Sinking house!

Jacque

Jacque

Scenario: The house I'm considering purchasing has an uneven kitchen (benches not level) and cracking across cornices and part of the ceiling, as the concrete piers under the house have subsided somewhat, with dry weather (clay soil) over a period of time. The piers have also been packed at some time, and the building inspector can't really say whether or not there will be further movement. He advises to either pack them further up to try and "even" the problem, or get the particular piers rebuilt on a new foundation base. Sounds expensive :(

The house is about 25 yrs old, is single level with a DLUG underneath and is brick with timber floors. See ad here:

http://www.realestate.com.au/realestate/agent/ray+white+baulkham+hills/xrwbau/103001162

Has anyone had experience with this sort of problem before? Would like to hear any possible solutions...
Thanks in advance
 
Hi Jacque
It depends how hard it is to jack the house up. I know that one of the "reno kings" did this to an old queenslander a while back. He fixed the problem by using a car jack and repacking the piers.
It could become expensive if the brickwork(outer skin) footings are sinking too.
Hope this helps.
Simon
 
Hi Jacque

Jacking up a house is not a biggy if you do it yourself but its the redigging of the foundations in confined space is the biggy.

From your statement that it has already been packed out and needs it again it would indicate that the house is on very reactive soil and the foundations have not been dug deep enough to be below the influence zone.

You will also find that with a period of rain those piers will lift up and as a result the house will heave (go up and down) depending on the moisture content of the soil.

We had this happening in our house but have now underpinned the crucial peers down to rock (up to 3 meters down). Ended up pouring about 11m3 of concrete and setting up a whole lot of steel peers. Super stable now.

The thing is if ou don't do a proper fix on the place then each time it heaves the cracks will all reoccur.

here are some post on restumping (but with all that external brick work I would think its more than restumping)

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=25171

Good luck
 
It's a punt, Jacque.

You'd be angling to get the house for a lower price given the structural problems, and then you'd be hoping the remedial work is less than the price reduction.

As Andy, alot of the cost is in digging. If this is a potential PPOR and you don't miind the work, it could be a good buy.

As an IP, I'm not so sure.

Scott
 
I had another thought Jacque
There should be fairly obvious cracks in the external brickwork if the foundations are sinking. Look at the areas around windows and doors and corners of the building.
Simon
 
Thanks for the responses all, as they've been pretty helpful :)
Will be taking another look at the external brick walls before I make my decision on what price to offer.
 
Has anyone actually ever forked out for rebuilding/underpinning foundations in a brick house similar to this?
Just now got back the official written builder's report which had the following:

"Minor settlement cracks have developed in the external brickwork to
the left side.
These cracks have been caused by the differential movement of the
buildings footings over the years on reactive foundation material.
These areas should be monitored for further movement.
It is recommended that attempts be made to maintain the moisture
content of the soil around the property at a constant level to prevent
further excessive differential movement of the footings"

"Movement of the kitchen bench away from the right side wall and wall
and ceiling cracking to this area is indicating substantial foundation
movement and cracking. Rectify kitchen and see subfloor for
foundation repairs"

"A number of piers have subsided and moved due to the reactive clay
soil. Pack adequately and rectify floor levels. Monitor for future
movement and anticipate costs should replacement or underpinning be
required"

How does one maintain adequate moisture on a regular basis? Leave a dripping tap near the piers?! :confused:
 
Jacque said:
"A number of piers have subsided and moved due to the reactive clay
soil. Pack adequately and rectify floor levels. Monitor for future
movement and anticipate costs should replacement or underpinning be
required"

How does one maintain adequate moisture on a regular basis? Leave a dripping tap near the piers?! :confused:
Click to expand...

No don't run water or artificially wet the area because you won't be consistent and in the end wet one area more than another and end up with a worse situation.

Its best to concentrate on keeping it all consistently dry by installing drainage all round so that the moisture content of the soil is consistent.

