Spelling on Forums

[Sunfish]

"An affront to evolution". I guess that's it's more important to you than it is to me.

And it may also be important to all manner of people you will need to keep onside during your life.

It has been made clear many times on this thread that a few typos and mis spells are ok as long as there is still meaning. The beef here from the original post on, has been with those who dongivachit but still expect to be taken seriously. If they don't care, why should others?

An interesting thought: Could you write an operation/safety manual using current high school english and have anyone understand it? Seriously, I doubt it. So who will write them when us oldies retire?

 

[Humphrey]

And it may also be important to all manner of people you will need to keep onside during your life.

It has been made clear many times on this thread that a few typos and mis spells are ok as long as there is still meaning. The beef here from the original post on, has been with those who dongivachit but still expect to be taken seriously. If they don't care, why should others?

An interesting thought: Could you write an operation/safety manual using current high school english and have anyone understand it? Seriously, I doubt it. So who will write them when us oldies retire?

I can't answer that because I'm not aware of the current high school English curriculum. But ask yourself if someone could come up with a revolutionary idea that changes the world without spelling it correctly? My answer is Yes. Can you renovate a house with a massive capital gain without the proper spelling. Again my answer is Yes.

dongivachit is only your judgement. Yes, some may be dongivachit but there are many other reasons why spelling might not meet your standards. The ruler over the knuckles went out long ago. As more information transfer moves to video and podcast, spelling is likely to become even less important.

 

[Sunfish]

I can't answer that because I'm not aware of the current high school English curriculum. But ask yourself if someone could come up with a revolutionary idea that changes the world without spelling it correctly? My answer is Yes. Can you renovate a house with a massive capital gain without the proper spelling.

And mine is "How would he tell the world?"

You deliberately restricted the debate to spelling when it is actually about readability and conveying meaning.

And the guy doing a reno needs to be able to read and understand instructions, and we are talking about communication. And who writes "How to use this product"? I do find the thought of a text book written in Pidgin laughable.

 

[Perp]

An interesting thought: Could you write an operation/safety manual using current high school english and have anyone understand it? Seriously, I doubt it.

Unfortunately, the high school English curriculum places almost zero emphasis on spelling and grammar. Whilst I agree that "getting your message across" is important, the reason that we have rules of spelling and grammar is so that we have a standardised means of communicating those ideas. At the moment, there are still enough people who know "standard English" that we understand the relatively small deviations from it. But when people who only know non-standard English teach the next generation, and students introduce more variants, and so on, I am concerned that we'll soon reach a point where the ability to clearly communicate is substantially diminished, and there's very little that's "standard" about English. (Yes, I'm aware that it's already a very diverse language with many inconsistencies and dialects etc; this only underlines the need to preserve what standardisation exists.)

I like to think that I communicate quite clearly, yet I had the option not to do English in Year 12 (SA), and didn't, because it was very much focused on literature, rather than English language. (Literature is valuable, too, but it wasn't something I viewed as a practical skill, being a very pragmatic 15 year old. ) I did Accounting instead, because I felt it would maximise my marks. It was a good choice - both in terms of maximising marks, and giving me a practical skill. And my English skills are stronger than many of my peers who chose Year 12 English.

As more information transfer moves to video and podcast, spelling is likely to become even less important.

I can't see the written word losing its importance. The written word still has huge benefits, particularly in being able to easily change pace while reading. I know when I'm reading, my pace varies constantly. Some sentences I fly through at double speed - "I got it" - and other times I slow right down and go word by word. Yes, to an extent you can do this with video, but nowhere near as easily.

I love online lectures and documentaries... but I nearly always read the transcript rather than watch the video.

 

[Humphrey]

And mine is "How would he tell the world?"

He or she could quite easily tell the world through twitter, video, podcasts or flash animation.

You deliberately restricted the debate to spelling when it is actually about readability and conveying meaning.

Not according to the title of this thread.

And the guy doing a reno needs to be able to read and understand instructions, and we are talking about communication. And who writes "How to use this product"?

Yes, the guy might have to read the instructions. And I think that he may be able to complete the job even if there were some spelling mistakes in the instructions.

I do find the thought of a text book written in Pidgin laughable.

Hmmm... maybe an untapped market.


Anyway it looks like yet another new language is gaining popularity:

http://www.watoday.com.au/entertain...-visits-perth-20101018-16qqg.html?autostart=1

 

[Tuppence]

I find it interesting Ethann that you argue that spelling, grammar and punctuation are unimportant, yet you are clearly well-spelt and well-written yourself. You write articulately in your argument in favour of poor spelling. Go figure
(Nun of thiss decoding stuf rquired with u, lol )

We should all remember, grammar saves lives - ''let's eat, Grandma.'' or ''let's eat Grandma.''?

 

[Sunfish]

Men die because they can't comprehend simple safety warnings/instructions.

Literacy is the most basic element of education.

 

[Humphrey]

I find it interesting Ethann that you argue that spelling, grammar and punctuation are unimportant, yet you are clearly well-spelt and well-written yourself. You write articulately in your argument in favour of poor spelling. Go figure
(Nun of thiss decoding stuf rquired with u, lol )

We should all remember, grammar saves lives - ''let's eat, Grandma.'' or ''let's eat Grandma.''?

lol.

Yes, it's a funny old world. Full of contradictions.

It's not that I think that spelling is unimportant, just nowhere near as important as some others make it out to be. Each to his or her own.

