Steve Keen predicts interest rate cuts in 2015 as well

At the end of the day regardless of asset class managing risk is part of the game, those who ignore this will suffer the consequence if the market turns.

Clearly the market is changing - 2015 I believe will be a bumpy ride... "another predication".

The problem I see with PI's in general is that given property is seen as a long term play investors tend to stay in the game whatever comes. Turnover costs simply add to the burden and dissuade PI's from acting when they might in alternative investment areas. Shares they drop like a hot spud; property they hang on for grim death. :eek:
 
The problem I see with PI's in general is that given property is seen as a long term play investors tend to stay in the game whatever comes. Turnover costs simply add to the burden and dissuade PI's from acting when they might in alternative investment areas. Shares they drop like a hot spud; property they hang on for grim death. :eek:
From my experience (which is not that wide regarding shares) many folks I have known who got stung by shares tended to hang on to the duds in hope they would recover, and sold the good ones out of fear of them becoming a dud. :confused:
 
Keens predictions were reasonable for the conditions at the time. CB and govt reactions to an impending implosion in economies was unprecedented; something that was all but impossible to predict.

Rudd's fiscal stimulus package had already been announced when Keen made his 40% crash bet with Rory Robertson.

Also Keen expected even more monetary stimulus than we actually got (he predicted ZIRP by 2010).

So the govt and CB reactions were either known or predicted ('over-predicted') by Keen.

He just got it wrong. He wrongly assumed there was a bubble, and that 'The Bubble' must pop regardless of any fiscal or monetary stimulus.
 
I thought he had left town

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Lehmann Brothers collapsed on 15th Septempter 2008. Rudd announced $10b stimulus package in October 2008.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/rudd-unveils-104b-stimulus-plan-20081014-50a6.html

You are correct, however, the first package was simply a teaser which would hardly rate as stimulus these days. The 2008 budget was $316billion.

The real stimulus didn't come until Feb 09.

First stimulus

In October 2008, the Rudd government implemented a A$10 billion stimulus package with the support of the Senate crossbench.
The package included:

$4.8 billion down payment on long-term pension reform
$3.9 billion for low and middle income families ($1000 per child, pensioners $1400, pensioner couples $2100)
$1.5 billion investment to help first home buyers
$187 million to create 56,000 new training places in 2008-09
Accelerate three nation-building funds and investment in nation building projects to 2009

Second stimulus

In February 2009, the Rudd government implemented a A$42 billion stimulus package again with the support of the Senate crossbench. The package included:

$12.7 billion for immediate one-off payments to working Australians, families with school-age children, farmers, single income families and for those undergoing training (A$900 for the average single worker)
$14.7 billion to be spent on the Building the Education Revolution program which built school infrastructure and maintenance and brought forward funding for trade training centres
$6.6 billion to increase the national stock of public and community housing by about 20,000
$3.9 billion to provide free insulation to 2.7 million homes and solar hot water rebates
$2.7 billion in small and general business tax breaks to provide deductions for some equipment purchases before the end of June 2009.
$890 million to fix regional roads and blackspots, to install railway boom gates and for regional and local government infrastructure.

The point is that Keen was only aware of the modest fiscal package at the time he made his bet and predictions. One could speculate on what a government 'might' do next but no one really had a good handle on the situation at the time.

I have yet to see any reliable information that refutes my earlier assumption:

Keens predictions were reasonable for the conditions at the time. CB and govt reactions to an impending implosion in economies was unprecedented; something that was all but impossible to predict.

It wasn't until several years later we learnt that AU banks were backs to the wall and required govt support and as it turns out, secrete liquidity injections via the Fed's back door window. CBA took over a billion and told no one. From memory I think the NAB was in on it too.

Keen wasn't that far from seeing his predictions come true. If the market had known or suspected the CBA was in trouble things may have been different.

I would like to have been a fly on the wall when banks and govt met in secrete to try and save AU's financial system.
 
nope.

not reasonable at all.

Keen was shortsighted and literally couldn't see the wood for the trees.

all his predictions failed and he still claims that none of his shortcomings were "his fault".
 
nope.

not reasonable at all.

You keep saying this with nothing to back it. AU threw a 4% (of GDP) stimulus package at the GFC. Largest in the developed world.

Keen was shortsighted and literally couldn't see the wood for the trees.

all his predictions failed and he still claims that none of his shortcomings were "his fault".

I don't care if he was right or wrong. It's irrelevant. I still contend his predictions were reasonable for the conditions at the time. Prices started to crash before massive unprecedented global money printing reinflated markets.

RBA-Dwelling-Prices.jpg
 
They were going down the gurgler until stimulus kicked in. Add a few trillion from China and kaboom you have an artificial property boom. Hasn't been too good of late though so given all those speculators who are sitting on paper profits, well they may not yet get to cash in on that little boom.

Time will tell I suppose but if you bought in the last 5 years I wouldn't hold my breath.

REIV-Median-House-Prices.png
 
yes lets ignore the last 3 property booms, lets ignore property gains of 25-35%, lets ignore those who are now cashed up.

Lets all focus on Freckle and his predictions;)
 
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yes lets ignore the last 3 property booms, lets ignore property gains of 25-35%, lets ignore those who are now cashed up.

Only if you've been in the game for 10 or more years. And what do they have to do with Keens predictions?

Who's cashed up? My guess is that less 1% of PI's are actually living the dream with their feet up sipping a raspberry and coke.

