Subdivision in WA - How long?

We are considering subdividing an IP in City of Canning in WA.

It is a corner block and we can retain the existing residence and can get a green title (the sewers are all running in the right place) or a strata survey block with own street frontage.

We then want to build a townhouse on the block to retain and rent out.

This will be our first time to undertake a small scale development.

I was just wondering what the current timeframes are in WA for this kind of undertaking. Also is this relatively starightforward or are we in for months or even years of delay and frustration?

1. How long between our initial application and official approval to subdivide? (apparantly once approval is given we have 3 years to complete the subdivision)

2. Once approval is through what would be the average time to connect services etc and to get the new title through?

3. And finally how long would it take from building concept to the building being ready to rent out?


Are there any recommendations for services we can use in WA?

Should we use a surveyor to assist us with the subdivision before approaching builders? Or is it better to use a townplanner? Should we go to an architect or drafting company for concepts suitable for our site? Or should we go directly to a builder to prepare a plan and then do all the work including the subdivision?

Thanks in advance for any feedback to my queries.
 
Sorry not really answering your question by why did you say you can achieve green title as the sewer all runs in the right place? What does this mean?
 
We are considering subdividing an IP in City of Canning in WA.

It is a corner block and we can retain the existing residence and can get a green title (the sewers are all running in the right place) or a strata survey block with own street frontage.

i would Survey Strata - Green title requires own sewer, water and dome - add at least $15k to your headworks costs. they're both street front so it shouldn't matter from a sales/equity perspective as there's no CP.

We then want to build a townhouse on the block to retain and rent out.

i have a plethora of quality builders to pick from for you.


This will be our first time to undertake a small scale development.

I was just wondering what the current timeframes are in WA for this kind of undertaking. Also is this relatively starightforward or are we in for months or even years of delay and frustration?

WAPC takes 90-120 days for clearances, to then sit in the Landgate queue for title for up to 60 days.

Western Power lead in is FOUR MONTHS - sickening - so lodge your Western Power application the same time as your WAPC app.

DA - if you're not pushing boundaries - allow 3 months


1. How long between our initial application and official approval to subdivide? (apparantly once approval is given we have 3 years to complete the subdivision)

at least 9 months. you may get 6, but i wouldn't place my money on it.

2. Once approval is through what would be the average time to connect services etc and to get the new title through?

titles are simple, clearances and DAs are not. services can be done by a builder, but if you want a green title, they have to be done independantly BEFORE titles are issued and then you're at the mercy of trades.

3. And finally how long would it take from building concept to the building being ready to rent out?

all up - i would say allow 24 months from signing a design proposal, to being handed the keys. you are in the City of Canning....:mad:

Are there any recommendations for services we can use in WA?

me? i have a 10% discount for all deals signed in full between 15 Nov and 15 Dec 2009 - www.bluecardindustries.com - shameless self plug there - sorry Sim :eek:

Should we use a surveyor to assist us with the subdivision before approaching builders? Or is it better to use a townplanner? Should we go to an architect or drafting company for concepts suitable for our site? Or should we go directly to a builder to prepare a plan and then do all the work including the subdivision?

i do it all - i will design your lot to take an efficient build to keep construction costs low, then refer you to a surveyor to a contour and feature survey. i will hand them my lot cut up, they wlll draft and lodge your WAPC application. do your WP app at the same time. i will source 2-5 quotes for you from reputable builders and most give my clients a discount now.

remember, if you go through a builder - they retain control and charge for it. if you want to change - you have to start EVERYTHING again. i see folk day after day who have been burned after signing and left to rot in the queue, and when they change - they have to start again because the builder retains copyright.

i give you copyright and give you a choice of builder. i can recommend surveyors, engineers, and civils.


Thanks in advance for any feedback to my queries.
Sounds like your first call should be to BlueCard!

i'm here! :D

City of Canning = nightmare. 2 planners and 6 months for one bent rule on a 7 unit subdivision - next door had 10 units, 3 rules bent, 4 weeks approved.

only just handed the DA over the the client this morning.
 
my 2 cents

I would recommend you go straight to your builder of choice, and move straight to building.

Once building is nearing completition, still going to take 1 - 3 months at the shire for approvals, and then 6 -9 months for single storey construction (no idea on a townhouse, i believe the second storey adds significant cost and time) you can apply for a built survey strata, 4 to 8 weeks for titles.

my main point being if you intend to build the finished product, then avoid going through the land sub division process first, head straight to building, and get the land sub divided at the end, meaning both could occur concurrently. This should cut at least 6 months off the previously mentioned eta of 24 months, and possibly 12 months.
 
Thanks for all that info BlueCard :)

By BlueCard
all up - i would say allow 24 months from signing a design proposal, to being handed the keys. you are in the City of Canning....

