Some people are making it harder...

Hi all,

I am sure this has been adressed before but I wanted to quickly discuss one thing.

I come from a very educated family where my parents always held good jobs. While my parents had money, we were never rich or wealthy and our family immigrated from Europe just under 20 years so my family had to start afresh with nothing.

I have been reading about investing in shares and also RE as well as building my own business. And for those who have read Robert Kiyosaki (sp?) "Rich dad, poor dad" I feel exactly the same.

My dad is totally against me getting into RE investing. He considers it wrong and a bad way to make money. He is also against me doing the online business which brings really good CF. When I ask how should I make money, he never gives me a straight answer... but I guess he just does not know any other way or thinks that you should either have a big salary or design some clever idea for a business product/service that sells well.

I have had so many arguments with him over this, I have just given up. I am not talking about investing with him anymore as it only ruins things between us.

My dad was never rich, he never bought property for investment purposes even though when they bought their PPOR in 2002 just before the boom for under $200,000, their house is now worth around $600,000... I am just surpised that my dad cant see the huge potential with RE investing.

My mum is cool with it, she just tells me to be careful and not get into any financial trouble, while my brother thinks that before I even get into buying my first IP (I have bought my PPOR last year) I should pay off most of my PPOR mortgage.

Anyone else have similar people in their family that discourage you from success? And how did you deal with it?
 
Hi Invest

What you say is the norm for most of the population. To be a successful investor (and in particular a RE investor) you need to invest a fair bit of time in educating yourself on the subject, something that most people do not do. And because they don't understand the nature of the animal they become fearful of it . In my experience they rarely change their thinking so it is best to just do your RE investing without expecting too much support from family or friends - because you won't get any. Maybe leave a copy or two RE investing books around that they might pick up and digest. Maybe! :)
 
Hi Invest

What you say is the norm for most of the population. To be a successful investor (and in particular a RE investor) you need to invest a fair bit of time in educating yourself on the subject, something that most people do not do. And because they don't understand the nature of the animal they become fearful of it . In my experience they rarely change their thinking so it is best to just do your RE investing without expecting too much support from family or friends - because you won't get any. Maybe leave a copy or two RE investing books around that they might pick up and digest. Maybe! :)

I agree mate, spot on.

What we don't know, we fear.

Its human nature.
 
Hi Invest,

Most of us here have family or friends that don't agree with our chosen path in one way or another. Follow your own path and not that chosen by another.

The thing to remember is this:

Take advice from those that invest actively and not from family or friends that have not thoroughly researched the advice they are giving.

Their advice is merely an opinion.;)

Regards JO
 
...And how did you deal with it?
I decided to only take financial & investing advice off those who were successful at it.

This did not include any family - so that was them out :)

Then you don't talk about it anymore (with them) as it only creates disharmony as you've discovered. Go back and talk to them when you are a multi-millionaire :D
 
My mother was aghast when I said I was going to rent out my 2br apartment which was my PPOR up until then and to go and rent a 1bedroom apartment in the same area. This was back in late 2003. She could not see the logic and was against it. My father to a lesser degree, but he came on board after a couple of years, given he saw what I was accomplishing

Fast forward to today and she is very content that portfolio numbers have grown and appreciated. Unfortunately, there are many people who want the end spolis without realising what is involved in acheiving them.

In almost all cases, parents reticence comes out of love and caring. But if you view it simply as them not understanding, and making comment on the unknown, then it changes your perspective of how you might deal with their objections.

On the positive side, their objections may also continually challenge your ideas and ensure, especially in debating the issues, that you have well thought out positions based on realistics assumptions and market insight. Its not all bad. Just don't think they will have an 'aha' moment, it will generally be done by osmosis. :)
 
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Invest,

I'd suggest that most people are completely allergic to risk and have great difficulty dealing with any figure that is larger than their income (so a car or boat is not so hard).

People from certain backgrounds (mostly european) can also be resentful of the "Landlord" class. In many countries only the wealthy own property and many people rent their entire lives. There is a distinct class divide between property owners and everyone else (who actually work for a living).

Remember Australia also has tall poppy syndrome. Its unseemly to be too successful (except at sport or being ridiculously good looking).

Combining these various issues you get a series of different reactions. Objections to landlordship since that is "taking advantage" of those too poor to buy. Aversion to investing in anything risky (i.e. shares). Aversion to debt. Discomfort with over achievment and success.

