Subdivsion Process & Application

[wrexter]

Hi all

Just had a quick question about the subdivsion process, specifically in Perth if that makes a difference.

We have recently engaged a surveyor for a subdivision of a property. The surveyor carried out the survey as well as organising the application to the WAPC and request from the carious service providers for conditions (i.e. Water Corp, Western Power etc). We now have all our conditions and are underway to meet those conditions.

Now, i would like to subdivide another property into 3 lots (we are unsure if its possible due to size restrictions) as there is currently a duplex on the lot and we want to build a unit/townhouse/villa at the back.

I want to know, can i just engage a surveyor to carry out a survey and then organise the WAPC application and submission myself. Would it save me much money or is it not worth the hassle?

Also, as i own the property, would it be better to go built strata so that we can push forward the build of the new property. If i started the process now would it work out any quicker as i imagine it would take the next 3-4 months to finalise design/contracts etc before construction began?


Thanks for you help

Wrexter

 

[perthguy]

Now, i would like to subdivide another property into 3 lots (we are unsure if its possible due to size restrictions) as there is currently a duplex on the lot and we want to build a unit/townhouse/villa at the back.

What is the zoning, proposed lot sizes and council?

I want to know, can i just engage a surveyor to carry out a survey and then organise the WAPC application and submission myself.

You can lodge the application yourself if you have the plans drawn up or if you can draw the plans yourself.
The Application guide & fee schedule and Application Form are here:
http://www.planning.wa.gov.au/626.asp

Would it save me much money or is it not worth the hassle?

I don't think it is that much hassle to get a preliminary approval. How much you would save depends on how much your surveyor would charge to lodge the plans. Maybe get a quote and then compare that to the fee in the fee schedule on the web site.

Also, as i own the property, would it be better to go built strata so that we can push forward the build of the new property.

Traditionally, built strata lots were worth less than survey strata lots. However, I think this is changing and people don't care as much. I would advise you to speak to some local real estate agents to see if it will make a difference.

I know a built strata is a lot cheaper. For example, in the City of Belmont the application fee is $3,178 for a three lot survey stata with common property (WAPC). For a built strata, the application fee is $916 for a three lot survey stata with common property (Local Council). You should check those fees with the WAPC and your local council though.

Another issue is that if you are going to create the back block as a vacant block before you build, the application will go to the WAPC even if you lodge a built strata with council. The alternative is to start building and then lodge the strata application with council.

This is what I am currently considering for my block in Cloverdale:
1. DA for two townhouses behind an existing house
2. construct to plate height
3. Lodge Strata application with local government

The reason it has to be done in this order is because of council requirements for my zone.

But then I could go with a survey strata with common property. I'm not sure which would result in a higher end value or if it would be the same

I hope this helps.

 

[wrexter]

What is the zoning, proposed lot sizes and council?

Not quite sure on the proposed size, but the overall size is 895sqm. Its zoned R30 in the City of Vic Park

I don't think it is that much hassle to get a preliminary approval. How much you would save depends on how much your surveyor would charge to lodge the plans. Maybe get a quote and then compare that to the fee in the fee schedule on the web site.

We already have 2 quote for a contour and feature survey from two surveyors. Both will then provide suitable subdivision options.

One quote is $950 (+$180 for AHD Levels) and one is $1650 (+$33 for AHD Levels).

I was trying to understand the difference (if any) between the two or will both provide the same outcome?



So would the process generally be

1. Engage surveyor to provide feature contour survey
2. Surveyor proposes Subdivision options
3. Survey plan is created based on preffered option
4. Application to WAPC is lodged.
5. Application is approved or rejected.

Based on approval i can go ahead an commence meeting conditions.

I think survey strata may be mroe suited for us as once we re-strata the lot it will create more equity for us to then get funds for building the new dwelling.


Thanks for the help. being a first timer and looking after 2 subdivisions is proving a bit of a mind mess!

 

[perthguy]

Not quite sure on the proposed size, but the overall size is 895sqm. Its zoned R30 in the City of Vic Park

Ok, so R30 is a minimum lot size of 260m2 and an average of 300m2. You should be able to subdivide an 895m2 block into three. Of course there are complicating factors, there always are. Are you planning to retain a dwelling, or is this three blocks cleared?

We already have 2 quote for a contour and feature survey from two surveyors. Both will then provide suitable subdivision options.

One quote is $950 (+$180 for AHD Levels) and one is $1650 (+$33 for AHD Levels).

I was trying to understand the difference (if any) between the two or will both provide the same outcome?

I have no idea. I have just gone through the same process and my quotes ranged from $749 to over $2k. I don't know what the difference might be but the plan I got back was fine.

I think survey strata may be mroe suited for us as once we re-strata the lot it will create more equity for us to then get funds for building the new dwelling.

Thanks for the help. being a first timer and looking after 2 subdivisions is proving a bit of a mind mess!

It's a complicated process but I don't think having a surveyor makes it significantly less complicated. Perhaps ask your surveyors how much to lodge a survey strata plan but I would probably just lodge it myself.

 

[wrexter]

Ok, so R30 is a minimum lot size of 260m2 and an average of 300m2. You should be able to subdivide an 895m2 block into three. Of course there are complicating factors, there always are. Are you planning to retain a dwelling, or is this three blocks cleared?

There is currently a duplex with a shared wall on the property which i will be retaining both (see my thread http://somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1189353#post1189353)

I have no idea. I have just gone through the same process and my quotes ranged from $749 to over $2k. I don't know what the difference might be but the plan I got back was fine.

I think the difference is minimal too and i wouldn't think advice on subdivision would differ as they both have to work within guidelines.

