Strategic Outlook 2010 Part II

I hate that word.....strategic.....it adds nothing to the descriptor.


What's the difference between an investment plan and a strategic investment plan ?? By definition, a plan has to be strategic.


What is your outlook ?? Steady as she goes. No no....what is your strategic outlook ?? Ahhh, now that's completely different - it's going to be rough and we are going to sell everything....:rolleyes:


haha yes 'strategic' has become a play word, especially in the world of consultants.

Still i think its very valid in the stock market, less so maybe in the property market.
 
Hi IV, I don't know why you get so worked up by sunfish. What's the point. I think this is a great read:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/311671-a-week-of-historic-economic-tragedy-ahead
http://seekingalpha.com/article/311630-europe-may-fail-due-to-sovereignty-issues

The comments are great reading too.
The temperature appears to be falling, and we do not know when the exact time that precipitation will occur, but that it is highly likely to given the conditions.

I think the intrinsic contradiction in your strategy is to be margined and to be long stocks in a clearly secular bear market in equities. If you do this through the cycle then you may get creamed. What you are effectively doing (whether you know it or not) if you play only the long side and make a return in a secular bear, is that you have been successful in timing the market on the upside. Just my thoughts.
 
. I think this is a great read:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/311671-a-week-of-historic-economic-tragedy-ahead
http://seekingalpha.com/article/311630-europe-may-fail-due-to-sovereignty-issues

The comments are great reading too.
The temperature appears to be falling, and we do not know when the exact time that precipitation will occur, but that it is highly likely to given the conditions.

.

yes the articles raise some very important points, and could it be that these points over time are a contributing factor for the secular bear market??

I dont know, but secular bear markets are not just a thing of magic, its not a case of 'oh its time for a secular bear market'. Secular bear markets are usually characterised by a time of uncertainty/friction/economic duress, whereby share prices languish over the longer term because
(a) they were over valued in the first place (research on the nifty 50 going into the 70's secular bear market)
(b) many of the underlying companies have trouble consistently increasing profits (hence the market starts to punish with a lower PE)
 
I think the intrinsic contradiction in your strategy is to be margined and to be long stocks in a clearly secular bear market in equities. If you do this through the cycle then you may get creamed. What you are effectively doing (whether you know it or not) if you play only the long side and make a return in a secular bear, is that you have been successful in timing the market on the upside. Just my thoughts.

this is such a good point, seriously kudos to you.

Debating the investment idea (rather than the poster) is how we can all learn and improve ourselves.

And your point is incredibly relevant to the current times.
What % of an individual stocks movement is correlated to its 'industry'. I can't remember off the top of my head, but its high. Something like 80% on average (ie averages accross a wide spectrum, so of course there will be odd individual outliners).

To answer your question:
i have 'evolved' over time. Originally back in 2008 i was pretty gung ho about just $ averaging down. But the GFC taught me a good lession (i was lucky in that i had so much cash on the side that i could just keep dollar averaging down in a controlled manner even with a margin loan, so i got through it ok, but upon reflection back to that time, there was too much a degree of luck).

Therefore by 2010 i had adapted my strategy. I still focus on intrinsic value because this is my underlying 'comfort factor', so long as intrinsic value is above share price, then over the long term, the share price will gravitate back towards it (emphasis here on the intrinsic value remaining above share price, there is always the risk that share price drops first, intrinsic value declines later, the smart opperators got out, the more innocent stuck to their positions only to realise later why the share price dropped).

However now when a stock price starts to drop (i am not talking about a few % points, but something more sinister):
I now tend to reduce positions into that downwards volatility. Most of the time i still want to be the underlying stock, but if there is alot of selling pressure, i sell, wait for the selling pressure to abate (ie for the sellers to wash themselves out), and then move back into the stock at lower prices.
There are risks to this strategy of course, being that you could sell, only to find that the stock suddenly moves back up and you are caught out.
However if you are infront of live pricing, you can monitor the situation( this might be done 20 or more times a day, so its very time costly). This is where the benefit of being a retail investor really comes in. I can exit and move back in without really effecting the share price.

This new strategy is a major contribution to me out performing the market in 2011 (yes i am not making a good return this year, but i am far out performing the 'averages' especially when debt is included (ie debt will magnify a downwards position)
 
I think the intrinsic contradiction in your strategy is to be margined and to be long stocks in a clearly secular bear market in equities. If you do this through the cycle then you may get creamed. What you are effectively doing (whether you know it or not) if you play only the long side and make a return in a secular bear, is that you have been successful in timing the market on the upside. Just my thoughts.

