Smsf

Best interest is topical - refer Cwth Financial Planning - Its a huge issue at the moment - particularly QLD property.

For example, there is a local planner here in Melb paying for flights up to sunny QLD with a free lunch - promoted openly. In one day 33 people went (some were couples) and all but one couple purchased 'off the plan'. The planner has an AFSL so its allowed and earn a handy commission.

There is a clear conflict of interest when the planner is recommending property to a SMSF client and at the same time recommending a wrap for instance and taking a commission on both. See that all the time.

Further, we are also seeing an increase in brokers out there smelling the $$$ in the SMSF Property market - 'recommending' SMSF set up and property investment. Bit of a watch this space, however, the regulators seem to focus on 'FREE SMSF set up' instead of poor mum and dads getting conned into dud off the plan properties, that don't value up at settlement (of course the SMSF member will need to fund the difference from their super).

Cheers, Ivan

Ivan good point. Yes QLD is the haven of property schemes. Its too unregulated. SMSF spruiking is prohibited already but not everone gets the message. ONLY an adviser with an AFSL can advise on a SMSF. If a broker, a RE agent, accountant or a developer mentions "SMSF" ASIC would take offence. The suggestion a SMSF can be used is financial product advice. ALWAYS.

If the adviser is in the supply chain involving a property sale its conflicted remuneration. And even if they have an AFSL it doesnt mean its good advice. best inteerst tests should apply but thats just a financial planner concept. And its proposed to be watered down. If their advice is "you should buy" and doesnt consider other options its probably just a bad statement of advice and a lure. If they are part of the scheme to sell its not worth the paper its written on. Its possibly as good as a Storm Financial advice stmt. ASIC have even described it as "misleading & deceptive conduct". Sadly the proposed watering down of FOFA won't address this precisely.

I dont sell, advise or even introduce any client to SMSF property. Just as I dont audit SMSFs. My decision was to be independent of those two processes and I stand by it. Happy to discuss any SMSF stategies involving property knowing I have zero conflict and receive NOTHING from any property decision. The only income I receive is the invoice I hand my client. I would argue any SMSF contemplating property should ask all their advisers the question "Do you receive any fee, commission or income ?" Then decide if their advice is sound.

I have refused to give an advice certificate to many SMSFs....It very time consuming and high risk to say "I recommend"...when I just see warning signs. Why should I sign off on someone else's poor advice ??

Sadly there are also some SMSF adminstration services that are baiting with what seems like cheap service fees that end up with a sell, sell, sell. Caveat Emptor.
 
The challenge that I am seeing quite clearly, is that the compliance costs of providing even mediocre financial planning advice is getting beynd the reach of those that really need it most...................

ta
rolf

Attached is the rubbish one major bank lender expects a financial planner to sign off on. At the last minute when the settlement docs are issued. Long after a binding decision to acquire has been made they walk in and ask if we can sign off..

1. Require a financial adviser to give advice in respect of a mortgage / loan. This isnt even required of a homeowner !! Its legal advice in my view. Its a butt covering exercise. Why doesnt the broker and REA sign off that they havent suggested a SMSF or a limited recourse loan ??
2. Its predominantly legal advice.
3. Review nature of and net worth of the members of the fund
4. Advise on default and give legal advice on a mortgage
5. Contemplate a lifetime of events that could trigger a default
6. Review and determine the ability of the fund to service the loan
7. Advise on variable rate loans, P&I + liquidity flows assoc with super such as contributions etc
8. Review and contemplate the need for insurances
9 Indenity to bank that our advice is what the borrower has relied upon and NOTHING else.

The best part is that the bank still thinks that a CA or CPA can sign off on financial advice ???

The banks should be held accountable for their questionable practices along with spruikers. The best interest test should be applied to the lender and the whole supply chain associated with the purchase decsion.
 

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Paul

I've done the legal advice for a client getting a SMSF loan and then he was unable to find an accountant to sign off on the 'financial' advice as it was too onerous. How would an accountant sign off that company with no assets or income can afford to pay the loan.

There was one issue with the legal advice too. I had to ensure the borrower was not present (an individual) when advisinng the company - the same individual as sole director.
 
