Still motivated in your day job?

[virgo]

From another viewpoint..............

True. At my age, the open skies and big park lands are less of a concern. But to be honest, most people who come here from these developed megametropolis (like Singapore, Seoul, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Shanghai) go nuts pretty quickly, because it's actually so inconvenient and slow-paced. It's almost like some outback city. Even the airport feels outback the moment you land - I certainly got that feeling when I landed back in Melbourne. It wasn't just that it's small and old (and that it certainly is) - it was also dirty and the queues were sooo slow.

Hiya

I actually have another point of view if i may share...(small voice)

Having been born and bred in Singapore and then lived in Sydney for the
past 10 years, i trust my view carries some credibility??

Yes, a modern metropolis like Singapore is a very good place to earn money (low taxes, capital taxes what's that?) but do you know the average Singaporean pays a very high price .....eg.

a) one of the most expensive real estate in the world: when i go back to Singapore, most of my friends (of my age ahem!) are staying in apartments averaging 1 million and over Aussie dollars..but hey! it is still a small 3 bedder 120 sqm apartment! No backyard, no view... Throughout their lives, they would be lucky to own it outright....

b) very little green parks, beaches; public amenities are always overcrowded: leading to a lot of ugly social behaviour; imagine shopping at Coles where the aisles are half the width; (and that's why, there's very few obese people in Singapore altho it is changing), the average waiting time at a local suburban post office is 15 minutes...

c) a stressful education system:kids start being "hothoused" from age 5 onwards (before starting school) and average 3 to 4 times a week; kids not wearing glasses are not the norm but a rarity! A large part of your after tax income will go into these....there's no room for blue collar workers; if you are not academic, you are seen as a social failure...builders, butchers, electricians, plumbers are amongst the LOWEST paid in Singapore...

d) very little social welfare and pension : what's that?? that's why you see a lot of old old people working at menial jobs in Singapore, very very sad.

e) the constant relentless refrain by the Government to work harder, achieve more, "you have no one to help you in your old age/sick except yourselves"!
You have no time to smell the air, to appreciate your kids for what they are (and not just mini study machines), to even bring them up on your own (90% of women in Singapore work and entrust kids to their Indonesian/Phillipino kids)

You get the picture, what i am trying to say is living and working in Singapore on the surface is really good; scratch the surface and try living there all your life is another matter....

 

[BV]

The loo's in KHH and HKG looked like no one had been in there before you - even though there was a steady stream of people going in and out!

But they have a dedicated cleaner to each loo, in contrast, a cleaner in Tullamarine would be doing all the loos himself

 

[Shaneelastic]

True. At my age, the open skies and big park lands are less of a concern. But to be honest, most people who come here from these developed megametropolis (like Singapore, Seoul, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Shanghai) go nuts pretty quickly, because it's actually so inconvenient and slow-paced. It's almost like some outback city. Even the airport feels outback the moment you land - I certainly got that feeling when I landed back in Melbourne. It wasn't just that it's small and old (and that it certainly is) - it was also dirty and the queues were sooo slow.

Hiya

I actually have another point of view if i may share...(small voice)

Having been born and bred in Singapore and then lived in Sydney for the
past 10 years, i trust my view carries some credibility??

Yes, a modern metropolis like Singapore is a very good place to earn money (low taxes, capital taxes what's that?) but do you know the average Singaporean pays a very high price .....eg.

a) one of the most expensive real estate in the world: when i go back to Singapore, most of my friends (of my age ahem!) are staying in apartments averaging 1 million and over Aussie dollars..but hey! it is still a small 3 bedder 120 sqm apartment! No backyard, no view... Throughout their lives, they would be lucky to own it outright....

b) very little green parks, beaches; public amenities are always overcrowded: leading to a lot of ugly social behaviour; imagine shopping at Coles where the aisles are half the width; (and that's why, there's very few obese people in Singapore altho it is changing), the average waiting time at a local suburban post office is 15 minutes...

c) a stressful education system:kids start being "hothoused" from age 5 onwards (before starting school) and average 3 to 4 times a week; kids not wearing glasses are not the norm but a rarity! A large part of your after tax income will go into these....there's no room for blue collar workers; if you are not academic, you are seen as a social failure...builders, butchers, electricians, plumbers are amongst the LOWEST paid in Singapore...

d) very little social welfare and pension : what's that?? that's why you see a lot of old old people working at menial jobs in Singapore, very very sad.

e) the constant relentless refrain by the Government to work harder, achieve more, "you have no one to help you in your old age/sick except yourselves"!
You have no time to smell the air, to appreciate your kids for what they are (and not just mini study machines), to even bring them up on your own (90% of women in Singapore work and entrust kids to their Indonesian/Phillipino kids)

You get the picture, what i am trying to say is living and working in Singapore on the surface is really good; scratch the surface and try living there all your life is another matter....