Part II

In regards to this whole post,
i sought of agree.
Yes the secular bear phase means that generally stocks as a whole wont perform very well. So as general rule of thumb i agree a straight buy and hold strategy wont work very well (except for point (c) below)

But the market is both a stock market and a market of stocks. Within that market of stocks there will be individual stocks that could perform well even though the market as a whole doesnt.

(a)So if you can find reasonable stocks that have secular growth and should continue to have secular growth (ie not a cyclical) and is priced reasonably (lots of ifs in this statement), then those individual stocks should do well.

(b) Another way is to buy stocks that have been absolutely shot down in a period of the market, they are not buy and hold stocks, but market fear has driven those stocks far beneath their intrinsic value (especially on a through the cycle approach). So these stocks might be bought and then sold when their share price approaches current intrinsic value, ie these stocks are not to be held forever, they are not buffett type stocks.

(c) look at the dividend yld flow from stocks. As the market goes up and down, there are opportunities to buy 'the market' at a good yld. Even though this is a secular bear market, someone buying at low points on high ylds, should end up with a good return once the market moves one day to a secular bull phase (ie the yld will help the total investment return on say a 20 year view point).

I am having alot of trouble finding (a). Its really hard out there, there are very very few stocks in australia that i can apply this to in the current environment.

Therefore my focus at the moment is on (b). The risk from this is that i am buying average companies at depressed prices. But could their depressed prices be depressed for a good reason (just look at bluescope as a good example, lucky which i dont own).

In regards to just being long, its safer in my opinion, than trying to short. I remember Soros stating that he has seen more people loose money by shorting than any other investment strategy. Its a hard game. Better to be long or out in my opinion.
 
Part II


(c) look at the dividend yld flow from stocks. As the market goes up and down, there are opportunities to buy 'the market' at a good yld. Even though this is a secular bear market, someone buying at low points on high ylds, should end up with a good return once the market moves one day to a secular bull phase (ie the yld will help the total investment return on say a 20 year view point).

.

This is a really interesting point in my opinion. The total ASX yld is not that high, but the ASX is now heavily characteristed by resource companies (which dont pay much in the way of dividends).

Strip out the resource companies, and what is the average yld???

So at what point do we reach a situation whereby who care if companies never grow their profits again, so long as they can just MAINTAIN, their profits, then what is the income stream from dividends.

If the dividend yld becomes high enough then the underlying securities represent good buying just on the premise that they can maintain the status quo.
 
No yield or earnings is a given and this is the trouble with 'value' investing.

of course, that is always the risk of equity investing. Its not like bonds, one doesnt know the contractual pay back (subject to the underlying quality of the bonds, ie can face value be repaid).

Doing some interesting research on equity markets during WWII, especially for Britain. If you think times are 'tough' now, try imagining one is back in the UK during the start of the 1940's, the time of the blitz blitz.

The initial results are quite interesting.:D
 
thanks for your replies IV, I think you have thought out your strategy very well, but there is an internal contradiction with respect to being long in a secular bear market. You are right that it is in some ways safer to be long than short. In that case, should you not be scaling your positions based on the over/undervaluation in the index ? Rather you seem to be describing scaling out of losing individual positions once they have turned. I think there are many possible successful strategies, mine revolves largely around market timing. I looked back at my performance and most of it came from going into more cash earlier this year.

I think your strategy works well, but I wonder whether your % profit, activity levels/costs and risk levels could be less by removing this internal contradiction. I suspect that it revolves around lack of confidence in identifying the primary trend. You may have been brainwashed into believing that it is not possible to time markets. It is not possible to get your timing of markets right every time but can you get it right enough of the time to make an extra normal return? That depends on you.

Also I wonder about the use of margin at this point in the cycle. If this is a secular bear market, the best time to use leverage would be at the beginning of cyclical bull periods, not the end as we may be in currently. What % does leverage add to the return currently? It may be very little for a lot of risk. I could understand your strategy if the underlying stocks were a raging bargain eg Pepsi, Coke or J&J on a PE of 10 but we are not at that stage in the cycle yet. There are not any bargains out there except in the under-researched micro cap sector. Valuations may not be rich but they are not compelling to me.

The way I prefer to use leverage is to wait for true bargains. I don't think we have reached that stage in the cycle yet and may need to wait. The upcoming Santa rally if it occurs could be the last chance for a while to get out of neutral positions or to reduce risk.

