Subdividing Corner Block Glen Eira VIC

[ChristianB]

It sounds like you need to await further advice from the TP department and their traffic department. If this issue can't be worked out that way, then a dispensation can be sought, however, traffic issues can be expensive to overcome because of the need to engage traffic engineers on your behalf to argue your position.

It may eventuate that you need to re-design to "pair up" the garages from a single cross over, or make other changes to appease the traffic engineers and TP department. I guess this all becomes an issue of time and money, and how much of each you are prepared to spend to resolve the issue.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[Savanna100]

In my experience, 15m to a traffic light for a crossover sounds pretty close. Why dont you put a pic of the plans up and I might be able to give you some advice based on my experience. I'm a NSW/ACT planner but I might have some general comments. There is an Australian standard regarding crossovers, driveways etc. I'm surprised that you would be allowed to only set back 2m when the Australian Standard for garage setbacks is 5.5m from the frontage.

Also, I'd be surprised if you would be allowed tandem parking from two different dwellings, usually tandem is only allowed for the same tenancy.
Anyway. put up the pics and I'll give you as much free help as I can.

BTW, ChristianB, I bookmarked your webasite, awesome site, i hope to come home to Melbourne eventually (I've been away 22 years) and work there as a planner so I'll cehck out your planning info. Maybe ChandraOjha, you should take up ChristainB website offer of some free planning help in January.

 

[ChristianB]

Well ChandraOjha it seems you could get some good advice if we can see some details of your proposed project.

Thanks Savanna100 on the compliments re our web-site, our man Adam does a great job on the site.

 

[ChandraOjha]

First of all thank you all for a great support exactly when I needed.

Today I received a formal reply from Council. The planner said, the traffic engineers will not allow any crossover North of where they are now. So in short what she is telling me is to amend the plans to share the same cross over. Eventually which will leave the dwelling look very bad.

Meanwhile I spoken to an independent Traffic Engineer, he said the proposed plans are within rules and he can prepare a case for it. The only thing he is not giving me is a guarantee. He is charging me $2300 + GST. I am still thinking should I go ahead or not?

From council's point of view thats the only hope I have actually. The other thing is I can apply as it is and then see what traffic engineers say in a formal reply.

Ok some explanation here, the front unit has a double garage which is setback by 2m, the second unit has a separate single garage with tandem parking i.e. setback by 5.4m. The cross over for the second unit with single garage is where the existing one crossover is. The Crossover for the front garage is the new one which will be closer to the traffic light so exactly the traffic light is 15m from the edge of the new cross over.

I am not sure if there is any possibility at all or the independent traffic engineer is not telling me all the truth.

 

[ChandraOjha]

There are some interesting opinions I am getting when I speak to Traffic Engineers.

One I spoke to said the rule is to have minimum of 6.2m setback on a traffic light intersection. The other one said the rule is 20m.

If its 6.2m then my design would work if its 20m then the council is correct.

The argument I received are: The council some time have rules for their own sake.

I am bit confused here, should I go ahead with the Traffic Engineer who said the rule is 6.2m and quite confident that the case is valid.

Thank you in advance.

 

[ChandraOjha]

I have asked the Trafffic Engineer to prepare a report for me to support the application.

Once I have received the reports and sorted all the other planning issues, I will submit the application for planning permit.

There are many things can happen as you know just would wait and see what happens.

Good experience but didn't want to have all these in the first instance but nothing can be done.

Thats where experience matters, I should have done my home work.

Important lesson I have learnt:
From the preliminary plans, involve the actual council planner into the process. What I did, based my designs on the "Planner on Duty"'s suggestion who gave inconsistant ideas which the actual planner rejected completely.

 

[ChristianB]

Good luck with the traffic control issues.

Your story highlights the need to liaise regularly and meaningfully with the TP department. Each time you make some progress with them and reach agreement on key issues, ensure there is some sort of sign off so that everyone acknowledges the status of the application and what needs to be done to maintain support.

 

[ChandraOjha]

The issue I had is related to the approach. Every time I wanted to clarify something I called the Coucil Helpdesk or took the plans to Council Helpdesk. The ladies / gents there gave me some suggestions / corrections I took those as advice from a planning point of view but those were not authentic suggestions. They didn't know what they are talking about or they were from a different department who were just telling their view.

Next time what I will do is once I have the rough plans, I will organise a Pre-Application meeting with the planner who will make decision on my application and then talk to her about all the suggestions and other changes.

It again the same thing, no information is better than wrong information...

 

[ChandraOjha]

Again, I tried to address the issues raised by the Town Planner.

Reduced the bulk by creating the space between the first floor of the buildings.

Next issue now, the private open space for the unites is in the West Corner of the land. Specially the second unit's Private Open Space is in the South West Corner.

The issue is with the Shadow Diagram:
- 22nd Sep 09:00 AM Shadow completly covers the Private Open Space of second unit.
- 22nd Sep 12:00 AM has no shadow over the Private Open Space
- 22nd Sep 03:00 PM has partial shadow of fence over the Private Open Space

Now would that be an issue as indicated by the Town Planner in her preliminary assessment. I didn't find any rule around whats required for new Private Open Space.

There are requirements around existing Private Open Space for not to reduce the sun light further and a minimum of 05 hours required between 09:00 AM and 03:00 PM. Is it applicable for the new Private Open Space as well?
If that is the case, is there any despensation allowed here or its a complete NO NO situation?