Very good post.....
I was once interested in working in Singapore or HK - Yes the money is better than Australia, taxes lower, but house prices are crazy, the lifestyle is ok social wise but I wouldnt be able to take the jetski down the coast for a quick fling, play sport three or four times a week etc.

 

[Deltaberry]

True. At my age, the open skies and big park lands are less of a concern. But to be honest, most people who come here from these developed megametropolis (like Singapore, Seoul, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Shanghai) go nuts pretty quickly, because it's actually so inconvenient and slow-paced. It's almost like some outback city. Even the airport feels outback the moment you land - I certainly got that feeling when I landed back in Melbourne. It wasn't just that it's small and old (and that it certainly is) - it was also dirty and the queues were sooo slow.

Hiya

I actually have another point of view if i may share...(small voice)

Having been born and bred in Singapore and then lived in Sydney for the
past 10 years, i trust my view carries some credibility??

Yes, a modern metropolis like Singapore is a very good place to earn money (low taxes, capital taxes what's that?) but do you know the average Singaporean pays a very high price .....eg.

a) one of the most expensive real estate in the world: when i go back to Singapore, most of my friends (of my age ahem!) are staying in apartments averaging 1 million and over Aussie dollars..but hey! it is still a small 3 bedder 120 sqm apartment! No backyard, no view... Throughout their lives, they would be lucky to own it outright....

b) very little green parks, beaches; public amenities are always overcrowded: leading to a lot of ugly social behaviour; imagine shopping at Coles where the aisles are half the width; (and that's why, there's very few obese people in Singapore altho it is changing), the average waiting time at a local suburban post office is 15 minutes...

c) a stressful education system:kids start being "hothoused" from age 5 onwards (before starting school) and average 3 to 4 times a week; kids not wearing glasses are not the norm but a rarity! A large part of your after tax income will go into these....there's no room for blue collar workers; if you are not academic, you are seen as a social failure...builders, butchers, electricians, plumbers are amongst the LOWEST paid in Singapore...

d) very little social welfare and pension : what's that?? that's why you see a lot of old old people working at menial jobs in Singapore, very very sad.

e) the constant relentless refrain by the Government to work harder, achieve more, "you have no one to help you in your old age/sick except yourselves"!
You have no time to smell the air, to appreciate your kids for what they are (and not just mini study machines), to even bring them up on your own (90% of women in Singapore work and entrust kids to their Indonesian/Phillipino kids)

You get the picture, what i am trying to say is living and working in Singapore on the surface is really good; scratch the surface and try living there all your life is another matter....

Absolutely. Everything you say is true. As I said, it's not for everyone. The funny thing is - half the things you say are actually what attracts me to HK.

a) Affordability is more severe than Sydney (let alone Melbourne) for sure. Usually expat salaries get a housing allowance though. Also the extra net income is more than enough to cover housing. I figured my additional income would be in the 6-digits (A$).

Size-wise, yes that's something you have to put up with. But HK is so fun I'm rarely home anyway. SG is much more dull than HK.

b) That's a pretty small concern. Funnily enough, HK people are pretty well-behaved and probably have less bad social behaviour than here. Not sure about SG. Again I can't say HK supermarkets have that same issue.

c) Absolutely. Education is stressful, because they strive to be the top? Latest OECD survey shows the most educated and smartest brains are in Shanghai, followed by Singapore and then Hong Kong. Try find Sydney or Melb on the list...

http://www.scmp.com/portal/site/SCM...0VgnVCM100000360a0a0aRCRD&ss=Hong+Kong&s=News

As for blue collar workers, well that's actually what I like about the place. But anyway...

d) Actually that's why I couldn't wait to get out, because I just realised my taxes are going towards sustaining the living standards of probably two entire dole-bludging families, yet I have bogans calling up FIRB to investigate me when I buy a house (though I'm as much a citizen as they are and probably have contributed more to society... perhaps it's just tall poppy syndrome at play but I do sense another element starting with 'r'). For a start, I certainly didn't get that $900 rebate Generalissimo Rudd (the one who wants to wage war) handed out.

e) As said, if you're ambitious and want to strive for more success, it's a great place to go to. If you believe in social welfare, I recommend Canada or here.