My biggest regret of the last 12 months has been that I didn't follow my own convictions consistently. I liquidated my discretionary portfolio when the ASX was 4800 but left my super setting in high risk. Oh well, you live and learn.

Also I like your reference to ecclesiastes. Make sure you remember to apply that to the use of margin. My favourite is ecclesiastes 9:

I have seen something else under the sun: The race is not to the swift or the battle to the strong, nor does food come to the wise or wealth to the brilliant or favor to the learned; but time and chance happen to them all.
 
In that case, should you not be scaling your positions based on the over/undervaluation in the index ? Rather you seem to be describing scaling out of losing individual positions once they have turned.


This premise moves from an investing view point to a purly trading view point. My number one underlying consideration is always the individual company. ie what is the 'value' of the underlying company and what is its share price. This may sound pedantic, but for me its very important, its my keystone around which everything else revolves. At the end of the day my focus will always be on the individual company, not the 'index'.

However in a secular bear market, one must give due consideration to the fact that the index is in a potential secular bear phase, therefore what are the underlying conditions that cause this. Its not just a case a 'magic', its usually because the index as a whole is not able to increase earnings consistantly.

When i talk about scaling of of losing individual positions, i am not actually scalling out of them. All other factors being equal, i am exiting them during the downwards price volatility with a view to buying them back at a lower price (so long as intrinsic value is constant). Why stand in front of a herd of elephants, this is the real lesson to be learnt over the last several years. As a small investor be like grass, go with the wind, dont be like the oak tree.
As soon as downwards volatility ceases, buy back your positions. I have done this a number of times with stocks such as Myr, SWM, SXL, CAB. MYR is definately not a buy and hold, CAB potentially is. I love CAB. But if the market wants to push down the price then so be it, go with the flow, exit the position, buy back in. I own more CAB than before the price drop from $5.




I think your strategy works well, but I wonder whether your % profit, activity levels/costs and risk levels could be less by removing this internal contradiction. I suspect that it revolves
around lack of confidence in identifying the primary trend. You may have been brainwashed into believing that it is not possible to time markets. It is not possible to get your timing of markets right every time but can you get it right enough of the time to make an extra normal return? That depends on you.


My major lack of confidence evolves around the fact that we are in changing and volatile times. Intrinsic values are not stable at this point in time. This creates a lot of stress for me.

Personally i dont give a hoot about the primary trend. When i say this i mean with regards to my ultimate investment strategy.

There will be a time at some point in the future when intrinsic value will change his hat. I will move from intrinsic value to 'the speculator'. I will be providing lots of notice about this. At this point in time, i will reduce significantly my overall positions. I will adopt a trading 'hat'. My discussions will be focussed on strategic trading positions with no relevance to intrinsic value. Most of my capital will be protected elsewhere. I predict that this change will not occur for many years (think dot.com like conditions)


Also I wonder about the use of margin at this point in the cycle. If this is a secular bear market, the best time to use leverage would be at the beginning of cyclical bull periods, not the end as we may be in currently. What % does leverage add to the return currently? It may be very little for a lot of risk.

Only if interest cost is less than dividend yld. Dividends are so bloody good, that my margin loan is ADDING to my position, not subtracting under current market conditions. I have NEVER seen a situation like this in the Australian market. In fact its the only reason why i am still in the australian market. From a pure quality point of view i much prefer the US market.

I could understand your strategy if the underlying stocks were a raging bargain eg Pepsi, Coke or J&J on a PE of 10 but we are not at that stage in the cycle yet. There are not any bargains out there except in the under-researched micro cap sector. Valuations may not be rich but they are not compelling to me.

Agreed i am having a lot of trouble as well. My australian portfolio doesnt look anything like an 'australian fund managers portfolio'. However those dividends. Dividends represent cash flow (for the individual investor). Once we include dividends we can start to think of ourselves as mini insurance companies. This changes the whole equation.



My biggest regret of the last 12 months has been that I didn't follow my own convictions consistently. I liquidated my discretionary portfolio when the ASX was 4800 but left my super setting in high risk. Oh well, you live and learn.

Personally my active investment strategies are just that. My super is left on balanced mode, i never touch it, never really look at it, its my potential get out of jail card, if everything i think turns out to be complete BS:D But this is another insurance play (you can see i love thinking in terms of insurance)




I have seen something else under the sun: The race is not to the swift or the battle to the strong, nor does food come to the wise or wealth to the brilliant or favor to the learned; but time and chance happen to them all.

