Smoke alarm compliance

[alplant]

I think it's more to do with avoiding litigation than anything else.

I could be wrong (I'm sure someone will tell me if I am ) but I think in that terrible Childers backpacker's hotel fire the landlord was eventually held responsible (at least partly) for the fire because the smoke alarms weren't working.

I suspect it's that sort of fear that set off what is now a rather lucrative little business, getting the best part of $100 a pop for poking a fire alarm with a stick and maybe replacing the odd battery, which the tenants immediately take out and put in their TV remote control or something. Well that's what ours did anyway. But ... if the unspeakable happened we could say Smoke Alarm whatever company checked that they were all working and we have the paperwork to prove it.

 

[depreciator]

Yep. It has become a business. But insurance companies will do their best to weasle out of a claim, so it's better to toe the line.

 

[Ed Barton]

I think it's more to do with avoiding litigation than anything else.

a bit to do with insurance companies too. one of my parents properties had a house fire (wooden Queenslander - burns to the ground in no time) if it wasn't for the prominence of smoke detectors the damage would have been in the 100's of thousands rather than 10. in the old days of no alarms the insurance company would have been on the hook for a lot more money.

 

[NBS]

In a previous post i indicated I was going to be doing my own testing etc.
However I'm reading the agents agreement and some other papers he sent to re my alarms will be $49.00 a year unlimited visits. Did not see anything about the costs of batteries, but will check this.

If this is the cost I will let them do it not worth my time as I see it.

Brian

 

[wylie]

We have also been given a brochure for $49 (probably same company). I am thinking of going over to the "dark side". $49 is pretty cheap .

 

[NBS]

We have also been given a brochure for $49 (probably same company). I am thinking of going over to the "dark side". $49 is pretty cheap .

I agree $49.00 is a good price, and I'm looking at it basically as one less thing I have to look after. I can just manage the PM and free up more of my time.

Brian

 

[alplant]

Uumh, we are paying $75 through our RE.

 

[eyespy]

is there a smoke alarm company doing maintenance for less than $99 in sydney ? anyone know ?

 

[Tesla Rules]

smoke alarms

It is now end Oct
Anyone found a smoke checking company doing inspections for under $99 in Sydney?

I have a duplex and wanted a discount for the second property to be done at the same time - told "no" pay twice !

wot a rort

 

[Doovalacky]

Ask how they test the smoke detector.
Just pressing the test button is not sufficient. A can of "smoke" is required to do a proper test. Most electrical wholesalers carry it these days and not expensive.

 

[josko]

Another example of our "Nanny State."

Yet I do have to comply or my tenants might not "think" to do it for themselves...

Regards JO

 

[elsLan]

I think that fellow LL's are somewhat quick to defend their justification of this whole why should I issue without actually looking at the bigger picture or even at the relevant legislation.

Being from Victoria I can confirm the following-
It is the Property Owners responsibility to ensure-
1- the property is fitted with the appropriate number of alarms
2- each alarm is working and not expired
(alarms have an expiration of 10 years- there is a date printed in each unit)
3- that the alarm complies with Australian standards
(not all alarms do)

Did you know that simply pressing a button to test and ensure operation does not mean the alarm actually will siren if there is a fire?
Any alarm that contacts with a battery will siren- it's based on a simple electric circuit

After meeting with my PM at a rouitine inspection, we discussed the maintenance of the smoke alarms in my IP's. I questioned the cost of the annual certification and was provided with the information above. In addition to this, the company servicing alarms also tests each alarm with artificial smoke as well as the decibel level as over time this diminishes.
My PM is highly informative, has fantastic industry knowledge and informs me as a duty of care to both my tenants and property of changes in my responsibilities. One comment she made in particular sticks with me and is one of the reasons I outsource my alarms- (pretty much the below) "Liz, I can test the alarm and press a button but I am
Not an Electrician- I can't tell you if the unit is actually working or if it will do the job as intended when required and I am not going to take responsibility for something for which I can not honestly guarantee especially where not only your investment is concerned but also the lives of others"....
The smoke alarm company also utilizes batteries of which are high quality and uniquely packaged to their company therefore in the event of where an alarm has been certified and an incident occurs- tampering is very evident and can be proven in a court of law.
Really who would a jury believe- a tenant who suffered burns and injury claiming he didn't touch the smoke alarm or remove batteries during excessive cooking or a 'greedy' landlord who swears the alarm was working and tested with no real proof?

