Steve Navra - Guru or Ghost?



Hi All,

Here is the factual information regarding the Navra Companies:

A) Navrainvest Ltd
Navrainvest Ltd is a funds management business and is publicly owned by shareholders.
This company is operating successfully, the income funds are currently performing at 4%+ above the index; the Structured Property Fund is down 2%+ from its start, which is certainly better than market and much better than equities, which are down more than 30% over the same time period.

Due to the closure of Navra Financial Services, Navrainvest Ltd has lost a useful distribution resource as the funds under management were built from the Navra Financial Services Client base.

Currently the directors are busy concluding a joint venture with a large financial institution, which has a distribution of over 200,000 clients and this will certainly greatly improve the inflows of FUM and serve both the unit-holders and shareholders interests very well. Letters go out to shareholders this week inviting them to a meeting to vote for, or against the JV with this large group.

I will formally announce who the JV partner is after the shareholders have voted on this.

NOTES: Navrainvest Ltd was formed and built for Navra Finacial Services clients and relied solely on distribution from this source. The JV opens up an enormous distribution chanel, which should result in an enormous increase in FUM - to the benefit of all.

The shareholders meeting will take place at the end of October.

B) Navra Licence Pty Ltd
This company had one director (Steve Navra) and held an AFSL.
The only purpose of this company was to offer the Financial Services license under which Navra Financial Services operated.

I have surrendered my AFSL and ceased being a Financial Planner.
This company has been closed.

C) Navra Financial Services Pty Ltd.
This company operated and offered financial planning, under my AFSL as mentioned in (B) above. This company has closed.

Reason for the closure of Navra Financial Services Pty Ltd:
As a result of the GFC and the collapse of Great Southern, approximately 30 clients (3% of total clients) of Navra Financial Services put in claims against the group through the Financial Services Ombudsman.
The fact that these complaints were registered led to an enormous increase in insurance premium and to an eventual situation where the company could no longer afford the cost of the necessary insurance.
A financial planning group cannot opperate without insurance and the cost of such insurance would have led to the group going insolvent.
At the end of June (The date the insurance expired) the license was surrendered to ASIC and the company was closed. (Navra Financial Services ceased all operations on 17th May 2011)

NOTES:
1) It seems sad that a mere 3% of clients can cause a group to close. As noted above, this is all it takes for the cost of running such a business to become untenable.
2) The complaints are being defended as it is clear that these clients did not follow the structure advised in their individual Statements of Advice and that was to maintain a gearing level of a maximum of 50%. Clients who maintained the correct structure will have seen their portfolios decrease with the GFC market decline, but clients who geared too highly were 'wiped out'. NFS held many meetings and sent out many notices to every client strongly suggesting that clients decrease and maintain their gearing levels to a maximum of 50%. This meant in some cases selling down units to maintain the structure. Some clients refused to sell down or decrease their unit holdings and thus suffered the financial consequences.
This 3% of Navra Financial Services clients have submitted complaints, which is their absolute right to do, and it is these complaints that caused the group to close as mentioned above.

D) Navra Financial Solutions Pty Ltd.
This company was formed by Dylan Navra (My son) who was an authorised Representative of Navra Financial Services.

It is NOT a 'phoenix' operation and was formed purely for the purpose of providing continuity for the clients of Navra Financial Services, up and until new services can be offered by the Joint Venture operation.

Navra Financial Solutions Pty Ltd has only one director and only one authorised representative and that is Bob Penter. This company is licensed through the Dover Group (AFSL).

You will note that both Dylan and I offer consulting services to Navra Financial Solutions and this is only for continuity purposes as these clients are familiar with Dylan for Financial Planning and myself for Property and Funds management.

All the clients of NFS will have the opportunity to:
i) Obtain their financial services through the new JV group.
ii) Obtain their financial services through Bob Penter.
iii) Seek financial services elsewhere.

On a personal note:
I am formally retired from financial planning.
I will consultant to the new JV Company and to Navra Financial Solutions, for as long as they have a need of my services and will thus be able to support existing clients and shareholders through these groups.

I hope this clears up any confusion.

Kind regards,
Steve Navra

Sad news Steve but, I can understand the reasons that led to this end.
Good luck!
 