What you need to remember is most people don't have a rational relationship to money they have an emotional one.
 
On the positive side, their objections may also continually challenge your ideas and ensure, especially in debating the issues, that you have well thought out positions based on realistics assumptions and market insight. Its not all bad. Just don't think they will have an 'aha' moment, it will generally be done by osmosis. :)

Nicely put Buzz, I'd never thought of it like that!

Regards JO
 
after a few years of banging the head on the brick wall i came to the simple conclusion.

talk investing and real estate with those in the family who do likewise or are genuinely interested (ie, they bring up the topic), talk other stuff with the others.

you will never change a mindset - that has to come from the person themselves.

i remember when we first started out and were buying old houses for reno, my mil would walk thru and bag the property to pieces ("what are you buying this rotten old thing for"; "you'll never make anything good out of this horrible old house" etc etc). needless to say, when she would walk thru the finished product she was always full of praise - but then we'd buy the next property and she'd start all over again. don't get her started on tenants, as they had a bad one in one of their rentals once and made fil sell the entire block of flats at the end of the 90's (sob!!)

she has never changed, never will.

my fil, who is an ex-builder, and i get together for good old chinwags and he is keenly interested - we just do it out of earshot of the mil.
 
From my experience I'd say it's a case of risk adverse coming from your dad.
He took one big risk, it worked out well, why push your luck.
Salary is equated to security and consistent pay week after week while someone else worries about the tedious stuff.
It's common for most people to become risk adverse as they get older as well.
My dad was similar, but when I starting asking him about details of what he done and how he done it, he was a different person.
I'd suggest you still try and get him on board with your plan.
Go into the details and nitty gritty.
Ask for help, ie "dad let me run this by you and see what you think" and go thru details like "it rents for XX costs XXX, what do think?"
If he says it's no good ask "what do you think will go wrong?"
Basicaly don't talk vague strategy but detail & nitty gritty.
He mite play indifferent and say "it's great, go ahead".
In which case you can ask the same Q like "I would like you to tell me what can go wrong, and what you think based on your experience. What happened 20/30 yrs ago and what is different now?"
May work, may not.
 
It takes a gutsy person to go against their family's advice, because, on the whole, MOST of the time, they are right. HOWEVER, your parents were bought up in a different world, a world where investing in property hardly existed and middle class was something to aim for. Unfortunately, my father had always been a "I work for my money" type of person, who has moved from one hands-on-labour-type job to another throughout most of his life. When I bought a parcel of land against their "better judgement" back in 2006, they were horrified, but now all I hear is how well I ended up buying (it's doubled in value).

Anyway, you will sort this out yourself...keep on reading and then jump in...don't let anything or anyone stop you. I can guarantee, even if you end up with a dog, at least you've tried...:)
 
also - having read robert k - you will understand that they were bought up and educted in the "industrial age" which is no longer relevant to the future.

you have entered the "information age", a period of time you parents don't understand and weren't taught about.

it's a bit like trying to talk to my father in law about the internet, when he still does his tax in a ledger book ... no on the same planet, let alone the same page.

p.s. not all "older" folk are coy about the info age - my mother and her friends have their own facebook pages at 65+.
 
My mother was happy when I started buying property, but I think she's gotten to the point of thinking that I'm too wealthy, or something, so now she doesn't want to know.

My FIL, on the other hand, is also an investor, but with a different style and strategy. I am fortunate in that he and I can have a very robust discussion about the pro's and con's of each other's approach, but at the end of the day we are still top mates.
 
These are just symptoms of going against the grain...if you want to make money you have to be prepared to ruffle a few feathers especially of those people that are close to you, if you do things to please others than you going to end up like them, living in fear in retirement (seems to be the norm).

When your taking risks you are going to be judged, it comes with the territory, you just have to deal with it and dont seek approval.
 
A couple of years ago I was using all my money to buy cars, car parts and anything that could go in a car. Week after week this is what I used my money for (regretabley). My family was fine about it, even though I was going no-where with what I had.

Now I have gotten hold of property investing, I get comments about how risky it can be, how you can go bankrupt so easy and so on. This is where I really learn my first lesson, and thats not to talk to family about property investing until you really know your stuff. If you don't, they can even put doubts in your mind.
 
I agree with what has been said here for sure. Andrew your story sounds familiar, I still have my toys but they don't get the cash I used to spend on them for sure...I was mad, and still know a lot of people who spend crazy on there cars but barely have a place to call home!

