Sponsoring 457 Visa holders and public school

[INVSTOR]

I can't find any statistics for cost of education for public school for WA for 2013/14 so I will for simplicity guesstimate it is $20,000/child based on this NSW article.
https://www.det.nsw.edu.au/media/do...orts/financial-information/education-cost.pdf

So if someone with three kids was sponsored for three years and earning under the threshold and they didn't need to contribute any school fees, after three years it would cost taxpayers $180,000 for one family.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/25512019/457-visa-school-fees-cut-again/

Why is this not considered in the budget?

Do we really badly need to employ overseas workers to work in large chain supermarkets, etc, or can someone locally be employed? It appears to be a huge expense and doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Perp]

They'd only be paying $4,000 per family per year anyway, so the difference is between $180,000 (based on your figure) and $168,000 over 3 years.

 

[DaveM]

Do we really badly need to employ overseas workers to work in large chain supermarkets, etc, or can someone locally be employed? It appears to be a huge expense and doesn't make any sense to me.

Le sigh.

Given the minimum wage level for a 457 visa holder is $53,900 pa, they are not being given visas to stock shelves at supermarkets

 

[INVSTOR]

Le sigh.

Given the minimum wage level for a 457 visa holder is $53,900 pa, they are not being given visas to stock shelves at supermarkets

I'm thinking of a family I know who is sponsored as a baker - bread, bread rolls, etc.
It does seem like a huge cost to taxpayers to me when I think a local could be employed or are Aussies too under skilled and not trainable?

 

[INVSTOR]

Maybe the government should subsidise training an unemployed person for positions like this instead.

 

[Perp]

I'm thinking of a family I know who is sponsored as a baker - bread, bread rolls, etc.
It does seem like a huge cost to taxpayers to me when I think a local could be employed or are Aussies too under skilled and not trainable?

I think most Aussies don't want jobs like that. :/

 

[DaveM]

I'm thinking of a family I know who is sponsored as a baker - bread, bread rolls, etc.
It does seem like a huge cost to taxpayers to me when I think a local could be employed or are Aussies too under skilled and not trainable?

Hard enough to get a sizeable part of the jobseeker market to turn up to work reliably for a 9-5 job (or even to interviews) let alone a 3am start

 

[INVSTOR]

I think most Aussies don't want jobs like that. :/

Hard enough to get a sizeable part of the jobseeker market to turn up to work reliably for a 9-5 job (or even to interviews) let alone a 3am start

Yes, true, majority. I wonder if there is a small amount of unemployed people willing to do it?

My husband did a small amount of work assisting in this field as a temp when there was no commercial plumbing work available.

 

[sanj]

Hard enough to get a sizeable part of the jobseeker market to turn up to work reliably for a 9-5 job (or even to interviews) let alone a 3am start

It's true.

mate of mine has a catering business with a round 30 tp 40 casuals, I'd estimate 70% or so are foreigners. More work for him as they tend to only stay in perth for a shorter period so he has to constantly hire people but he gets more applications and usually better workers from foreign countries.

Another guy, party planner/organizer, same thing. His staff I dealt with at 2am on a weekend we're french and Brazilian from memory.

Ultimately if a foreigner with no contacts, support network, more problematic visa and worse English than you can "ssteal" your job chances are you're a bit rubbish and probably didn't deserve that job to begin with. I'm sure there are some exceptions to this.

 

[BayView]

Maybe the government should subsidise training an unemployed person for positions like this instead.

There are various incentives already in place for this purpose in various industries...incentives for apprentices etc.

 

[ellejay]

The reality is that there are so many jobs in this country that Australians either won't do, or won't train to do. The same goes in the UK and most other developed countries where the government pays those inclined to sit at home and still have a reasonably comfortable existence. I work in the far north and get paid to fly around the countryside or drive around it in a nice Prado. I would have thought there would be people fighting for my job, but they have huge difficulties with recruitment here. I've always moved around to find the best work opportunities but some can't and others just won't.

