Sydney is turning into a ghetto as poor are trapped by fewer jobs and rising housing

Discussion in 'Property Market Economics' started by sumterrence, 11th May, 2015.

  1. Red Car

    Red Car Member

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    I think you mean around 2 hrs, from memory Town Hall to Woy Woy stations is 1.5 hrs on peak hr trains, then you have walking/ car/bus trip time at either end. About 1 hr gets you to Berowra or St Marys or Liverpool in train travel, then you add travel time at either end. Still in traffic there are folks doing nearly an hour on the bus from the Eastern Suburbs...
     
    Last edited: 16th May, 2015
  2. natedog

    natedog Member

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    Let the mass exodus from Sydney to cheaper capital cities begin!!.....hang on that happened last time....what was the next capital to boom after Sydney did last time early 2000's?....wasnt it brisvegas?
     
  3. Angel

    Angel Member

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    Bring it on! What's taking them so long.
     
  4. Shadow

    Shadow Evil Specufestor

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    Depart 8:15, Arrive 9:26. That's 1 hour and 11 minutes from Central to Woy Woy - like I said, just over an hour...

    http://www.sydneytrains.info/timetables/timetables_by_line.htm?line=nc&dir=2#landingPoint

    Walking/car/bus at either end applies anywhere in the world.

    The point is that there is affordable housing within a commutable distance to Sydney. And that's where lower paid workers can commute from if they want to buy a house. Alternatively they can rent closer to the city. That's how it works in most major cities.
     
  5. Red Car

    Red Car Member

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    So you made me check the Sydney Trains trip planner and it showed me the following from Monday morning at 6:00AM Woy Woy to Town Hall:

    Leave - Arrive - Travel Time

    6:14 - 7:35 1hr 21m
    6:32 - 7:48 1hr 16m
    6:47 - 8:03 1hr 16m
    7:02 - 8:18 1hr 16m
    7:17 - 8:33 1hr 16m
    7:32 - 8:48 1hr 16m
    7:47 - 9:03 1hr 16m
    7:56 - 9:22 1hr 26m
    7:56 - 9:34 1hr 38m
    8:26 - 10:04 1hr 38m

    It appears that they have sped up these trains in the morning from what I recall under the old timetable, the normal travel time is 1 hour 38 mins but the express trains seem to do it in 1 hour 16 mins. I would argue that 1 hr 16 is technically closer to 1 hr 30 mins than 1 hr but that would be be splitting hairs ;)

    Still that's pretty good for Sydney. The regular Berowra service in peak is 58 mins to 1 hour, and compare the prices of Berowra to the Central Coast. Something for investors to keep in mind I think. However you do have to consider the travel times at each end, I don't think you can just ignore that. That can be the breaking point in Sydney/NSW vs other International cities.
     
  6. unloadmymind

    unloadmymind Member

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    As if there are better jobs in Brisbane. Not to mention the horrible third world climate.
     
  7. jerrybee

    jerrybee Member

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    I don't believe it. 500k for TWO bedrooms in central Manhattan? Show me a *non-coop* apartment for that price. Link please. And I do stress NON-COOP! In fact I think you'd struggle to find a co-op one at that price too.

    And people not familiar with NY real estate don't realise it's an apples and oranges comparison - coop vs. condo for example. Also did you know that body corporate fees in NYC are an order of magnitude higher than they are here? People complain about 3k p/a in BC fees here, try 3k per month. And we're not talking about luxury condos either. You'll see BC fees that'll make your eyes pop out of your head. Again I'd like to see this link, I'd buy it in a heart beat if it were true.
     
    Last edited: 16th May, 2015
  8. danwatto

    danwatto and TT

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    Nothing wrong with renting..

    We love renting and our commute to work is only 5 minutes.

    When I change jobs or get sick of the area we can easily give notice and move again for minimal cost.

    There are lots of investor disadvantages to living in your own property, including lost tax deductions and lower borrowing capacity.
     
  9. windyzz

    windyzz Member

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    Agree.... renting is the best! you'll be able to live in far more expensive property when renting vs owning your own PPOR, and you're less susceptible with economy changes and interest rate.

    Typically people who can afford a more expensive houses/apartment normally prefer to buy their own place to live, hence lower demand for an expensive rental properties and caused the rental yield to drop (some to as low as 2%) which is great to rent.

    So It's no brainer rent where you want to live, and Invest your money where you can afford around the median price where rental demand is higher (mean higher yield)
     
  10. BayView

    BayView Member

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    In other words; the rent yield is cr@p and seriously cashflow neg.

    How is the investor activity in that area?
     
  11. danwatto

    danwatto and TT

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    This is certainly the situation where I live, yield would be about 3.5%

    The strata is > $2000 quarter.

    We love having the landlord pay the strata for us :)
     
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  12. windyzz

    windyzz Member

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    Yes to a certain degree if you're buying houses/Apartment over 1 mills, you'll get Really Cr@P neg cashflow. But if you buy 2 bed apartment around the west area/South West area, you can still get them between 500-550k with rent about 450-500 per week, that equates to ~4.5-4.7% gross rental yield (still reasonably good). Then you can add value by renovating and increasing those yield higher (closer to 5%). with some depreciation report, it will either neutral to positive cash flow
     
  13. Deltaberry

    Deltaberry Member

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    What's this $500k apartment you're talking about in Manhattan? You're talking about coops not condos I presume...
     
  14. jerrybee

    jerrybee Member

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    I doubt it. When I lived there 5 years ago half decent co-op 1 bedder's were already 500k. It's shot up in the last 5 years, no way you'd get anything half decent at that price.
     
  15. Gatoblanco

    Gatoblanco Member

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    Yeah not lol. It's not fair they don't pay a fair share of tax given their earnings
     
  16. Gatoblanco

    Gatoblanco Member

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    My aunt works at POW hospital. She confirmed this is a modern issue. Nurses can't afford to live any where near work. Need millions for a house in the eastern suburbs
     
  17. natedog

    natedog Member

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    Who needs a better job when you can get a house for half the price...
     
  18. jerrybee

    jerrybee Member

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    I know someone who is retired, and his wife slaves away in some menial job to get by. They said they didn't want to move to Brisbane even though they've always dreamed of it, because there aren't any jobs there. I said your house is worth $1m. You could go to Brisbane, buy three townhouses for that, and the rent from the other two townhouses would return many more times more than his wife's job.

    Suffice to say I blew his mind.
     
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  19. JDP1

    JDP1 Member

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    Yeah that's right. Australia does not have the magnitude nor quantity of income disparity per capita that other Developed countries have. For instance, I remember my plumber telling me he has 2 houses in Newmarket. Brisbane. No way a plumber will have that asset portfolio in that kind of location in a lot of other countries. Singapore included.
     
  20. JDP1

    JDP1 Member

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    Undoubtedly brisbane cannot compete with Sydney when it comes to jobs. Neither the quantity, nor salaries, nor quality of companies that hire.
    It's making progress to get there...will take many years of continuous growth to catch up to say where Melbourne is now. Sydney is in a completely different league.