As usual, it's definitely not for everyone and definitely not for
a) Working class / blue collar;
b) People who just want to chill;
c) People who live off and believe in social welfare

As for this lovely country that I could come back to if I get sick of life over there, perhaps. Only time will tell though that is certainly not on my agenda, as the price of coming back is to look after more families who probably try to dob me in to FIRB. But perhaps the biggest thing is culture - most people here I guess wouldn't enjoy that culture anyway due to language barriers. Your social network will be limited and your lifestyle confined to that of an expat. I guess it would be like me going to Tokyo or some place where I can't leave the expat zone and wouldn't know where to go anyway.

 

[SteveL]

After travelling to Taiwan via HK earlier this year, I have to comment on the loo's

I now figure the biggest culture shock anyone from these countries could get when they first land would be to go to the loo in the terminal at Tulla. I would not be surprised if they wanted to go back home on the next available flight.

The loo's in KHH and HKG looked like no one had been in there before you - even though there was a steady stream of people going in and out! Yes, I even took a photo! (this one from KHH)

The Y-man

You must have been so inspired to even take a photo... but it's way to prove a point.
cheers

 

[recruit2]

I agree with a lot of what you say Delta. But for me it was Tokyo - fantastic place. Yes super organised and efficient and everything running like clockwork. Work hard or go home. Customer service is absolute king. Thoroughly enjoyed my time there. Missed the clean/fresh air though and the spacious/laidback lifestlye. Love the culture in Japan and yes quite superior on the whole to Aussie culture. Coming back here was a really funny shock, you don't believe how funny your own country can look when you've been away from it for so long. Yeah the airport looked like a back shed and Sydney from above looked like a tiny, low density city. Even places like Kobe in Japan were so much denser. But hey that means space and lifestyle is great here. But wow I can't believe the number of huge fat people and everyone with tattoos all over their faces and bodies here. So many piercings and youngster mutilating themselves too. I dislike the whole welfare crap too, but I figured a way around that. If you aim for just a high salary, say 200k, well yes it all gets taxed hardcore and you are getting ripped off without a doubt. Those days are behind me. But if you are in business, of course you only get taxed on what you don't spend. Income MINUS expenses - PROFIT and only that gets taxed. That is the beauty of business and why you can have a great life in oz without being rorted. There are many wonderful things here which we take for granted too. The roads are fantastic on the whole, the highways (outside of our huge CBDs) are mostly unregulated and free, you can drive across the country and see some amazing scenery all just for the cost of petrol and time. You can have your own huge home gym, workshop or whatever the hell you want here really. I do love the lifestyle after doing the Tokyo thing. I think life is best in oz if you can live close by to a few key things for convenience, but at the same time, kind of be out in your own little world just out of town away from the rude/loud masses, which is one of the attributes of Aussie culture. But when its in reverse, being able to be loud and relaxed in your own house and put a bit of music on is a wonderful thing as well. Living in high density Tokyo you really had to be super quiet all the time, very conscious of the neighbours etc, which eventually kinda sucks.

 

[pennyk]

I agree with a lot of what you say Delta. But for me it was Tokyo - fantastic place. Yes super organised and efficient and everything running like clockwork. Work hard or go home. Customer service is absolute king. Thoroughly enjoyed my time there. Missed the clean/fresh air though and the spacious/laidback lifestlye. Love the culture in Japan and yes quite superior on the whole to Aussie culture. Coming back here was a really funny shock, you don't believe how funny your own country can look when you've been away from it for so long. Yeah the airport looked like a back shed and Sydney from above looked like a tiny, low density city. Even places like Kobe in Japan were so much denser. But hey that means space and lifestyle is great here. But wow I can't believe the number of huge fat people and everyone with tattoos all over their faces and bodies here. .

I love Japan, and I can still remember having terrible culture shock when I came home after being there for just 4 months. I found everyone so rude. my first impressions of Tokyo was that it was much less densely built out than I expected. Compared to Osaka/ Kyoto/ Kobe, it felt like it was much greener.

