but I do know when someone can sue a building owner when a cafe provides a chair that is deemed to be unsafe and that someone falls on their butt and sues for loses their libido and wins 100’sof thousands of $ (actual case Court in NSW) , I know I would not be doing it.

So in the end, if to maintain Somersoft as it is, free for all to come and to go, Sim and the Somers need to close a few posts (which a as percentage would have be less than 1% of all traffic) so I can be educated and learn for nothing. That’s ok by me and should be ok for everyone else.

If is a free web and a free site but has rules set by those who run it. If you don’t like that arrangement, exercise your freedom and refuse to visit.

Save your time, Sim's time and the Somers money.

Peter 147
 
You're missing the point nat_r ... the post was labelled a troll because A) it was asking a question that nobody here could reasonably answer, B) this is not the place to be asking Derivex questions - these should be asked of Derivex directly, and C) given points A & B, the only other conclusion is that the post was made to stir up emotion, to further speculation without fact, and/or to fan the flames about the topic.

There are plenty of tough questions that can be asked - but you have to ask them in the correct "forum" (ie the correct venue) - and I'm telling you all, for this subject, this is not it.

Likewise, expressing a contra view (as you put it), is quite acceptable and frequently exercised here, but the views expressed in this case have been little more than accusations of impropriety by the company in question, without a basis in fact.

I challenge you; if you have a question about Derivex - contact them, and report your findings to us; if you have a concern about Derivex - contact them, or the relevant authorities, and report your findings to us. But do not go dredging for slime on this company (or any other for that matter) on our forum - for that is what it looks like some of you have been doing.
 
The point Jireh, is that investing money is not all about numbers- sometimes, it's about people. A certainb real estate bus tour operator, was mentioned in another forum, and after some research was undertaken, it was shown that the business operator had been to jail for a large number of years, for fraudulent dealings with pensioners. He'd been mentioned in parliament, and this was documented.

The info provided, allowed people to make a more informed decision about the operations of the company. Researching companies and people, is something that is not unknown on forums. Many people check out ASIC and FIDO to find out some background information. Finding out, for example, that someone is banned from running a company- just as an example- and publishing that- linked to FIDO- would be a fairly normal thing, I would htink, and would certainly not have one - or a forum- liable to legal challenge.

Economic modelling is one thing- people are another. Inconsistencies in provision of information is merely another thing to take note of. It's just a part of research before one might invest money.

Anyway, I'm pleased that there has been fairly extensive dialogue on Derivex- lots of different perspectives and information provided :)

Cat
 
Cat & Nat - if you don't like the way this forum is run, go elsewhere.

If you have evidence of wrong-doing by a company, go to the police.

Nat - BTW your 'classic literature' reference is incorrect. Trolls 'classically' never wore hats & the bridge analogy dates from the late 17th century. Prior to that trolls were regarded very differently. Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll

Cat - Pot calling kettle black (and the kettle isn't black anyway).

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
What if....

Any one who looked like a troll, sounded like a troll and ond posted only on D.... threads be shot like a troll?

Sounds fair to me :D
 
Guys all I can say is I had plenty of questions about Derivex so I made an appointment and went to the office and sat with them last week.

They answered all my questions and I have since followed up with more questions over the phone this week. If you have questions I can only suggest you go and ask them in person

Ive enjoyed reading all the posts on this subject and I have agreed when Sim has stepped in as the threads all end up moving the same way. Im really looking forward to the outcome of the ASIC investigation....should be some good threads coming up either way it goes. :D
 
Wazza007 said:
Guys all I can say is I had plenty of questions about Derivex so I made an appointment and went to the office and sat with them last week.

They answered all my questions and I have since followed up with more questions over the phone this week. If you have questions I can only suggest you go and ask them in person

Ive enjoyed reading all the posts on this subject and I have agreed when Sim has stepped in as the threads all end up moving the same way. Im really looking forward to the outcome of the ASIC investigation....should be some good threads coming up either way it goes. :D
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Good on 'ya Wazza. I didn't expect them to be entertaining appointments and questions in the middle of the ASIC investigation. I think I might have to do that myself, if I can get time away from work and the kids. :):)
 
Sim said:
some of these threads are becoming potentially defamatory in nature, so in order to protect ourselves, we choose to take a tough stance on such things.
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Sim,

On several other forums, I have seen disclaimers along the lines of :

"The views and opinions expressed on this forum are those of the individual poster and not of (the forum provider). As such (the forum provider) assumes no responsibility for any comments made that may be viewed as offensive, defamatory, etc".

Is it not possible to implement a similar safeguard on SS ?

BTW - I'm not having a go at you. Merely offering a suggestion :)

T.
 