I don't think 457 holders have it easy. Their partners can struggle to find work due to the temporary nature of the visa and have read about a few who were made redundant and had 60 days I think to pack everything, sort their affairs and leave the country. Heartbreaking for them and financially very difficult. They have a lot of expense as they're not entitled obviously under 457 for certain benefits. In general I think the ones who come under this visa really want to be here, work hard and make a go of it.

 

[ellejay]

Anyway, I thought 457 visa holders had to pay school fees (maybe just in some states)?

 

[chilliblue]

The reality is that there are so many jobs in this country that Australians either won't do, or won't train to do. The same goes in the UK and most other developed countries where the government pays those inclined to sit at home and still have a reasonably comfortable existence. I work in the far north and get paid to fly around the countryside or drive around it in a nice Prado. I would have thought there would be people fighting for my job, but they have huge difficulties with recruitment here. I've always moved around to find the best work opportunities but some can't and others just won't.

Disagree. In banking, property and even the public service that there are gaining numbers of 457 visa holders all doing the same work that many Australians would like and are able to do but they do it for significantly less.

 

[ellejay]

Disagree. In banking, property and even the public service that there are gaining numbers of 457 visa holders all doing the same work that many Australians would like and are able to do but they do it for significantly less.

But I thought that the employer had to demonstrate to dept of immigration all the various steps that they had taken in order to try to employ an Australian (i.e. the advertising of the role etc etc)? There is also a minimum salary attached to the visa to prevent financial abuse of migrants and undercutting of the local workers. I'm not an expert so could be completely wrong but I know the perception of migrants is that it's extremely difficult to get sponsorship unless you're working in a skilled area where there's a skills shortage. Are you talking about regional areas because if so the sky seems to be the limit in some regional towns for work, there are just so few applicants around.

 

[Norwester]

Chilliblue,

Yep, regardless of the "spin" it's always about the money....

all doing the same work that many Australians would like and are able to do but they do it for significantly less.

Ciao

Nor

 

[Mooze]

AusIndustry - business.gov.au have a program recently started that dependent on number of employed will pay a large amount of training costs (larger company = less subsidy) must be external provider but not necessarily RTO - company just needs to prove the need (ie might be governance training or a specific welding course or etc )

 

[ellejay]

Chilliblue,

Yep, regardless of the "spin" it's always about the money....





Ciao

Nor

Do you have some specific examples? There are obligations on the employer including providing evidence of pay scales for comparable existing employees, providing training and providing flights home costs for visa holder and all dependents. So not just a matter of picking up a cheap stand in to save money. Also, why would a skilled employee leave their own well paid job and presumably reasonably good standard of living to be fleeced by some employer in Australia? Most are reasonably intelligent and would be able to figure they were being taken for a ride, and report the employer to Dept of Immigration leading to significant consequences for the employer. Housing costs are high here, so visa holders have to weigh up if the move is even financially viable as a family, and most know how much they should be being paid for their role.

 

[Sequin]

myschool.edu.au has the govt contribution per school per student

 

[Norwester]

Hi ellejay,

Do you have some specific examples?

Specific examples......yes I know of plenty, even concerning loss of employment by myself. But as for posting them here.....what would be the point, as it just becomes the usual anecdotal rule of seven (I had a friend who had a friend..etc etc)

But we can look at some facts however...

(edit: Linky not working - just google 457 FairWork Reports and then download to PDF for 2013 -2014)

Even though somewhat dated there seems to be just a bit of abuse happening there....

And yes granted, as we are a nation of coastal dwellers we do need to get workers into the bush and if 457 fits the bill for this, then fine........

Ciao

Nor

 

[westminster]

I don't want to get into an immigration debate on 457s as I am pro them but things I know from being a manager of them

- it is not a long term, stay in Australia for life visa unless they convert to PR
- as such many come over by themselves and leave family behind to continue schooling, family support and live frugally here in share houses etc
- in my field they mainly do jobs aussie's don't want, ie short term resources based contracts in office, so not long term FIFO $$$$
- those that bring their family are generally above the cut off and pay taxes and schooling fees for a govt school