I constantly get reminded by everyone around me about the dangers of getting into dept (even though its good dept), I'm surrounded by them. I'm pretty thick skinned though. I'm new to investing in property so its very difficult at times but I will make it.

Its not that I want to prove them wrong, I just have clear goals that I want to achieve. Nowt wrong with that....
 
Hi all,

I am sure this has been adressed before but I wanted to quickly discuss one thing.

I come from a very educated family where my parents always held good jobs. While my parents had money, we were never rich or wealthy and our family immigrated from Europe just under 20 years so my family had to start afresh with nothing.

I have been reading about investing in shares and also RE as well as building my own business. And for those who have read Robert Kiyosaki (sp?) "Rich dad, poor dad" I feel exactly the same.

My dad is totally against me getting into RE investing. He considers it wrong and a bad way to make money. He is also against me doing the online business which brings really good CF. When I ask how should I make money, he never gives me a straight answer... but I guess he just does not know any other way or thinks that you should either have a big salary or design some clever idea for a business product/service that sells well.

I have had so many arguments with him over this, I have just given up. I am not talking about investing with him anymore as it only ruins things between us.

My dad was never rich, he never bought property for investment purposes even though when they bought their PPOR in 2002 just before the boom for under $200,000, their house is now worth around $600,000... I am just surpised that my dad cant see the huge potential with RE investing.

My mum is cool with it, she just tells me to be careful and not get into any financial trouble, while my brother thinks that before I even get into buying my first IP (I have bought my PPOR last year) I should pay off most of my PPOR mortgage.

Anyone else have similar people in their family that discourage you from success? And how did you deal with it?

Simple answer to a complex problem;

Follow your own path, and most of the population (95%) are poor, so don't listen to them.
 
I agree with what has been said here for sure. Andrew your story sounds familiar, I still have my toys but they don't get the cash I used to spend on them for sure...I was mad, and still know a lot of people who spend crazy on there cars but barely have a place to call home!

I constantly get reminded by everyone around me about the dangers of getting into dept (even though its good dept), I'm surrounded by them. I'm pretty thick skinned though. I'm new to investing in property so its very difficult at times but I will make it.

Its not that I want to prove them wrong, I just have clear goals that I want to achieve. Nowt wrong with that....

I think piston broke was right....

Debt, even good debt, can be dangerous, of course it can. By talking it through in detail like PB said, you acknowledge what the're saying and exlain how/what youre doing takes that into account..
 
Friends and family only want what is good for you and the reason so many are against investing in property is that they don't understand it.

Many years ago I had a conversation with one of my Sister-in-law's. It went something like this.

Me: We've just bought an IP.
Her: Congratulations! It's great to see you getting ahead.

Next meeting.

Me: We've just bought an IP.
Her: So soon? Don't get over your head.

Next meeting.

Me: We've just bought an IP.
Her: Another? Should you really have so much debt.

Next meeting.

Me: We've just bought an IP
Her: How many properties can you live in? Why on earth do you need so many? You're just greedy.

We don't speak about our properties to any of the relatives now. They know we have them, but they don't know any of the details or how many we have. We found that all of a sudden we went from just another struggling family member to the "rich uncaring landlord" and a lot was expected from us because we were now "rich" despite our personal situation not changing.

Some of the neices and nephews, now that they are getting older, have asked a few questions from time to time, and we have always been open and honest with them, but unless asked we do not discuss the subject at all.

Hubby also has an older brother with just one IP. I don't think they will ever have more than the one as they only purchased this when they had finished paying down their PPOR and now they are working on paying this down. Having more seems to be too much risk for them, and that is fine. We all have to sleep at night. His wife is a bit of a softie for the tenant too, and feels guilty when putting the rent up, so their tenant is paying a lot under market value.
 
Lady at work asked me "how many properties DO you have?

What happens if you lose your job? I said nothing, we can live on my husbands as the properties cost us little to keep.
What if you BOTH lost your job? If we sold our PPOR we'd have the rest plus income.
I asked "What would you do if you lost your job?" She looked at me as if to say Point taken.
I know she wouldn't be able to make her mortgage repayments and would most likely sell her house and rent with NO assets.

You'll always get that. People throwing things in your path that in all likelihood won't happen. But I like to have a What If plan anyway (even if it's just to throw back at them).
 
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