Cat09Tails said:
The point Jireh, is that investing money is not all about numbers- sometimes, it's about people. A certainb real estate bus tour operator, was mentioned in another forum, and after some research was undertaken, it was shown that the business operator had been to jail for a large number of years, for fraudulent dealings with pensioners. He'd been mentioned in parliament, and this was documented.

The info provided, allowed people to make a more informed decision about the operations of the company. Researching companies and people, is something that is not unknown on forums. Many people check out ASIC and FIDO to find out some background information. Finding out, for example, that someone is banned from running a company- just as an example- and publishing that- linked to FIDO- would be a fairly normal thing, I would htink, and would certainly not have one - or a forum- liable to legal challenge.

Economic modelling is one thing- people are another. Inconsistencies in provision of information is merely another thing to take note of. It's just a part of research before one might invest money.

Anyway, I'm pleased that there has been fairly extensive dialogue on Derivex- lots of different perspectives and information provided :)

Cat
Click to expand...
Sorry Cat, I'm going to have to bow out of this conversation. I didn't see your questions and quite frankly, I don't see what value the questions have to offer if you haven't done the research yourself or have a specific investment problem you're trying to solve. I agree with Sim in that a good forum is when people bring their hard-earned knowledge to the table. Otherwise, we're just fooling ourselves with what seems like intelligent debate.

My view on D is that there are many things that make you go "hmmmm....". Some laughable. Some tragic. The risks are present and if nothing, I've learned to think more clearly about financial and legal risks which are part of the investing journey. However, I'm going to wait and see until the point I have to decide whether I'm going to sign a contract. Then I'll decide.

See ya in other parts of the forum.

Happy investing!!
 
Sim,

Thank you for your efforts. I support the actions you have taken.

And to others, no, disclaimers don't necessarily work in a court of law if you ought to have known that something libellous or defamatory might have been published under your banner.

The miracle is that this site exists in the wildly productive and useful fashion that it does. I don't give tuppence ha'penny about D****** but I would certainly mourn the loss of the forum.
 
I'm completely behind Sim and his continued good work as administrator of this board. I think its a tough job and virtually impossible for him to keep everyone happy. Keep it up Sim........
 
Guys,

I'm with Quiggles on this one. I can't believe that so many people are so caught up in the whole d*****x thing. Personally, I now know they exist and will give it 6 months or so to see if it flies. In the meantime I don't give a toss, and will happily just keep reading all the actually informative threads on this forum. I only checked in on this one since I am completely behind SIM in his actions and wanted to see if he was copping too much flack, and from whom.

Anyway, off to read some real threads now...

Michael.
 
qaz said:
I'm completely behind Sim and his continued good work as administrator of this board. I think its a tough job and virtually impossible for him to keep everyone happy. Keep it up Sim........
Click to expand...
Ditto for me. I agree this forum adds a fair bit of work for Sim and even much more so ever since D came around. I especially like the other statements about the value of this forum being people bringing in what they KNOW. That's probably the most important part of this forum.

Thanks for all your efforts Sim.
 
Tandella said:
Sim,

On several other forums, I have seen disclaimers along the lines of :

"The views and opinions expressed on this forum are those of the individual poster and not of (the forum provider). As such (the forum provider) assumes no responsibility for any comments made that may be viewed as offensive, defamatory, etc".

Is it not possible to implement a similar safeguard on SS ?

BTW - I'm not having a go at you. Merely offering a suggestion :)

T.
Click to expand...

Tandella,

you are missing the point...

We don't WANT This forum to rely on a disclaimer.

The other property investing forum some people belong to seems to have degenerated into a free-for-all, due to their laissez-faire moderation attitudes.

This forum has always been the premier forum, due to it's strong policies and attitudes toward arguments and trolling.

I know it sounds simplistic to say "if you don't like it, don't participate", but that's really the heart of the matter.

You either like the way it's run, or you don't.

And anyone who's taken the moderation of the dx threads personally really needs to have a look at their posting practices.

I closed one of the threads after reading through it and determining that the thread was winding round and round and round and going nowhere and just getting angrier and angrier. I don't even know who was participating any more, it wasn't personal, it was circumstantial.

asy :D
 
Tandella said:
Sim,

On several other forums, I have seen disclaimers along the lines of :

"The views and opinions expressed on this forum are those of the individual poster and not of (the forum provider). As such (the forum provider) assumes no responsibility for any comments made that may be viewed as offensive, defamatory, etc".

Is it not possible to implement a similar safeguard on SS ?

BTW - I'm not having a go at you. Merely offering a suggestion :)

T.
Click to expand...

Tandella,

Defamation Law doesn't quite work like that. Have a read of the Defamation Act (by necessity I have had to). There's no subsection that states - "please disregard this act if material published contains legal sounding disclaimer".

Regards
Michael G
 
Hi Michael,

So are you saying that essentially disclaimers have little or no weight in the eyes of the law, effectively offering no level of immunity ?

T.
 

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