But also wanted to comment on the "fat people" in Australia vs Japan.. we sell medical devices, and make some specifically for those who are over 125kg. Our biggest sales for these are not in the US, or Australia, or any of the other places you would expect. No, Japan outstrips them all! they sell nearly 2x as many as in any other market. Its very strange. I assume that none of the Japanese companies in the market offer big sizes so we pick up a very high proportion of market share, compared to the products where we compete against local manufacturers. But I always tease my Japanese colleagues about it.... there obviously are a considerable number of ex-sumo wrestlers out there!

cheers
Pen

 

[BayView]

But wow I can't believe the number of huge fat people and everyone with tattoos all over their faces and bodies here. So many piercings and youngster mutilating themselves too.

Yep; if you want to be a non-conformist and stick out from the crowd these days; just look normal (in the traditional sense).

I am a very keen observer of people, and one thing that is glaringly obvious these days is the level of obesity and tattos versus healthy bodies and art free appearance as you travel through various communities.

Another thing; I used to laugh when we lived in the USA at all the males aged between say 15 and 30 - nearly every one of them was trying to be either a UFC fighter or a hip-hop dude in appearance; emphasis on the UFC - gotta look tough, Holmes.

Unfortunately; the appearance also carries with it the attitudes to match.

It's also happening in the United States of Australia in a big way by the way...sad.

You never saw many "Happy Days" type males wandering around.

I know you can't judge a book by it's cover, but...

 

[jaycee]

You never saw many "Happy Days" type males wandering around

???????????

 

[recruit2]

Totally spot on Bayview.

 

[HomePage]

a) one of the most expensive real estate in the world: when i go back to Singapore, most of my friends (of my age ahem!) are staying in apartments averaging 1 million and over Aussie dollars..but hey! it is still a small 3 bedder 120 sqm apartment! No backyard, no view... Throughout their lives, they would be lucky to own it outright....

Now there's the one place in the world where available land is all but consumed and hence justifies its high property prices. Australia's got a loooooooooooong way to go on that front.

 

[Deltaberry]

recruit2 - I agree. Tokyo is a truly amazing place. I'm not sure if I can go there to work that easily though, due to language barriers. If I was Japanese, I'd actually love to live and play in Tokyo. How exactly did you find a job there? Anyway I think Tokyo has got the perfect balance of greens, cleaniness yet has a very vibrant amount of activity (call it density if you like). I think HK and Shanghai will never be like that in my lifetime and even if they do, it'll be 50 years later.

Your point about the $200k-$350k salary mark is spot on. It's enough to live a comfortable life but not enough to make a difference (ie I still have to go to work), which is why it's frustrating the welfare system hits me like a dog because it puts my targets at least another 8-10 years out. I'd love to do business one day, hopefully before 30, but no good ideas at the moment. Maybe I'll change my mindset about lifestyle here when that time comes.

pennyk - I'm surprised you didn't like it. But as said, it's not for everyone. Japanese are known for their courtesy (post WWII they've done a lot to clean up culture and etiquette).

HomePage - land is not used up in Singapore. There're still many parts that are undeveloped, same as HK and same as Shanghai. The reason land goes up in value over there is because the convenient land is used up. Convenient land is also used up in Syd/Melb but there's an opportunity to re-use them by building up and moving towards higher density living. Building out like a spiral doesn't solve anything because no one really wants to live 1.5 hrs from the CBD if given a choice...

 

[pennyk]

pennyk - I'm surprised you didn't like it. But as said, it's not for everyone. Japanese are known for their courtesy (post WWII they've done a lot to clean up culture and etiquette).

...

Hi DB.. I think you misread my post.. I love Japan. I think I've been there now 12 or 13 times, for both work and holidays. love it. I'm going twice again in January for business, and have managed to swing a very quick side trip down to Fukuoka/ Nagasaki which are my favourite cities.

In my previous post, I was talking about the culture shock I had when I came home to Australia, because people seem so much ruder here!

Pen

 

[Deltaberry]

In my previous post, I was talking about the culture shock I had when I came home to Australia, because people seem so much ruder here!

Pen

Can't agree more. The service, not just in Japan, but in developed Asian cities (eg Seoul, HK, Singapore) is wonderful. When combined with the asthetics of their malls etc, they're a few leagues ahead (ie 3-4 decades).

My biggest culture shock though is definitely as Y-Man said, coming back to a run-down airport and being made to queue up for 40 minutes and then body searched, just because I bought and declared some vitamin C manufactured by a multinational corporation around 5x the size of Myers and Woolworths combined.