Terry the reality is an accountant CANNOT sign off for the bank advice despite the bank demanding it. The PI insurer would feak if they knew an accountant signed that. When push comes to shove the bank relents and allows the letter to be altered to reflect a financial adviser. STG used to do these loans without guarantee but their policy now seems inline with the parent bank.

I wish ASIC required a certificate to be signed off by the Trustee prior to settlement of any SMSF loan that "the Trustee has made enquiries of the real estate agent / facilitator, finance brokers, and all professional and service advisers to the fund that they and any of their associates, employees, agents etc do not stand to earn remuneration, commissions or fees directly or indirectly unless it is remuneration which has been declared to the Trustee and which the Trustee has acknowledged in writing". Then impose conditions on all parties that considers the income a financial product fee if the disclosure is defective.
 
AMP bare trust/recourse loan required:

(1) an independent financial advise
(2) an independent legal advise for the borrowers
(3) an independent legal advise for the SMSF trustee

All can't be the same firm, and legal cant be the same as the solicitor responsible for the property purchase.
All are mandatory requirement for the bare trust.
Total cost for the 3 advice exceeded $1000
It gave me more grey hairs running around, and basically begging each professional to sign as mostly seems unwillingly.
 
AMP bare trust/recourse loan required:

(1) an independent financial advise
(2) an independent legal advise for the borrowers
(3) an independent legal advise for the SMSF trustee

All can't be the same firm, and legal cant be the same as the solicitor responsible for the property purchase.
All are mandatory requirement for the bare trust.
Total cost for the 3 advice exceeded $1000
It gave me more grey hairs running around, and basically begging each professional to sign as mostly seems unwillingly.

RR, I believe we corresponded earlier in relation to your custody bare trusts. The $1000 plus a 6% rate must hurt!

Our clients are now on a 5.41% product is delivers great value over the team with good lawyers from Redwood and the lenders side - everyone knows their role without 'checklist' certificates to tick boxes and protect the bank not the client.

These certificates above donot provide value at all.

A financial advice certificate by a RG146 rep is rubbish and most lenders require a Chartered Accountant - how does that help?

The legal certificate to say that a lawyer has sat with the members and ran through the docs and the members understand everything is ok, however its a 30 minutes exercise can cost anything from $150 to $1000.

The key role as the gatekeeper is the lawyer and someone like us who interacts and tries to protect the client in accordance with Superannuation law.

No one takes responsibility to ensure the deeds protect the client unless the client engages a lawyer to prepare the SMSF Trust Deed and Custody Bare Trust Deed and these deeds have legal liability coverage of the lawyer. Off the shelf deeds will not provide this. RR Grey hairs are ok mate. The SMSF Administrator usually provides these and any SMSF member should ask the question re the quality of the deeds to ensure they are prepared by lawyers with legal liability coverage.

Were you explained the requirements up front from your broker re certificates? if yes, then ok, however its last minute its rubbish and will cause grey hair, it really hurts the overall SMSF experience.

I try to use 1-2 lenders for SMSF as I know what we are getting from a service and fees perspective and more importantly we can settle in a short time frame with no last minutes surprises. That lender is not AMP.

Cheers, Ivan
 
Both with AMP. One fixed at 6.0%, 2nd one variable at 5.5% with offset. The fixed one cant offset until out of fixed term.
Because the 20% min down payment requirement for SMSF, I am still both +ve CF after taking 80% of rental. All surplus will go into this offset account.

Is the $1k for all 'advice' consider high?
To be fair I relooked at the actual cost. $550 for the 2 legal, $250 for the 1 financial, so total $800
A colleague used Westpac, though he didn't need to do the run around for advice, Westpac did in the background. Not sure how much but his overall fees was much higher.
 
RR, it depends. Every lender will have a legal review of the deeds and mortgage docs, NAB has in house lawyers whereas others such as BOM, Westpac, ST G use a panel if not Gadens. If Gadens is involved its $1500 plus, be they do the right thing. After all they are 'gatekeepers'. But who is protecting the client? those certificates will not.

Shop around and determine requirements of the lender up front, and ensure they advertise it or the broker explains it to you otherwise the costs add up as does the stress.

Cheers, Ivan
 
Shop around and determine requirements of the lender up front, and ensure they advertise it or the broker explains it to you otherwise the costs add up as does the stress.

Cheers, Ivan

The Broker I used for 10 years was too honest... I was his first client to use AMP for SMSF :eek:
 
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