Great quote, if i could have multiple, i would add this.

By the way thanks for all the commentary, great chatting with you.
 
By the way, i can't figure out how to get this multiple quote system working, sorry for all the bolded text, but the only way i know how to reply to each part.
 
Thanks for clarifying what you meant by scaling out of positions. That makes a lot more sense. I've become a big fan of Kostorhyz's articles recently, he has a very systematic way of looking at things. His recent articles about a Santa rally I found were quite interesting, even though the subject matter is not something I am very invested in:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/313043-santa-claus-rally-prospects-part-i
http://seekingalpha.com/article/313042-santa-claus-rally-prospects-part-ii

With respect to super, I too thought that the best strategy was to leave it in the default. However, I think this primarily applies to secular bull markets. The risk-reward in trying to time the market is not in favour of any action in super in a secular bull market. However, in a secular bear market, I think you have to do this to get any decent return over a 10 year period.

Speaking of mini-insurance companies, what are your thoughts about QBE? I have been thinking about this recently. The downtrend is ugly but may end when US interest rates reach a low point. At which time the USD may have reached a low and the company may be a buy. At the moment the australian banks are perceived better value but in a rising interest rate environment, QBE might have better prospects. I have a buy target around $10 at which time I think it might be compelling value if the underlying business remains sound.

It has been excellent conversing with you also.
 
If the Eurozone turns to rat ***** then QBE is the worst buy because it means systemically low interest rates, which is bad for its investment of the insurance float. This is why the stock has underperformed over the past 3 years.
 
Hi Aaron, I was thinking of what might happen after the deflationary effect and possible unintended consequences. I guess I am not buying it at $13 at the moment. However, there is not an insignifcant risk of inflation in 2-3 years time with the bailout response, although everyone at the moment is worried about too little response.

The European exposure from QBE is only 10% of income. The majority of their overseas exposure is to USD. Short term US treasuries cannot go much lower. QBE's average duration is less than 2 years. As a large proportion of their assets are also in corporate bonds, there is a bigger risk they have not bought well there. Also, the number of claims tends to increase with economic slowdown, especially for workers comp and income protection insurance, although I don't think this is a large part of their business.

I think more fundamentally, the main business risk I see revolves around whether they can offset what maybe a structural increase in large insurance events with increase in premium.
 
You have hit the nail on the head, highlighted the MAJOR STRUCTURAL problem with QBE, an environment of low interest rates, with no change on the immediate horizon.

QBE has one of the best global top management teams, so i like the underlying business.

I owned it during the GFC but offloaded in i think it was 2010 because of this risk vs the price back then.

Bought in this year at around $14.5 and $13.00 but just a 3% total position. Happy to hold at these levels. But cant build it to a serious position until can confirm that global interest rates will start rising.

Made one big mistake with this company. Tried my hand at very long dated call positions (ie two years out+). Worked out very bad, these long dated call options are very illiquid, hard to exit once in. I'm down more than 50% (but only a very very small position)
 
Hi Aaron, I was thinking of what might happen after the deflationary effect and possible unintended consequences. I guess I am not buying it at $13 at the moment. However, there is not an insignifcant risk of inflation in 2-3 years time with the bailout response, although everyone at the moment is worried about too little response.

The European exposure from QBE is only 10% of income. The majority of their overseas exposure is to USD. Short term US treasuries cannot go much lower. QBE's average duration is less than 2 years. As a large proportion of their assets are also in corporate bonds, there is a bigger risk they have not bought well there. Also, the number of claims tends to increase with economic slowdown, especially for workers comp and income protection insurance, although I don't think this is a large part of their business.

I think more fundamentally, the main business risk I see revolves around whether they can offset what maybe a structural increase in large insurance events with increase in premium.

I see what you're saying. But what I was getting at is the whole environment of low interest rates, rather than EUR exposure per se. Insurance premiums growth has been quite flat. However, it is the investment income which is the real kicker for QBE and its low yields have been primarily responsible for QBE's lackluster profit growth and hence depressed share price, despite being a well operated insurer.

edit: Generally insurers do better after major disasters because they are able to pass on increased premiums. I don't see why QBE can't do this.
 
After a long think over last weekend, I put my super into cash on monday. It will be interesting to seewhat pans out in the new year, but I'm happy to forego the return and sit on the sidelines. From my perspective, the Australian index is slightly above fair value and the US market is very overvalued.
 
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