Headline major city rises (nominal) look good but that's no where near the real picture. Paper CG profits are meaningless until you cash out or can leverage up.

If you bought in the last 5 years many a PI is sitting on zero growth and flatlining rentals if not negative rental growth. Those that did get a little growth are scratching their heads wondering if they can hold on to it given that things are looking less than rosey.

Lets all focus on Freckle and his predictions

I doubt it. Many here are too scared to peep out from under the covers.
 
Keen made his bet mid Nov 08. Labour announced their fiscal stimulus package Feb 09.
The most important piece of stimulus pertaining to the housing market was the $21,000 boosted first home buyer grant, announced in October 2008.

Keen wasn't that far from seeing his predictions come true.

Steve Keen's bad calls and predictions

01 - In 2006, Keen said we may already be in a recession (we weren't)
02 - In 2006, Keen said Australia's Private Debt to GDP ratio would exceed 160% by 2007 (it still hasn't)
03 - In 2006, Keen said Australia will be in recession long before our Debt/GDP ratio falls (ratio has fallen, no recession yet)
04 - In 2008, Keen said interest rates would be at 2% by 2009, and ZIRP by 2010 (neither happened)
05 - In 2008, Keen said we would have double digit unemployment (up to 20%) (didn't happen)
06 - In 2008, Keen said we would have a severe recession, possibly a depression (didn't happen)
07 - In 2008, Keen said house prices would be down 40% within 'a few years' (wrong)
08 - in 2008, Keen sold his Sydney home at a cyclical low point, just before prices rose 20% (very bad call, Sydney prices are up 60% since then)
09 - In 2009, Keen admitted he was hopelessly wrong on house prices after losing the bet with Rory Robertson (he walked)
10 - In 2010, Keen predicted an accelerating rate of decline in Australian house prices (declines eased shortly after, then prices started rising)
11 - Between 2008 and 2011, Keen claimed the Australian property bubble began in 1964, 1983, and 1988 (when did it begin?)
12 - In 2008, Keen said his biggest regret was not buying property at the start of the property bubble in the 1970s (so it began in 1970s now?)
13 - In 2011, Keen identified 1997 as the start of the 'bubble' (he makes it up as he goes along)
14 - In 2014, Keen said Australia has a housing bubble because of the RBA rate cuts since 2012 (his latest revised start date for 'The Bubble')
15 - In 2011, Keen said Australian house prices would fall 20% by the end of 2013 (not looking good, prices rising)
16 - In 2012, Keen said Australian house prices would rally in 2013 (conflicts with #15)
17 - In 2012, with Australian house prices well above 2008 levels, Keen said his 40% crash call was 'looking healthy' (fail)

(some of the links won't work because they link to Aus Property Forum which is blocked from here, but I assure you there are links to quotes for all of those failed predictions and bad calls made by Steve Keen).

I still contend his predictions were reasonable for the conditions at the time. Prices started to crash before massive unprecedented global money printing reinflated markets.
The falls in 2008 were caused by excessively high interest rates. The SVR rose above 9% as the RBA attempted in vain to quell imported inflation by jacking up rates.

Steve Keen was totally blind not to see this, and not to realise that slashing rates would ignite a new housing boom (imagine how big the boom if rates had gone to zero like Keen predicted!).

Once rates fell back to more normal levels in 2009, house prices resumed their upward march.

Prices didn't 'start to crash' in 2008. Prices only fell by a few percent nationally. Nothing unusual there. House prices fall every few years. Prices fell in 2004, 2008, 2011, and prices will fall again in the future. Just part of the cycle. House prices don't always go up. Sometimes prices fall. Yet every time prices fall the bears herald it as the beginning of 'The Crash' instead of recognising it as just another normal cyclical correction that happens every few years.

I think many bears share Keen's obsession with 'The Bubble', and therefore make similar errors when forecasting the future direction of the housing market.
 
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I don't care if he was right or wrong. It's irrelevant. I still contend his predictions were reasonable for the conditions at the time. Prices started to crash before massive unprecedented global money printing reinflated markets.

you don't care that someone, as a course of their employment and very nature of their business - is PAID to predict what is a likely outcome; and they get it wrong, but it's okay?

and they went on television, and took interviews, crying from the rooftops to any and all that would listen, gave advice based on his predictions, and got it wrong?

it's not reasonable to expect an unlikely economic response to an unlikely credit freeze from the head of the US Federal Reserve that was a study of the Great Depression and how to avoid it?

Keen's predictions were nothing short of alarmist academia with no foundation in the real world. He consistently predicted incorrectly, before and during GFC1 and GFC2 and now he is standing up saying things will happen again?

Excuse me if I take a leaf out of your book and say his predictions are also "irrelevant" - except I'll make that call ahead of time.
 
you don't care that someone, as a course of their employment and very nature of their business - is PAID to predict what is a likely outcome; and they get it wrong, but it's okay?

and they went on television, and took interviews, crying from the rooftops to any and all that would listen, gave advice based on his predictions, and got it wrong?

it's not reasonable to expect an unlikely economic response to an unlikely credit freeze from the head of the US Federal Reserve that was a study of the Great Depression and how to avoid it?

Keen's predictions were nothing short of alarmist academia with no foundation in the real world. He consistently predicted incorrectly, before and during GFC1 and GFC2 and now he is standing up saying things will happen again?

Excuse me if I take a leaf out of your book and say his predictions are also "irrelevant" - except I'll make that call ahead of time.

Economists and Meteorologists. Fabulous jobs if you can get one!
 
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