Is the inspection report refering to the left as you look at the picture? If so tis is the high side of the house with the foundations the lowest. To me this would indicate creap down the hill. Most probably there is a retaining wall at the back of the house or even the house wall at the back of the garage acting as the retaining wall. Again if so this will put undue pressure on the building and it is most probably this area that would need to be addressed. Looks like the kitchen is located on top and at the back of the garage?

If this is the area that is creating the problem then it is somewhat easier to fix as there's plenty of head room.

But as depreciator has said as a PPOR ok as a IP maybe not as whilst rectification is done the palce would be empty.

Cheers
 
Is the inspection report referring to the left as you look at the picture? If so tis is the high side of the house with the foundations the lowest. To me this would indicate creap down the hill. Most probably there is a retaining wall at the back of the house or even the house wall at the back of the garage acting as the retaining wall. Again if so this will put undue pressure on the building and it is most probably this area that would need to be addressed. Looks like the kitchen is located on top and at the back of the garage?

If this is the area that is creating the problem then it is somewhat easier to fix as there's plenty of head room.

Cheers[/QUOTE]

No, the kitchen is actually, as you look at the picture, at the RHS in the back corner, where the ground is lower. I just went for another look at the property (its not far from where I actually live) and there are absolutely no external cracks on the brickwork bar one small one outside the garage. This would indicate that the foundations aren't as bad as what I thought?
The only thing that makes me a little cautious is that the building inspector, upon hearing that I wanted to put in a new kitchen straight away, advised against it "in case of further cracking" which would then affect the new kitchen.
 
I must admit Im just about to walk out the door - but the correct terminology for correcting this is "underpinning"

But you already knew that didnt you? :p Sorry! GL with it.

RJ
 
ramone_johnny said:
I must admit Im just about to walk out the door - but the correct terminology for correcting this is "underpinning"

But you already knew that didnt you? :p Sorry! GL with it.

RJ
Click to expand...

Yes, I did :)
But now I'm lost with your acronym. What's GL stand for?!!:confused: :)
 
Sorry Simon

I handn't seen your post it was in response to Jacque question ;)

Jacque You may also want to look at the quad that holds the fibro to the eaves. This cut at 45 degrees at the corners and if there are any gaps then the house is moving. From the gaps you can also tell which way it is moving.

I assume that this is all somewhat close to the auction so good luck which ever way you decide to go.

I would agree with the inspector re installation of kitchen or any cosmetic work to cracks the house needs to settle after any remedial structural work.

Cheers
 
Hi Jacque
Sorry about the claytons advice re keeping the foundations moist(that Scotty from backyard blitz told me a porky).:eek:
If you get a chance have a look at the surrounding houses to see if they are suffering too. I suppose you could door knock to ask if anyone else is having the same problem agood way to meet people and gather info.
Just a thought
Simon
 
When we were doing the pier inspection on the house we were having built, we were told by the engineer from the council who inspects them, the best thing to do to avoid house movement is no garden beds whatsoever around the perimeter of the house and to pave/concrete at least a metre wide pathway all around. This ensures there is minimal fluctuation in the moisture content of the soil surrounding the piers. We are on clay too.

I guess this would also mean redirecting any water from sloping gardens away from the house so there is no build up.

Hope this helps.
 
perky29 said:
So whats the goss Jacque? Did you buy it, or was it too much?
David
Click to expand...

I missed out to a very emotional group of buyers who paid $553K for it! :eek:
Dave, I know you can appreciate how much they overpaid :)
Never mind, I did my figures and had my walk away price. Didn't even get to bid on this one! Maybe next time......
 
Jacque said:
I did my figures and had my walk away price. Didn't even get to bid on this one! Maybe next time......
Click to expand...
Don't have to tell you Jacque that there will be another one (or a couple :)) just around the corner.
 
Jacque said:
I missed out to a very emotional group of buyers who paid $553K for it! :eek:
Dave, I know you can appreciate how much they overpaid :)
Never mind, I did my figures and had my walk away price. Didn't even get to bid on this one! Maybe next time......
Click to expand...
Hi Jacque
Interesting result. How much over your estimations was the sale price?
Kind regards
Simon
 
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