Smoke Detectors
- Thread starter Brady
- Start date
We self-manage and follow the rules laid out under the RTA - http://www.rta.qld.gov.au/Renting/During-a-tenancy/Maintenance-and-repairs/Smoke-alarms
We change batteries and test the alarms at the start/renewal of a tenancy, make a note on the lease and the entry condition report to state this has been done. It is then up to the tenant to change the batteries and report any malfunction.
I have more faith in doing this myself than handing it over to a company who is prepared to "call as many times a year to make sure your property remains compliant". What does that mean? Unless they get a report that the smoke alarm is malfunctioning they will call in once a year, change the battery, test it and charge you $75 for that five minutes of work. I wonder how many houses they visit more than once a year?
The PM/agent/lessor needs to test it at the renewal of a tenancy. I believe agents take a week's rental for renewing leases. Can they not cover the cost of their handyman for this five minute job once a year if the PM cannot get on a step ladder and do it (high ceilings fair enough I suppose). Saying they are not qualified to change a battery is just silly, but I suppose if they cannot carry a step ladder and do this at the start/renewal of the tenancy, that is up to them. When a new tenant goes in they are taking a week's rent plus GST (some agencies take two weeks plus GST for new leases). Surely they can pay their handyman $30 for the five minutes this job would take at the start/renewal of each tenancy. It is the tenant's responsibility to test it during the tenancy and replace the batteries.
This is the Queensland rules. Google for the appropriate rules for your own state.
PS. We do this also because we live local to our IPs. I just don't like the "scare" tactics implied in this notice you received.
We change batteries and test the alarms at the start/renewal of a tenancy, make a note on the lease and the entry condition report to state this has been done. It is then up to the tenant to change the batteries and report any malfunction.
I have more faith in doing this myself than handing it over to a company who is prepared to "call as many times a year to make sure your property remains compliant". What does that mean? Unless they get a report that the smoke alarm is malfunctioning they will call in once a year, change the battery, test it and charge you $75 for that five minutes of work. I wonder how many houses they visit more than once a year?
The PM/agent/lessor needs to test it at the renewal of a tenancy. I believe agents take a week's rental for renewing leases. Can they not cover the cost of their handyman for this five minute job once a year if the PM cannot get on a step ladder and do it (high ceilings fair enough I suppose). Saying they are not qualified to change a battery is just silly, but I suppose if they cannot carry a step ladder and do this at the start/renewal of the tenancy, that is up to them. When a new tenant goes in they are taking a week's rent plus GST (some agencies take two weeks plus GST for new leases). Surely they can pay their handyman $30 for the five minutes this job would take at the start/renewal of each tenancy. It is the tenant's responsibility to test it during the tenancy and replace the batteries.
This is the Queensland rules. Google for the appropriate rules for your own state.
PS. We do this also because we live local to our IPs. I just don't like the "scare" tactics implied in this notice you received.
Was thinking the same. If someone has a problem forking out $75pa to ensure a property complies with a statutory requirement, then maybe PIing is not their game.
Maybe money under the matress????
I don't disagree with either of these comments, but until it is the law that we must outsource this job to a "professional", we will continue to do it ourselves. I know it has been done. I know we also take on the risk, but we make very sure that it is noted on the lease and I also scratch the date on the battery so we can prove when it went in. We fulfil our lawful duty and make sure it is duly noted and signed off by us and the tenant.
If we lived more than a few suburbs away from the houses we manage I would hand the job over.
But it is the scare tactics that annoy me most of all.
But having said what I said, if the cost is something that is a problem, just roll it into the next rent review.
If the tenants have a problem, they can be directed to the piece of legislation and the nice letter from the PM.
From my personal view, I think getting someone to do it for me is the best way to go, and I'd be willing to pay.
If it costs $75 then that's fine for compliance, and I'll just factor it into my costs. Not only that, I rpefer to have it done by someone else because I just generally like property managers and others to do alot of the managing for me. This allows me to focus more of my time on what I'm good at which is finding deals and setting them up.
Admittedly, Im also not good, nor do I like, self managing a property.
For those who are good at it and like it, then that's fine. It can samve you money as well, but you'll have to put more time and attention in changing the smoke detectors, etc.