If anything was to occur in any of my properties I know a) my insurance obligations and responsibilities are fully satisfied in relation to essential service and regulatory law.
B) if anything was to happen I have an external company to be deemed at fault or my tenant can be proven liable- not me!!
C) it's tax deductible- for the sake of in my case $80 annually it's peace of mind and no headaches.

Wait till the upcoming legislation is finalised for the mandatory installation of carbon monoxide alarms in every residential premises (yes your own home too) in Australia- they cost $90 each and need to be certified also!

Ultimately it's each owners prerogative- however wouldn't you rather make an informed and educated decision instead of one based purely upon emotional reaction to your income? If you're not sure- ask why and what and how!!
Your PM isn't just trying to do less or being lazy- there is a method to the so called madness. Lol protect yourself and your investment- if your property goes up in ashes and the insurance won't pay due to your lack of certified operational smoke alarms- $80 doesn't seem like much in comparison to all the loss of income,equity and in worse case an additional tenant court claim against you!

It all comes down to your relationship again- if you trust your PM and they know their stuff and can answer your enquiries..... Things would be a lot easier and so much more sense would prevail!!

 

[Aaron_C]

The requirements for smoke alarms etc depends on what Classification the building falls under in the BCA. Most residential IPs are class 1 so the requirements are far lower - especially for older properties

 

[cadence]

We have also been given a brochure for $49 (probably same company). I am thinking of going over to the "dark side". $49 is pretty cheap .

Hi Wylie, do you mind sharing what company this is? Please feel free to PM me if you prefer.

Thank you in advance.

 

[wylie]

Smoke Alarm Solutions

 

[Burramys]

My PM has sent me a form about smoke alarms, essentially washing the PM’s hands of any liability. Some points in the form have full compliance, such as the alarm being the the right place, changing batteries, and cleaning the alarm. One point is possibly suss. “Ensuring that batteries are replaced at change of tenancy (Residential Tenancy Act)". BTW, in Victoria it’s Tenancies, not Tenancy. I cannot locate any reference to changing batteries at the start of a new lease in the RTA. Can someone please advise me if there is such a provision?

 

[Sez]

I know that the battery replacement is generally offered as "in accordance with Australian Standards 1993, AS 3786 Section 2.3"

I couldn't remember any specific clause stating that that the batteries in smoke alarms should be changed at the beginning of each new tenancy under the Residential Tenancies Act, however, I can't remember the entire act so had a quick check! Nothing.

I imagine they're probably trying to squeeze that in under the Owner providing the property in a state of good repair area of the Act.

However, it really is the landlords responsibility to provide and maintain fire safety equipment required for the dwelling;

http://discover.realestate.com.au/r...and-how-for-smoke-alarms-in-rental-properties
http://www.mfb.vic.gov.au/Community-Safety/Home-Fire-Safety/Smoke-Alarms.html

Basically you, as a landlord, have to provide working smoke alarms for your rental property. Should the worst case scenario occur and it is found that you have either failed to install or maintain smoke alarms at the property you would have breached your legal requirements as a landlord.

While it isn't in the RTA it is law in Victoria that they be installed & maintained. I do wish they would add it to the Tenancies Act as it would make it a little more clear-cut.........

Well - that's my research for the afternoon!

 

[wylie]

In Queensland the landlord changes the battery and tests the alarms at the start of each tenancy... not sure of other states, and between the start of a tenancy or the signing of a new lease for a further tenancy (same tenants) the tenants themselves are responsible for changing the batteries.

Please check this, but this is my recollection (without checking it).

 

[fernfurn]

Whenever the time comes around to check these I always send an email to my tenants saying I will come and check the alarm at their convenience, o r they could check it is working and email me saying they have checked it and it is working properly. They always email me saying they have checked it. One time one didnt reply so I told the agent to email them (with the respective time frame) that I was coming in to check it on xxxx date. They emailed me that night they had checked it. Obviously I print out their email and keep it.

 

[Sez]

Our agency actually sends out a slip for tenants to sign when we send out their routine inspection letters. They sign a slip to say that they have tested the alarm and it is in working order, this is in addition to the detector inspector offer. You can never be too careful!