Hi All,

Here is the factual information regarding the Navra Companies:

A) Navrainvest Ltd
Navrainvest Ltd is a funds management business and is publicly owned by shareholders.
This company is operating successfully, the income funds are currently performing at 4%+ above the index; the Structured Property Fund is down 2%+ from its start, which is certainly better than market and much better than equities, which are down more than 30% over the same time period.

Due to the closure of Navra Financial Services, Navrainvest Ltd has lost a useful distribution resource as the funds under management were built from the Navra Financial Services Client base.

Currently the directors are busy concluding a joint venture with a large financial institution, which has a distribution of over 200,000 clients and this will certainly greatly improve the inflows of FUM and serve both the unit-holders and shareholders interests very well. Letters go out to shareholders this week inviting them to a meeting to vote for, or against the JV with this large group.

I will formally announce who the JV partner is after the shareholders have voted on this.

NOTES: Navrainvest Ltd was formed and built for Navra Finacial Services clients and relied solely on distribution from this source. The JV opens up an enormous distribution chanel, which should result in an enormous increase in FUM - to the benefit of all.

The shareholders meeting will take place at the end of October.

B) Navra Licence Pty Ltd
This company had one director (Steve Navra) and held an AFSL.
The only purpose of this company was to offer the Financial Services license under which Navra Financial Services operated.

I have surrendered my AFSL and ceased being a Financial Planner.
This company has been closed.

C) Navra Financial Services Pty Ltd.
This company operated and offered financial planning, under my AFSL as mentioned in (B) above. This company has closed.

Reason for the closure of Navra Financial Services Pty Ltd:
As a result of the GFC and the collapse of Great Southern, approximately 30 clients (3% of total clients) of Navra Financial Services put in claims against the group through the Financial Services Ombudsman.
The fact that these complaints were registered led to an enormous increase in insurance premium and to an eventual situation where the company could no longer afford the cost of the necessary insurance.
A financial planning group cannot opperate without insurance and the cost of such insurance would have led to the group going insolvent.
At the end of June (The date the insurance expired) the license was surrendered to ASIC and the company was closed. (Navra Financial Services ceased all operations on 17th May 2011)

NOTES:
1) It seems sad that a mere 3% of clients can cause a group to close. As noted above, this is all it takes for the cost of running such a business to become untenable.
2) The complaints are being defended as it is clear that these clients did not follow the structure advised in their individual Statements of Advice and that was to maintain a gearing level of a maximum of 50%. Clients who maintained the correct structure will have seen their portfolios decrease with the GFC market decline, but clients who geared too highly were 'wiped out'. NFS held many meetings and sent out many notices to every client strongly suggesting that clients decrease and maintain their gearing levels to a maximum of 50%. This meant in some cases selling down units to maintain the structure. Some clients refused to sell down or decrease their unit holdings and thus suffered the financial consequences.
This 3% of Navra Financial Services clients have submitted complaints, which is their absolute right to do, and it is these complaints that caused the group to close as mentioned above.

D) Navra Financial Solutions Pty Ltd.
This company was formed by Dylan Navra (My son) who was an authorised Representative of Navra Financial Services.

It is NOT a 'phoenix' operation and was formed purely for the purpose of providing continuity for the clients of Navra Financial Services, up and until new services can be offered by the Joint Venture operation.

Navra Financial Solutions Pty Ltd has only one director and only one authorised representative and that is Bob Penter. This company is licensed through the Dover Group (AFSL).

You will note that both Dylan and I offer consulting services to Navra Financial Solutions and this is only for continuity purposes as these clients are familiar with Dylan for Financial Planning and myself for Property and Funds management.

All the clients of NFS will have the opportunity to:
i) Obtain their financial services through the new JV group.
ii) Obtain their financial services through Bob Penter.
iii) Seek financial services elsewhere.

On a personal note:
I am formally retired from financial planning.
I will consultant to the new JV Company and to Navra Financial Solutions, for as long as they have a need of my services and will thus be able to support existing clients and shareholders through these groups.

I hope this clears up any confusion.