It's a complicated process but I don't think having a surveyor makes it significantly less complicated. Perhaps ask your surveyors how much to lodge a survey strata plan but I would probably just lodge it myself.

I would like to lodge myself as well, mosly to save money but to also learn the process so i can be more confident doing it for future and bigger projects.


On another note, we already have conditional approval from the WAPC for a battleaxe subdivision in Riverton (Zoned R25). Retaining from property.

We engaged a a surveyor which then provided a 3 part quote:


Stage 1 ($4,350) - Already paid and complete
Drafting of the WAPC application sketch and prepare the form 1A applciation.

Stage 2 - ($2,950)
After receiving WAPC condition approval, compolete all licenced surveying and on-site pegging, draft Landgate Survey Strata Plan

Stage 3 - ($1,200)
Lodge WAPC Form 1C Application and Survey Strata Plan, all associated documents and digital files to Landgate


So from my understanding a large component of Stage 1 (~$3,050) was for the WAPC application.

To me it seems Stage 2 should be handles by the surveyor and perhaps i can carry out stage 3 myself.

Is that correct?

 

[perthguy]

So from my understanding a large component of Stage 1 (~$3,050) was for the WAPC application.

To me it seems Stage 2 should be handles by the surveyor and perhaps i can carry out stage 3 myself.

Is that correct?

Stage 1) yes, you can do yourself
Stage 2) I think stage 2 has to be the surveyor
Stage 3) No idea. I think surveyor but I could be wrong. Best to check with Landgate. I may have a contact that can advise on the WAPC side. I will let you know what I find out. I don't have a contact at landgate though. The form 1c has to be lodged at WAPC and Landgate.

In my case, my short term plan is to build 2 townhouses behind an existing house. In 10 or 15 years time, knock down the front house and build a nice new, very big house

I was thinking that survey strata would be better but I think I might go freehold for the front house. In that case if I went survey strata (first step) and freehold + survey strata (second step) I would be up for over $10k just in lodgement fees. In my case it may be better to strata first and then freehold + (strata or survey strata) later down the track.

 

[perthguy]

There is currently a duplex with a shared wall on the property which i will be retaining both (see my thread http://somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1189353#post1189353)

Ha! Remember I said there are complications?

Your potential issues are:
1. access: you will need 3 metres clear down the side with no intrusions from eaves etc. Looks like you should make that easy.
2. I think the shared wall will have to be a fire rated wall to meet building requirements. Then you will need a party wall easement on the survey strata plan. Something I ran into on one of my early properties was that there was no fire rated wall in roof cavity between my unit and the unit next door. This turned out to be an issue. I think the local council building department would be your best stop for this one.
3. parking: I think each until will require 2 car parking bays but best confirm this with council.

Apart from that I can't see any issues but it might be worth speaking to a Planner at Vic Park before you lodge your application with the WAPC. Council can actually ask for the existing houses to be upgraded in accordance with the R-Codes, so you might need to ask the Planner what sort of upgrades you would be looking at. Nice buying BTW, end values in Carlisle are pretty good right now.

 

[perthguy]

Stage 3 - ($1,200)
Lodge WAPC Form 1C Application and Survey Strata Plan, all associated documents and digital files to Landgate

To me it seems Stage 2 should be handled by the surveyor and perhaps i can carry out stage 3 myself.

Ok, so it looks like you can lodge your Form 1c, plan and clearances yourself with WAPC but your surveyor will have to lodge the digital files with Landgate. That's about as much as I could ascertain from my contact but they were not 100% on the Landgate part.

 

[wrexter]

OK thanks for looking into that PerthGuy, appreciate it.

 

[perthguy]

OK thanks for looking into that PerthGuy, appreciate it.

No worries. I will be lodging some time next year, so I am trying to learn as much about the process as I can. If you pick up any tips along the way, it would be great if you could post them!

 

[westminster]

Wrexter just popped in today to say that I'm not sure I will ever do it myself.

Stage 3 can also involve a Settlement Agent to get the titles out of Landgate and have them issued to you.

 

[perthguy]

Wrexter just popped in today to say that I'm not sure I will ever do it myself.

Stage 3 can also involve a Settlement Agent to get the titles out of Landgate and have them issued to you.

I think it will be interesting to do once. After that, I might leave it up to my surveyor!

 

[wrexter]

I guess i just wanted to know if i am paying good money for things i can easily do myself.

No point paying over $1000 for someone else to fill in a few forms and lodge?

Will post here if i find anything else.

Westminster, how have you generally gone about a subdivision process?

 

[perthguy]

I guess i just wanted to know if i am paying good money for things i can easily do myself.

No point paying over $1000 for someone else to fill in a few forms and lodge?

Will post here if i find anything else.

Westminster, how have you generally gone about a subdivision process?

I heard in January the Department of Planning is going electronic for subdivision (and survey strata) applications lodgement. I have no idea at this stage what the lodgement requirements will be but it could simplify (or complicate) the process.

 

[Scott No Mates]

I paid for the registration of an easement yesterday in NSW. Surveyor was $700 incl gst S88 & plan electronic lodgement fee about a grand.

 

[westminster]

I guess i just wanted to know if i am paying good money for things i can easily do myself.

No point paying over $1000 for someone else to fill in a few forms and lodge?

Will post here if i find anything else.

Westminster, how have you generally gone about a subdivision process?

With the ones I have done I have paid for Land Division to do the initial survey, then built strata strata plan, strata survey on completion and submission to Landgate.

Pricing has always been reasonable and I hate filling in forms AND dealing with govt departments