If it costs $75 then that's fine for compliance, and I'll just factor it into my costs. Not only that, I rpefer to have it done by someone else because I just generally like property managers and others to do alot of the managing for me. This allows me to focus more of my time on what I'm good at which is finding deals and setting them up.
Admittedly, Im also not good, nor do I like, self managing a property.
For those who are good at it and like it, then that's fine. It can samve you money as well, but you'll have to put more time and attention in changing the smoke detectors, etc.
I was discussing this with the guys doing the annual fire safety statement. If they have access to the tenancy when they are checking the fire doors etc they will check & confirm it is working or issue a non-compliance certificate. No need to get someone else in to check & certify.
BTW - this applies to units where the strata manager arranges the annual certification.
If it is a stand alone house, there is technically no requirement (in NSW at least) but then again, do you want to take the risk.
BTW - this applies to units where the strata manager arranges the annual certification.
If it is a stand alone house, there is technically no requirement (in NSW at least) but then again, do you want to take the risk.
Maybe worth checking out this article following death of a tenant in a fire at a rental property and then consider if it is worth the risk.
http://www.theherald.com.au/news/opinion/editorial/general/smoke-alarm-maintenance/2537240.aspx
I don't work for a smoke alarm company nor is our agency on a commission basis but we think it is a really important risk management tool for our investors, however it is their choice and they can sign yes or no to accept or knock back the service. Sometimes it is necessary to be slightly heavy handed with some of our clients so they understand the importance of some areas of legislation. Not all property investors are as diligent as many on this forum.
http://www.theherald.com.au/news/opinion/editorial/general/smoke-alarm-maintenance/2537240.aspx
I don't work for a smoke alarm company nor is our agency on a commission basis but we think it is a really important risk management tool for our investors, however it is their choice and they can sign yes or no to accept or knock back the service. Sometimes it is necessary to be slightly heavy handed with some of our clients so they understand the importance of some areas of legislation. Not all property investors are as diligent as many on this forum.
My PM checks them each time she does an inspection, as part of the inspection. No extra charge.
For the one at home? We seem to test it every time we cook toast.
Whilst this may seem like a good deal the agent is then taking on the responsibility for the smoke alarm and they do not have the know how to do so. Are they aware of the legal positioning of smoke alarms, how to check the expiry date, how to clean the alarm and test with simulated smoke. Pushing a button is not enough to test a smoke alarm.
However the decision is yours - our agency would NEVER take on that responsibility as that is not our area of expertise and we would not be insured for that type of activity.
They don't reference an Act or Regulation?
Oops here's the NSW one
No mention of the maintainence requirements though?
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/sessionalview/sessional/act/2005-57.pdf
Building Legislation Amendment (Smoke Alarms) Act 2005
No mention of the maintainence requirements though?
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/sessionalview/sessional/act/2005-57.pdf
Building Legislation Amendment (Smoke Alarms) Act 2005
No the legislation does not spell it out the article I referred to was a report from a coroner not through the CTTT, I guess the problem is that case will now be precedent for any future similar cases. I just don't feel it is worth the risk if someone dies in a fire in your property that you could be held liable when for less than $100 per year you can pass the liability for the smoke alarms onto a third party. It is less than $2 per week - add an extra $2 to the rent if you feel so inclined..... no one is going to move or not rent a property for $2 per week.
Don’t want to be shot at, however I can imagine that the legislation, varies from state to state. In QLD, the Professional Indemnity Insurers of Real Estate Agents have advised, that their cover does not extend to inspecting/cleaning etc of smoke alarms. So any one doing it, I believe does so without insurance cover.
While I am not aware that there is any specific qualification that an " inspector" of smoke alarms needs to have, however all we do is insure that the person doing the job, has insurance to cover a "problem". The other things that need to be considered, beside the regularity of cleaning are the "use by dates". The smoke alarm needs to be taken down, and no doubt during the cleaning process, have the "expire" date checked, as it may need to be replaced. No doubt, if a problem occurs, the accuracy of records will assist. REA’ insurers each year ask what records/systems you have in place, before they quote a premium. It assists them calculate “your” risk to them.