Kind regards,
Steve Navra

cool_story__bro_super.jpg

But what was the nature of the complaint by the 3%? If it is just that they lost money the Ombudsman will tell them to cry some moar. Why surrender your liscence?
 
View attachment 8012

But what was the nature of the complaint by the 3%? If it is just that they lost money the Ombudsman will tell them to cry some moar. Why surrender your liscence?

Hi cu@thetop,

The Ombudsman will deal with the complaints as they must, irrespective of the merits. Most of the complainants claim they "did not understand" the implications of their investments; even though our statement of advice is 90 to 120 pages of explanation and disclosure.

Also, some claim that investing in Great Southern was innapropriate for their situation.

Our insurance premiums rocketed to in excess of $250k pa and then an outright refusal of insurance as a result of these claims being lodged.

It is just not worth it to run the planning side of the business at such a premium.

We are concluding a joint venture with a large Investment and Planning group and so all of my clients will be more than catered for by the services offered by this group.

Surrendering my AFSL was the easy part and personally I am not unhappy to exit Financial Planning; my interests have always been in Property, Funds Management and structure education.

Mostly though, I have lost confidence in the honesty and workings of the free market stock exchange system, so I will concentrate on doing what I enjoy and believe in and that is property, education and how to structure and build a property portfolio through to Living off Equity.

I will run educational workshops for these new groups as a consultant and in this way I get to help the many, without taking on the responsibility of their exact individual planning model.

Regards,
Steve
 
Last edited:
Mostly though, I have lost confidence in the honesty and workings of the free market stock exchange system, so I will concentrate on doing what I enjoy and believe in and that is property, education and how to structure and build a property portfolio through to Living off Equity.

Regards,
Steve

Wow! I never thought I'd ever read something like this from you Steve. Thank you for your honesty.
 
Hi cu@thetop,

Our insurance premiums rocketed to in excess of $250k pa and then an outright refusal of insurance as a result of these claims being lodged.

It is just not worth it to run the planning side of the business at such a premium.

Thanks for that. When you put it in that light it would seem that getting out of financial planning is sound financial planning!
 
Around 2005, 2006, many investment gurus floated around urging people to invest into hedge funds with special focus on volatile markets such as the US "... the more volatility the better, because that's how hedge funds made monies".

I wonder how it turns out to people who invested?
 
Last edited:
Do you think other FA's have also lost confidence in the stock exchange system?

Mostly though, I have lost confidence in the honesty and workings of the free market stock exchange system, so I will concentrate on doing what I enjoy and believe in and that is property, education and how to structure and build a property portfolio through to Living off Equity.
 
Steve,

your property investment presentation at Chatswood back in 2002? and free consultation after set me on the road to property investing. The information provided was extremely helpful and presented logically and with integrity. I hope it all pans out for the best.

I was more a sharetrader than a property investor...however the decent returns have nearly always come from property (to date). Maybe it has to do with too many insiders in the sharemarket and property (in many circumstances) being a more level playng field.

Ajax
 
Wow! I never thought I'd ever read something like this from you Steve. Thank you for your honesty.

I agree. I have been to your seminar. I think you are a brave man. I could never take the responsibility of handling other people's money as no matter how matter what...even when they understand all the risks involved, I would feel bad if I couldn't perform to their expectations.

Your ideologies are great though.
 
Around 2005, 2006, many investment gurus floated around urging people to invest into hedge funds with special focus on volatile markets such as the US "... the more volatility the better, because that's how hedge funds made monies".

I wonder how it turns out to people who invested?

lost everything I invested and stupid me did it twice
 
Hi Steve, I am a relative to one of the 3% of clients affected and I can assure you the truth will come out shortly. I do not agree with your summary / clarification of events...

In my opinion, you could not tackle/ try and resolve the disputes face to face with each of your 'valued' clients. If there was no concerns and you had done everything right why run away when things go pear shape ? Shouldn't a financial planner be there during both good and tough times ?

I think this is why the 3% had to lodge complaints ! In fact the 3% are the ones that have had the courage to go forward and lodge complaints. I believe there are far more than 3% of your clients who are far from happy with services rendered.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
the financial plans of so many have been ruined...

