Subdividing Corner Block Glen Eira VIC

Discussion in 'Adding Value' started by ChandraOjha, 2nd Apr, 2009.

  1. ChandraOjha

    ChandraOjha Member

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    Hi
    This is the first time I am trying to subdivide so lot of questions and confusions.

    I am planning to subdivide a corner block in Glen Eira City Council, VIC.
    Here is some information about the block:-
    • The block comes under council's Minimal Change Area policy.
    • Size is almost 590 m2
    • I have spoken to council, they will allow building two dwelings.
    Now the questions I have:
    • I wanted to reduce the front Setback from 7.5m to 7.0m. Where do I start and what problems I may face?
    • I wanted to build two double story dwellings, What issues I need to be aware of?
    • There is a 1.83m easement at the back, should I try to build some thing or better not touch it? Its a storm water and swerage pipe.
    • What is more important while selling, a double garage or an extra room?
    • I have spoken to a draftman to do my drawings, should I take services of planner or can I attempt dealing directly with council? Pitfals please...I am not in a hurry...
    • Any other advice for first timers

    I think these are enough for this time and as I go along I will keep posting my experieces.

    I like this forum and have seen some good advice been posted. A good community service I think.

    Thank you very much for your valuable feedback.
     
  2. toylux95

    toylux95 Member

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    hey,

    Normally reducing the set back from the boundries is a thing the councils stand preety hard on and dnt let u change this how ever if you design the buildings using a town planner this can change.

    As for the sewer and storm water easments that is something you have to well stay clear of as a) the council in theory own it and b) you cannot build near it at all as if you damage these pipes because they are roughly only just over a meter deep in the earth you can easily hit them whilst digging footings etc.

    I do all my liasing with the councils on my own with my developments but it can be over powering especialy if you are wanting to get some special conditiions done for your development. so i say use your town planner and a good draftsmen to draw the plans up something that will look good for the council. If you spend the extra little bit of money in the start it will be an easy and enjoyable process.

    If you have any other questions ask me as i have done this sort of stuff before. Good luck with your project
     
  3. ChandraOjha

    ChandraOjha Member

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    Thank you for your response.

    I am trying to find some good planner but I have some budget issues for this time. Their fees are like 5k+.

    What all documents I need to apply for the planning permit?
    I have compiled following list:
    • Feature Survey
    • Design Response (From Draftsman)
    • Shadow Diagram (From Draftsman)
    • Town Planning Drawings (From Draftsman)
    • Elevation Drawings (From Draftsman)
    • Landscape Architecture
    • Arborist Report (I may not need it as I do not have a tree in/around the property).

    Are there any other documents required from my side for a better/quick response from Coucil? Some sort of letter etc.

    Thank you.
     
  4. toylux95

    toylux95 Member

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    you may need some info like sewer diagrams and storm water plans just to make it easy for the council. im thinking also a contour survey will mayb be needed.

    if you are not able to afford a town planner you could always ring up the council and try make an appoitment to see there own town planner and talk it over with him. He will be able to give you specific information that he would like to see in your application as some councils want more or less information depending on location.
     
  5. toylux95

    toylux95 Member

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    you could also attach a letter asking that it is important that uyou recieve a quick response as most councils i have dealt with are very slow in assesing the applications. I would also follow up your letters with phone calls soo as you know they have recieved it.
     
  6. ChandraOjha

    ChandraOjha Member

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    Today I have been speaking to various surveyors to do the first job for me.

    I was looking for someone to do the Re-Establishment, Feature and Subdivision Survey.

    For Re-Establishment and Feature Survey (Full for all the adjoining properties, setbacks, height etc.) they are asking for somewhere between $1800 - $2800 +gst.

    For the Second Stage they are asking between $1300 - $2000 +gst

    Does that really matter if I employe an expensive surveyor or cheaper one?

    The difference is about $500 for each stage that is almost $1000 total + gst ofcourse.

    Yea I have also booked services of a Draftsman he is charging me $1000 for Skeches and for final council drawings $3000, is it more or reasonable. Please give your comments.

    I will keep posting as I progress.
     