New Government legislation over the past years, has actually created new businesses, and while I can appreciate people being sceptical and wanting to be prudent, sometimes we need to step back and see the “bigger” picture before you make your choice.
I know a few of the self managing landlords on this forum. And I know they work hard at keeping themselves up to date with the rules and regulations, and am happy to help where I can, however I do ask that people that are new in the field to really ask around and take advice before they inadvertently expose themselves to risk that may bring them undone.
Now don’t start me on the QLD swimming pool legislation, that’s another “industry” creator.
While I am not aware that there is any specific qualification that an " inspector" of smoke alarms needs to have, however all we do is insure that the person doing the job, has insurance to cover a "problem". The other things that need to be considered, beside the regularity of cleaning are the "use by dates". The smoke alarm needs to be taken down, and no doubt during the cleaning process, have the "expire" date checked, as it may need to be replaced. No doubt, if a problem occurs, the accuracy of records will assist. REA’ insurers each year ask what records/systems you have in place, before they quote a premium. It assists them calculate “your” risk to them.
New Government legislation over the past years, has actually created new businesses, and while I can appreciate people being sceptical and wanting to be prudent, sometimes we need to step back and see the “bigger” picture before you make your choice.
I know a few of the self managing landlords on this forum. And I know they work hard at keeping themselves up to date with the rules and regulations, and am happy to help where I can, however I do ask that people that are new in the field to really ask around and take advice before they inadvertently expose themselves to risk that may bring them undone.
Now don’t start me on the QLD swimming pool legislation, that’s another “industry” creator.
Pay to have it tested.
I pay Smoke Alarm Solutions to have mine tested, and also insist on it for our clients. If they want to do it themselves we force them to sign a statement of liability drawn up by our solicitors to absolve us of any liability.
As someone on here mentioned, the companies like SAS will test the alarm's responsiveness to simulated smoke, replace the battery, and document the inspection and provide a 'certificate of compliance'.
Also - the number of new properties we send to this company who turn out to not be compliant (ie - having the alarms IN the rooms, not in the hallways, or not enough alarms per house, or too far from the entrance to sleeping areas, or battery is fine but the actual alarm has expired (the alarms have expiry dates) etc) is pretty significant.
Had these owners been pushing the "beep" button once a year and doing nothing else, then good luck to them in court.
Also - the unlimited visits per year is to satisfy the requirement for them to be tested once per annum, also at every new lease and at every lease renewal. this can be 3-4 times a year.
Matt
I pay Smoke Alarm Solutions to have mine tested, and also insist on it for our clients. If they want to do it themselves we force them to sign a statement of liability drawn up by our solicitors to absolve us of any liability.
As someone on here mentioned, the companies like SAS will test the alarm's responsiveness to simulated smoke, replace the battery, and document the inspection and provide a 'certificate of compliance'.
Also - the number of new properties we send to this company who turn out to not be compliant (ie - having the alarms IN the rooms, not in the hallways, or not enough alarms per house, or too far from the entrance to sleeping areas, or battery is fine but the actual alarm has expired (the alarms have expiry dates) etc) is pretty significant.
Had these owners been pushing the "beep" button once a year and doing nothing else, then good luck to them in court.
Also - the unlimited visits per year is to satisfy the requirement for them to be tested once per annum, also at every new lease and at every lease renewal. this can be 3-4 times a year.
Matt
ozsupra -
The "insurance" factor is just about having someone else to blame. If your property burns and your landlord insurance company comes knocking on your door, demanding evidence that you have been compliant with the smoke detector legislation, then you get to point the finger at Smoke Alarm service people.
If they've done their job correctly - they will have proof of such. If not - then I bet you they would have the rolls royce of professional indemnity insurance to cover their own hide (and fight it out with your insurance).
The "insurance" factor is just about having someone else to blame. If your property burns and your landlord insurance company comes knocking on your door, demanding evidence that you have been compliant with the smoke detector legislation, then you get to point the finger at Smoke Alarm service people.
If they've done their job correctly - they will have proof of such. If not - then I bet you they would have the rolls royce of professional indemnity insurance to cover their own hide (and fight it out with your insurance).