Thank you.

 

[ChristianB]

The issues regarding POS are fairly clearly defined within the planning scheme, but generally there is a requirement for north facing (ideally) POS accessible from the living areas that is not too skinny (often 40m2, with a minmum dimension of 4m, so say 4m x 10m) and that is private and does not negatively affect the amenity of neighbouring POS. Often there is a requirement for 2 car spaces and 60m2 POS for three bedrooms, or 1 car space and 40m2 POS for two bedrooms.

It seems like these issues are fairly minor and your architect/planner should be able to reach a compromise position with the council.

 

[ChandraOjha]

Thank you for your quick response.

I have taken care of the size i.e. (10m X 4m), access (direct access from living / dining).

The issue is it falls in the South West Corner of the block i.e. 4m on south wall and 10m on West wall. This block is pretty much absolute North facing on the front.

Being a double story second unit, the Shadow is on the POS at 09:00 AM then no Shadow at 12:00 PM and 03:00 PM.

I am not sure if there are rules around what should be the Day Light access for the POS.

 

[ChristianB]

Any overshadowing issues need to be addressed within the context of the rest of the project. If most of the proposal is clearly compliant and there is no great loss attributable to the overshadowing, there may be scope to reach a position with the council planners that keeps everyone happy.

It is important that your planner can generate a clear and compelling argument to show off the merits of the proposal so that the overshadowing issue does not become a stumbling block.

 

[ChandraOjha]

Thank you Christian.

The problem is that from planning side, I am handling all the issues. The draftsman is only responsible for floor plan you can say.

I have gone through all the rules and the plans comply with them except the ones where there are no parameters
- Neighborhood character
- Visual Bulk
-

The plans are well articulated.
Bulk has been reduced but the planner keep complaining about the bulk she sees.

I am not sure if the Council Planner try to understand the plans or its my duty to make them understand the purpose?

 

[ChristianB]

Thank you Christian.

The problem is that from planning side, I am handling all the issues. The draftsman is only responsible for floor plan you can say.

I have gone through all the rules and the plans comply with them except the ones where there are no parameters
- Neighborhood character
- Visual Bulk
-

The plans are well articulated.
Bulk has been reduced but the planner keep complaining about the bulk she sees.

I am not sure if the Council Planner try to understand the plans or its my duty to make them understand the purpose?

Not to put too fine a point on, but are you the best person to be handling the application? Many aspects of a project can be successfully handled by the owner, but the early planning is not one in my opinion.

Arguing with planners about visual bulk, amenity of POS, and neighbourhood character takes some training and expertise. I would recomend you engage a planner, at least to get over these hurdles, so that you can get your TPP and move onto the rest of the project.

 

[ChandraOjha]

Thank you Christian

I would agree with you here engaging the Experienced Planner but the problem is funding.

On other hand, if the same plans can be approved just by a better argument, I personally do not like that kind of approach but thats life I guess.

I will give it a go for the first time and then if I fail, may be engage some one.

 

[ChristianB]

Chandra, you need to get the horse before the cart. Unless you have a TPP you don't have a project. If you don't have a project, you have no costs to cut. Think of the relative expenses here. Getting a planner to review, amend and present your proposal will cost you a few thousand. However, if that review isolates cost savings as well as planning issues and ends in you having a TPP and thus a project, all is well.

It's a little bit like the building itself.....there's not much point in cutting corners on the foundations - it puts the building at risk.

 

[ChandraOjha]

Thankyou for your suggestion Christian

Can you give me an estimate of how much would it cost for a Town Planner to prepare my TP application to submit to council?

Will a town planner be able to tell me if this proposal will work or not?

 

[ChristianB]

Thankyou for your suggestion Christian

Can you give me an estimate of how much would it cost for a Town Planner to prepare my TP application to submit to council?

Will a town planner be able to tell me if this proposal will work or not?

The cost depends on how complicated the proposal is and what is required in the way of amendments and advocacy (convincing the planners of the merits of your proposal).

Yes, a planner will be able to tell you with some certainty if (and why) a proposal will work.

If you hit the address on my tag, you'll find my contact details. If you get in touch I'll try to steer you in the right direction.

 

[KateMelb]

I am planning to subdivide a corner block in Glen Eira City Council, VIC.
[*]The block comes under council's Minimal Change Area policy.
[*]Size is almost 590 m2
[*]I have spoken to council, they will allow building two dwelings.

This surprises me as Glen Eira's Minimal Change Policy is very strict when it comes to site coverage (maximum 50% for each dwelling) and minimum set-rear back rules (4m from the rear). With a 590m2 block, the dwellings would be very small so they'd have to be double storey, which would raise issues with the neighbours. If there are a lot of objections, the Councillors will decide the application not the officers and they may not be favourable because of the objections....

 

[ChandraOjha]

This surprises me as Glen Eira's Minimal Change Policy is very strict when it comes to site coverage (maximum 50% for each dwelling) and minimum set-rear back rules (4m from the rear). With a 590m2 block, the dwellings would be very small so they'd have to be double storey, which would raise issues with the neighbours. If there are a lot of objections, the Councillors will decide the application not the officers and they may not be favourable because of the objections....

Yes you are right, but I haven't got to that point so will keep you posted of the outcomes as it happens.

Thank you for bringing the point.