  7. Hemma

    Hemma Member

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    Fees for the Drafty depends on whether he's maximizing your Bang for Buck or not. The problem with selecting a drafty over a good architect is that a drafty might not squeeze every inch out of the development for you (many work off 'templates of houses', where they rubberstamp a previous project), whereas, some architects more seasoned in development work will try to make the spaces work a bit better, possibly squeezing in an extra bedroom. But obviously, fees are a bit higher.

    Also, does the scope of work for your drafty include meetings with Local Council and any subsequent correspondences? That's also something worth thinking about.

    In the South Eastern 'burbs, residents are highly educated, and you might need some good support later down the track in the case that you need to go to VCAT over objections.
     
  8. ChandraOjha

    ChandraOjha Member

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    You are quite right but the fees are ot bit higher they are like byte higher. I have spoken to couple of architects and they tend to charge on percentage of the project like 2-5% so if the project is like 500K the architect fee could be above 25k. Which was way out of my budget. What I am thinking of doing is design the one I need my self and other one I would take some standard design.

    No. The fee are only to prepare drawings and design response. I will handle the council part of the communication. Any thing I need to be aware of doing such thing, please let me know.

    If such thing happen then I would probably take advice from some good town planner.
     
  9. ChandraOjha

    ChandraOjha Member

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    Today I have booked the services of Surveyor to do my feature survey and if every thing goes well also the subdivision. Price as I have indicated earlier for feature survey $1800 + GST and for subdivision $1300 + GST.

    They will give me the survey plan in 2-3 weeks.

    Till then I am preparing the design for my front house and some boudaries for rear one.

    One suggestion required, I am thinking of reducing the front street setback from 7.5 m to 7.0 m to give the front house a bit of design, would that be any issue? How should I approach the setback variations to council.

    Thank you for your review and suggestion.
     
  10. Hemma

    Hemma Member

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    In terms of the setback, it depends on whether you are willing to take the risk or not. If you go to the local council, its quite likely that the planners will tell you to stick to the 7.5m, as its the most conservative way to move forward. But if you have a bit of time on your hands, and don't mind arguing, you can always go for a bit more, but there's that risk of council not willing to support your submission based on that one point (even though the rest of your design complies with ResCode), albeit a weak one that might not stand up at VCAT.

    I'd say, leave it as a last resort. Figure out if you really need that 500mm first. You might not even need it afterall.
     
  11. Hemma

    Hemma Member

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    2-5% sounds about right. You have to look at the scope of work and the agreement and see for yourself what scope they are offering for your money. Then do a proper apples-for-apples comparison and see for yourself if you are getting the same deal with the drafty. One that we often not look at is the construction phase, and architects will deal with getting a price from a builder through to completion of the building. Then you also get the benefit of having an 'Architect designed' residence, which seems to make a difference in terms of price when you put it on the market.

    I'm not saying go for the architect, but just make sure that you look at what is included in the quote.
     
  12. ChandraOjha

    ChandraOjha Member

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    Thank you for your feedback and suggestion.
    What I am thinking of doing is take two designs to Council Planner and ask for his opinion and try to give him some argument in favor of my reduced setback design.

    The reason I have: As my lot is a corner lot it need to be same setback as adjoining lot. But the lot after one adjoining my one has a setback of 7 m and then on reducing in the street for a while before start increasing. I am not sure if the planner will buy this argument but no harm trying :).
     
  13. Minx

    Minx Member

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    In terms of designing/dworking drawings the draftsman does exactly that. I would not recommend that you design/draw it yourself as the designs have to meet BCA along with council requirements.

    in terms of building double story townhouses in an established area I'm sure that you will most likely have to use obscure windows etc. Again best for the drafty to figure that out. It can add some cost to the project. I am building my PPOR and I have two balconys. On both balconys I have stainless steel rails and glass. On bothe the ground floor and first floor I am required to install 1700 obscure glass on the sides. What that means is that my glass cost alone per balcony is 6.5k. Total is $13k. Not cheap at all.

    Not sure if it has been mentioned but after the drafty has completed drawings, you will need to engage an engineer and they charge quite a bit. They decide on size and type of beams etc.