It is not my intention to attack neither defend anyone here and no, I don't know the details of the issue. The question I have is what about the responsibility of each investor? And yes, I'm a former client of Navra who lost the equivalent of a fully paid property in regional Australia or a unit in outer West Syd :eek:. It really hurt me and my family however, I take full responsibility for it. It was my decision to invest and I was at the steering wheel (of my decision). I knew what I was up to when I got in it. I also knew how much I could lose before I needed to jump off. I believe Steve as we all were victims of the GFC. I don't believe that back in 2003 Steve planned to take the actions he's taking and make the statements he's making now in 2011.

In summary, it was an expensive lesson to learn but, one that will be within me for ever. To the point that I thank God for having that lesson earlier rather than later in life.

PS. Sorry if I offended anyone. It was never my intention.
 
It is not my intention to attack neither defend anyone here and no, I don't know the details of the issue. The question I have is what about the responsibility of each investor? And yes, I'm a former client of Navra who lost the equivalent of a fully paid property in regional Australia or a unit in outer West Syd :eek:. It really hurt me and my family however, I take full responsibility for it. It was my decision to invest and I was at the steering wheel (of my decision). I knew what I was up to when I got in it. I also knew how much I could lose before I needed to jump off. I believe Steve as we all were victims of the GFC. I don't believe that back in 2003 Steve planned to take the actions he's taking and make the statements he's making now in 2011.

In summary, it was an expensive lesson to learn but, one that will be within me for ever. To the point that I thank God for having that lesson earlier rather than later in life.

PS. Sorry if I offended anyone. It was never my intention.

Knowing what you know now, what are the lessons for all here to learn?

Would you do what you did again?

What would you do differently?

What would you not do again?

Thanks :)
 
Knowing what you know now, what are the lessons for all here to learn?

Thanks :)

Would you do what you did again?

Once red:

Good decisions come from wisdom,
Wisdom comes experience,
Experience comes from bad decisions

Thus, I didn't have a chance to do anything different to what I did :eek:

What would you do differently?

I had made money in property and had lost money in the stock market. So, guess what I'd do differently from now on (and I'm not concern of other will think :cool:)

What would you not do again?

Would no invest in anything I have no direct control and that I don't fully understand. Simple is beautiful.

Also, I realised there are no gurus out there. Only lucky and unlucky people (some more articulated than others). When you think about all the highly paid CEO's and directors of Banks, Managed Funds,heads of State, etc that couldn't see what was coming and could only react to it. It makes you wonder in what sort of mess we all live in.

Hope this helps!
 
Thanks Steve - good to have things explained clearly to prevent mis-information.

Ditto.

Whilst I don't know the details and never invested with Steve or on Steve advice, I do know it takes courage and risk to put the fact out here. He could go to jail.

Directors face enormous risks both personally and professionally. Advisers even more. Sadly some people take no responsibility for their decisions.

On Great Southern, to thosewho think an Adviser should know everything I have two words to say to you, Bernie Madoff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff

Many learned advisers put clients and others money into his investments and lost it all. $65BN not M was involved.

Regards, Peter 14.7
 
What would you not do again?

Would no invest in anything I have no direct control and that I don't fully understand. Simple is beautiful.

Also, I realised there are no gurus out there. Only lucky and unlucky people (some more articulated than others). When you think about all the highly paid CEO's and directors of Banks, Managed Funds,heads of State, etc that couldn't see what was coming and could only react to it. It makes you wonder in what sort of mess we all live in.

Hope this helps!

Excellent Post!

In my investing experience that is what I have found as well but thankfully without the pain of no or negative gain.:eek:

Control is why I invest in Property. I can stop problem but I can control then (I can fix rates, I can sell when I want, I can evict tenants) and the reaction. On property I have made very good money and CG.

On Shares, I never liked the control factor so I invested heavily in only three stocks with money I could afford to lose. Through dumb luck have made good to great money on 2 of the 3.

On the third I have lost something like 80%. They still live and have a slim but still possible chance of coming good. Not counting that one.

But in each case I had no say, no control, no ability to influence direction. I just got lucky, really dumb lucky and that is not how to invest.

If Steve, Peter, Bill Evans, RBA cannot see the future. Why do we think we can?

Peter
 
Back
Top