Yikes, that is a long time for one townhouse:eek:. This really makes me sit up and realise that there are real risks involved here. Before committing to this it is pretty obvious that we will need to know exactly what it is going to cost and whether it will end up being profitable for us and would it put us in a better position than going out and purchasing a ready built IP now.

Given that we can only get funding for either this project OR to go and purchase another IP, the opportunity cost of getting this wrong would be pretty high given the two year commitment required.


BlueCard, thankyou for the link to your site :)

I have lots more questions....given my inexperience in subdividing and building some of these question might come across as silly so I apologise for this

1. Do you get involved in the initial feasabilty as to whether our site is suitable for development? By this I mean that although we already know that it is in theory possible to subdive and build there remains the question of will it actually be worth the effort and actually add real value (above our costs) to the site immediately and into the future?

2. What are realistic estimates of what our costs (outside of financing costs)would be for each stage (ie feasability stage, design concept, subdivision costs, build costs etc etc) so we can work out what our total costs will be or is this something that is worked out as we move from one stage to the next?

3. If it looks like it would be viable am I right to assume that when preparing a design concept for the site that you take into account not only the site itself but the surrounding area and location. What I mean is do you recommend single story as to opposed to double story, what budget is appropriate within the area, recommended quality of finish and fittings appropriate to general amenity of the surrounding suburb etc etc so as to maximise return. Or is this something I need to talk to local REA's about.


4. Further does the site dictate what the budget should be or does our budget dictate what we put on the site?

Obviously our budget is important. As an extreme example if it turns out that to maximise the site potential we need to spend $1Million but we only have a budget of $250K then obviously we would be better off to wait until we can afford that. On the other hand even if our budget is unlimited it might be a waste of money to spend anything more than 200K in total on the project.

regards
 
my 2 cents

I would recommend you go straight to your builder of choice, and move straight to building.

Once building is nearing completition, still going to take 1 - 3 months at the shire for approvals, and then 6 -9 months for single storey construction (no idea on a townhouse, i believe the second storey adds significant cost and time) you can apply for a built survey strata, 4 to 8 weeks for titles.

my main point being if you intend to build the finished product, then avoid going through the land sub division process first, head straight to building, and get the land sub divided at the end, meaning both could occur concurrently. This should cut at least 6 months off the previously mentioned eta of 24 months, and possibly 12 months.

you're talking about a build strata situation - yes - it's a great possibility.

however, it's a little more complex than just "taking it to a builder". i don't know any builders that handle WAPC applications.

the main POD being between Green Title and Survey Strata - that was the question. build strata also mean you have to build and hold while you wait for titles. should something go wrong, you can't sell because...there's no title yet. so it's not all hunky dory like you make it seem to be.

you can also get done for MULTIPLE TENANCIES ON ONE TITLE should you rent it out before title are issued - if you are appling for a grouped dwelling situation, you're moving away from Residential Dwelling status and into Residential BUILDING - 2 different classes of building in the BCA and TPS's.
 
Thanks for all that info BlueCard :)



Yikes, that is a long time for one townhouse:eek:. This really makes me sit up and realise that there are real risks involved here. Before committing to this it is pretty obvious that we will need to know exactly what it is going to cost and whether it will end up being profitable for us and would it put us in a better position than going out and purchasing a ready built IP now.

Given that we can only get funding for either this project OR to go and purchase another IP, the opportunity cost of getting this wrong would be pretty high given the two year commitment required.


BlueCard, thankyou for the link to your site :)

I have lots more questions....given my inexperience in subdividing and building some of these question might come across as silly so I apologise for this

1. Do you get involved in the initial feasabilty as to whether our site is suitable for development? By this I mean that although we already know that it is in theory possible to subdive and build there remains the question of will it actually be worth the effort and actually add real value (above our costs) to the site immediately and into the future?

2. What are realistic estimates of what our costs (outside of financing costs)would be for each stage (ie feasability stage, design concept, subdivision costs, build costs etc etc) so we can work out what our total costs will be or is this something that is worked out as we move from one stage to the next?

3. If it looks like it would be viable am I right to assume that when preparing a design concept for the site that you take into account not only the site itself but the surrounding area and location. What I mean is do you recommend single story as to opposed to double story, what budget is appropriate within the area, recommended quality of finish and fittings appropriate to general amenity of the surrounding suburb etc etc so as to maximise return. Or is this something I need to talk to local REA's about.


4. Further does the site dictate what the budget should be or does our budget dictate what we put on the site?

Obviously our budget is important. As an extreme example if it turns out that to maximise the site potential we need to spend $1Million but we only have a budget of $250K then obviously we would be better off to wait until we can afford that. On the other hand even if our budget is unlimited it might be a waste of money to spend anything more than 200K in total on the project.

regards

would you prefer to call me? no hard sell or anything.
 
I think I will have to call you too..... was also following the post with interest. There isn't much info out there for the novice sub-divider.
 
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