    Prior to designing again not sure if it has been mentioned, a soil test and subsequent report is required. This is to figure out type of footings or slab required.

    No matter what price you are given, ensure that the drafty is a registered building practitioner. They should have a license number and have insurence. All engineers would have this also.

    Good luck
     
  14. ChandraOjha

    ChandraOjha Member

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    For designs, I am just doing the floor plans not the design to submit, they will be done by the draftsman. Thanks Minx for comments.

    Today I went to Glen Eira City Council with my floor plans.
    First thing the staff was really friendly.
    She pointed out two issues, one was the setback for garage, she said it should either be 2 m or 5.4. If I put 2m then its too close but if I put 5.4 I hardly have any space left behind. So most likely I will keep 2m.

    The other thing she pointed out was to keep some distance between buildings on first floor about 2m apart. This was because I am building Garage Wall Shared between the dwellings. And I was thinkig to take the wall all the way up to first floor.

    Here I need your suggestion now, should I build "double garage" or "single garage with space in front". Because effectively the area covered is same, one is tandem and other is parallel. What will be more appropriate / selling point. Double will be close to boundary about 2m and single will have setback of 5.4m.
     
  15. Hemma

    Hemma Member

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    Do you have the luxury for a double garage? If not, it might be better to do tandem. I personally prefer the extra 12 square metres to be in the living room. However, having said that, its pretty crucial for Australian families to have some storage space in the garage.
     
  16. ChandraOjha

    ChandraOjha Member

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    Thank you Hemma for your feedback. Believe me its very valuable.

    In my situation, I have around 11.5m of frontage for this back house and having setback of 3m. For tendem I will have to leave 5m in front in such case as my block is not that deep, I will have hardly any space left at the back to make use of it.

    And if its tendem, I will have to leave 5m in front of the single garage which is cutting almost 7m2 in the ground floor and almost similar on the first floor so square area wise I will be only short of may be 3-4 m2. But is it worth loosing upto 5m2 space for getting a double garage then tendem?
     
  17. ChandraOjha

    ChandraOjha Member

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    Today I been to the city council with my tentative design.

    They were happy with every thing else except the drive way in front of double garage. I have allowed 3.5 m but council insist it should either be 2m or more than 5m to discourage parking if less than 5m.

    But reducing to 2m would spoil my design. Any suggestions ???
     
  18. ChandraOjha

    ChandraOjha Member

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    Yesterday I have been to the council and met the ACTUAL planner.

    She came back with some points which are pretty much the show stopper.

    One of them is the Garage Cross Over. Actually this is a corner site at the Traffic Light and the traffic engineers will have issue allowing the cross over near the traffic light. I have about 15m set back from the traffic light. I am not sure if this is enough.

    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
     
  19. ChristianB

    ChristianB Member

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    Sorry to hear you may have come to a road block. It's easy for me to say it now but you need to meet with the "actual" planner as early as possible. I have had several successful TPPs though Glen Eira, and each of these has been made easier through early and meaningful contact with the planners at the TP department.

    Given that yours is a corner allotment, access will be possible one way or another, but it sounds like a bit of re-designing is necessary. Establishing a land use plan with access and egress issues taken into account may be a good approach. Generally speaking, the houses are not the first consideration - strange as it may sound - the first consideration should always be how the land can be used.

    I'm sure your project is not beyond salvation, but it may take a bit of a rethink to get it back on track. Hope it works out.
     
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  20. ChandraOjha

    ChandraOjha Member

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    Thank you for your feedback.

    Actually I met the actual planner who will be assessing my application in the Pre-Planning meeting.

    The issue is the road on the North side is in Road Zone 1 and at the Red Light so Vic Roads told me that they will not allow the Cross Over. Hence both the garage (front and back) are from the sub road i.e. on the East Side (this is the longer end of the block). Now this road comes under City Council and the traffic engineers there may have the issue.

    The planner was helpful, she will clear that for me from the traffic engineering department next week.

    I have doubts here as the first cross over is only 15m from the traffic signal.

    What are my options should there be a NO from council?

    Do I have to redesign the house (which will eventually leave me with no option than just make one big house) or Can I apeal some where for a consideration?

    Thanks in advance for your help.