 

[norwoodman]

The top league Asian cities haven't always been top-notch for quality service. In Hong Kong for example, they've been forced to step up their service following the fall in the number of tourists when SARS was affecting the city in order to continue remaining competitive with other major cities. Some of the others stepped up after the Asian Financial Crisis.

One thing I found rather amusing when I was in Tokyo a few years ago was that in the central area - which I define as the area close to and within the Yamanote railway line - some parks and gardens charge you for entry, while other large grounds like the Imperial Palace are almost completely off limits. I must agree though, the service in the shops is great although sometimes it can be a little unnerving having a shop assistant follow you around an entire store!

 

[recruit2]

The top league Asian cities haven't always been top-notch for quality service. In Hong Kong for example, they've been forced to step up their service following the fall in the number of tourists when SARS was affecting the city in order to continue remaining competitive with other major cities. Some of the others stepped up after the Asian Financial Crisis.

One thing I found rather amusing when I was in Tokyo a few years ago was that in the central area - which I define as the area close to and within the Yamanote railway line - some parks and gardens charge you for entry, while other large grounds like the Imperial Palace are almost completely off limits. I must agree though, the service in the shops is great although sometimes it can be a little unnerving having a shop assistant follow you around an entire store!

How long did you spend in Tokyo?

The Imperial Palace grounds are very accessible and huge. Most parks are free apart from some of the very intricate gardens. There are some wonderful parks in Tokyo, did you go to Shinjuku Gyoen among others? Another myth is that Tokyo is a concrete city. Well yeah it is, but its actually really quite green. Plants and trees all over the place, particularly in the suburbs. In summer it feels like a tropical island almost, bar the concrete, but there are that many lovely plants around everywhere. They have the green/concrete balance working quite well for a huge metropolis. In contrast, now Paris is a true concrete/baron city - yukk..

 

[jaycee]

I still want to go to both Paris & Tokyo... one day soon

 

[pennyk]

How long did you spend in Tokyo?

The Imperial Palace grounds are very accessible and huge. Most parks are free apart from some of the very intricate gardens. There are some wonderful parks in Tokyo, did you go to Shinjuku Gyoen among others? Another myth is that Tokyo is a concrete city. Well yeah it is, but its actually really quite green. Plants and trees all over the place, particularly in the suburbs. In summer it feels like a tropical island almost, bar the concrete, but there are that many lovely plants around everywhere. They have the green/concrete balance working quite well for a huge metropolis. In contrast, now Paris is a true concrete/baron city - yukk..

Tokyo really surprised me actually. I tried to steer clear of it, after visiting Osaka, which is also a concrete city. So, I think I'd been to Japan 6 or 7 times before I finally went to Tokyo. There really is quite a lot of greenery, and having the harbour run thru as well makes it quite an attractive city (well, the area that I stay in anyway!). When the company book me into one of the nice rooms at the hotel, I have a panoramic view from Tokyo Tower all the way around to the harbour. Its fabulous.

Don't know that I'd want to live there though!

Pen

 

[pennyk]

Going back to the original question of whether you are still motivated in your day job.... I finished up in my current role with my employer today. Next year, I'll be with the same company but a different role. (Well I'm keeping half my role (Asia Pacific Manager) and adding some business development/ strategy/ training work for our European headquarters. I'll still be living in Australia, but working from home. and travelling a bit more.
Its a strange feeling.. I've been in my current role (Australian division manager) for 5 years, extremely successful, have developed a great team. So, its hard to move on. But part of my success is knowing when to transition the team..... and its time for them to transition to new management who can take them on a new phase in the journey.
It will be interesting to see how working from home, with new management and responsibilities affects my motivation. It will nice to do some new things but I'm concerned about different management styles and also not having a close team. and working from home is not ideal for me... I find "flexibility" equals working all the time. But I'm very determined to replicate the success we've had in the business in Australia into other markets...... and I think I'll have a bit more "brain space" to develop strategies and plans to make that happen.
and I'll get to travel more! which is very motivating for me! So, first trip in January, to my beloved Japan (twice) and to Germany. So looking forward to getting on a plane again (seriously!)
Pen

 

[Deltaberry]

I'm surprised you'd want to travel more after so much travelling already... travelling for work is one of the most tiring things I can imagine and makes me quite grumpy. That said working til 3am makes me grumpier.