You've shown me the light in regards to the importance of grandma and punctuation.

 

[geoffw]

And the guy doing a reno needs to be able to read and understand instructions, and we are talking about communication. And who writes "How to use this product"? I do find the thought of a text book written in Pidgin laughable.

My brother-in-law is very well off thank you. He's into commercial property. He started by developing houses, then buildings, up to multi storey buildings. He has an extremely big commercial property portfolio himself. I suspect his portfolio is something Dazz would envy. He drives a car which is worth more than my house.

Yet he can barely read. He came to Australia young, not speaking English, struggled at school, and had to leave early to support his family.

He's got an excellent legal mind, and can deal well with lawyers, tradesmen and tenants. Yet he can barely read a menu.

He can afford to hire people who deal with that for him.

 

[geoffw]

I think it boils down to whether a person attends to detail or doesn't care.

A simple reading of your post will reveal most mistakes and I can't believe that a person has time to post on a forum but no time to read what they wrote. It is indifference.

I guess that sort of thinking will be reflected in other facets of life. Maybe that's why Gen Y stills lives at home with their Mum well into adulthood

Well most Gen Y live at home well into adultery.

But with Gen Y- and even Gen X- the problem is not indifference. It is that they are not being taught English in the way that many of the baby boomers were taught.

My oldest daughter- then eight years old- brought home work with her teacher's comments. Those comments, although written for an eight year old, contained very bad spelling and grammatical errors. If the teachers cannot read or spell, there's not much hope for their pupils.

I like good spelling and grammar. I used to judge people on their English correctness. But I've had to become a lot more pragmatic.

Bad written English- which is sometimes reflected in spoken English- is everywhere.

I don't have to like it. I don't really.

But I have to accept it as a reality of life. There's more important things to get uptight about.

 

[Sunfish]

He can afford to hire people who deal with that for him.

That was Henry Ford's defense too. But what happens when everyone who is really literate retires? Who do you call?

I still would not like to be working beside an illiterate in a modern, complex work site.

I know I have progressed past "spelling" to "literacy" but there are many on this forum who can't understand what is written. I find it scarry.

 

[geoffw]

That was Henry Ford's defense too.

I guess because he was of the US persuasion you are allowed to use the US spelling

But what happens when everyone who is really literate retires? Who do you call?

Well, BIL has really retired. Lots of travelling and fishing, collects a lot of rent. He's probably retired well ahead of those people.

I still would not like to be working beside an illiterate in a modern, complex work site.

Most people are very literate. BIL is an exception. The inability to spell cieling or rostor is not an indication of illiteracy. I should of said a few other things about that.

I find it scarry.

Wasn't he a childrens' author? Because he had a lot of scars presumably?

 

[Sunfish]

Geoff, when I said some can't read I had you in mind. Sorry.

What you read wasn't what I wrote. We have been on this forum for years and I know the heritage of your wife and nothing I have written, nor anyone else has, could, even remotely, be considered a slur on her.

Do you test new employees for literacy? If not, do the others in your kitchen know there may be some among them who can't read basic safety warnings? I draw your attention to Dazz's story of someone who "blew up" a multi million dollar well.

I read "real stuff" for relaxation and profit, and have no idea how functionally illiterate survive.

OK I've gone way past the "spelling" in the thread heading but the defenders of slovenlyness in communication seem to suggest that scientific papers will one day be written in txt speak. I know that will never happen. Why consciously limit your horizons?

 

[geoffw]

Sunfish- BIL is sister's husband, not wife's brother. Your post was not taken as a slur on her- I didn't even think that that connection would be made. Sorry.

The post was an example of somebody who is functionally illiterate, and who has risen to the top of a profession which many in here aspire to.

While I don't "test for literacy", I only accept written resumes, and I do have a written application form. That includes written answers about real life situations as well as numeracy questions- basic money questions, because there is always somebody who has the money ready- and then offers extra change after it's been rung up. I do that too. People can't rely on the machinery to do the job.

After they are offered a position they need to complete some online training which takes an average of four hours to complete. Some complete it in one hour, some twenty- they are paid for six hours if they successfully complete their training shifts.

So a good standard of literacy is required, if not explictly tested per se.

I shouldn't continue to be surprised by people who can't even spell the name of a school they attended for four years. Or the number of basic spelling mistakes in a simple document which could have been spell checked. (Although the handwritten application can sort out the best, even from the amount of time taken to complete).

I should go back to check application forms against standard of work. There may well be some correlation.

One person took a huge amount of time to complete the online training. He was new in Australia, and took the opportunity to learn more English- especially as the training had a spoken commentary as well as written. He has becoame one of my best employees.

 

[GreatPig]

Another view on language.

GP

 

[Humphrey]

Very cool. Thanks for posting that.

 

[Ms Jade]

Another view on language.

GP

Brilliant!

 

[Simon]

Other malapropisms I dislike are:

Baited Breath

Tenderhooks

Deep Seeded Belief

For all intensive purposes

Another two are:

Money is the root of all evil

Music soothes the savage beast

Can anyone add more misquotes?

 

[Simon]

Another two are:

Money is the root of all evil

Music soothes the savage beast

Can anyone add more misquotes?

Some more are:

Bread is the stuff of life

One foul swoop

Lots more out there but perhaps I am the only one interested!

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I know what you are talking about...

I know the "One fell swoop" one, but what is wrong with the other three?

(uh oh)